oh just announced he isn't getting me anything for christmas. Again.

[dimbo]

My oh always tries to get away with not getting me presents. He doesn't save any money, or keep track of his finances in the couple of weeks before the date.

Last weekend he went to his friends for the weekend which used about £40 - £50 worth of fuel - on the pretense of delivering a mobile phone to them. I have no issue with him seeing his friends but as we are quite skint at the moment and I know I am bottom of the priority pile I did say "you know it'd only cost about £4 to post the phone down? you'll be saying you've got no money to buy me a christmas present next week" he just tried to make out I was stopping him seeing his friends which was way off the mark.

And as predicted, after a nice weekend with his friends he's just said "I have a choice between buying you a christmas present or buying food and petrol and enduring your wrath again. Great"

I feel like I'm playing cliche bingo here! I knew he'd do it! I should add that I don't expect much - a box of chocolates or a paperback book, anything like that is fine, just to say here's something that I picked out for you. (I'd also be perfectly happy or even more happy with vouchers for backrubs, or for him to cook a meal for me for once, or something else that was free, but he'd never think to do this, and if I suggested it he'd say "well now you've told me to do that it's hardly a surprise, so what's the point")

And yes we are usually skint but I've managed to save and buy him a much coveted xbox game which was £35, and I know he's going to love it as it means he can play it online with his mates so it gives them an opportunity to stay in touch more (they have headsets on and chat whilst playing)

It's christmas, it's not like they change the fucking date every year! it's not hard to keep a fiver or so back. To me it just says that he doesn't care, I'm not important, and he doesn't want the hassle of having to get me anything. If he was remotely bothered about me he would have saved something (He forgets that he comes home and tells me what he bought from starbucks or mcdonalds that day instead of taking sandwiches, despite me buying lunch ingredients in)

Also, he keeps reminding me that he he has to do secret santa for some bloke at work. It fucking sucks that he's probably going to buy some bloke he doesn't even know in a back office a christmas present, and not even get one for his own partner.

2

well done OP for starting your thread sounding ( rightly) pretty pissed off and then ending it with your own Pip Pip Xmas Happy carols.

Good luck with him If he is ever free..

um, nothing

wind up.

yes ok ok ok I am a wanker. Accepted.

Take back the game you bought him & buy yourself something nice.

He is an arse. He doesn't deserve his gift.

"...expect a present twice a year"

So you get nothing for your birthday either?

This year dh decided that we weren't going to do Valentine's day anymore. We have spoken about it many times over the years, how we feel it is a hallmark holiday, that we don't need an excuse to buy a card/gift etc.

But he didn't actually tell me until the night before that I wasn't getting a card/usual box of chocs.

I was v upset. I told him that he hurt my feelings deciding that this was how it was now & I thought we should have spoken about before stooping the cards etc. Actually, I didn't so much tell him as yell at him! I ripped his from me card up & threw it in the bin.

He came home the day after with a huge box of chocs & a huge apology. He realised that he should have talked first & was sorry to hurt my feelings. He said that even tho we had discussed it previously he should have realised that we never came to a 'no more cards on v day' pact & it was selfish of him.

It is not a communication issue that you have. Well it is...only the issue is that you are too scared to tell him how you feel about being left out of his life for fear of him getting pissed at you & moaning that you nag him.

He can drive miles to drop off a phone to his friend, but he cannot pop into a shop & get you a gift that would make you happy.

That isn't a relationship.

Although I agree that the OP has a big self esteem problem, and probably a not totally grown up dp, I also think that they have very different ideas about what presents represent. My dh has similar issues, and actually really quite dislikes presents. Which is a problem because I love presents, both the receiving and the giving. dh has said that I shouldn't give him a present and then it would be fine, but it really really wouldn't, because then I would be doubly sad.

In my family we do lists and make sure that presents bought/made are something that we know will be wanted. We don't do Christmas is for children (in fact my mother generally is given more presents that anyone else) and there is lots of giving and receiving and hugging going on. It has it's stresses of course (my dear parents drive me around the bend frequently and vice versa).

dh's family do the lots of stuff thing, don't ask in advance and often give each other crap. dh once bought his presents from a pound store equivalent and said that they wouldn't notice! I find it really upsetting. dh as a child as frequently told by his big sisters that he was spoiled by getting big presents (his parents did quite well so there was more money), and that has clearly affected his world view.

So we didn't start from a very good base, and I've had a few really sad birthdays (less so at Christmas). In the end we just talked it through. Now I give him useful things (socks, muffin tins etc) and one thing he wants (although he will insist he doesn't need it) just because I want to. This year he has no money (SAHD) so I will give him a fairly decent chunk of cash for "presents to me from the children" and not expect any change, so that he can buy me something too. I'll give him some small but nice ideas (for the children).

Sometimes I think you have to lay your cards down on the table, and be really clear what makes you happy/unhappy, but it does require a bit of exploring as to why you have got into the position you are in, which is possibly mainly about childhood experiences for both of you. Let him know how great the box of chocolates he gave you that year was to you (pity your brother overshadowed that, although he sounds lovely). The other thing I would start planning is to have Christmas somewhere other than at his mums. It sounds really grim to me.

For your self esteem side, could you think about what you are good at/like about yourself, write it down and stick it up somewhere where you will see it (but possibly not anyone else)? At my work someone has written "you are beautiful" on a post-it on the mirror, and someone else has written "so are you" underneath, and it always makes me smile (I'm not beautiful btw!)

If your ds is old enough to do one of those "I love you mum" / "you are the best mummy in the world" type pictures that's also a good boost to have somewhere prominently displayed. Other things that can help improve mood are taking more exercise (even if it's just a walk ever day), or thinking about something you'd like to improve about yourself and taking some baby steps towards it (education is a good one if you don't feel that you are very bright - lots of courses available often free or very cheap from local colleges, or online or even just reading books from the library on things you've always wanted to know about - I'm just guessing you might feel that way from your user name. If you have a PhD please forgive me ).

Anyway a few ideas that might or might not be useful and I hope your Christmas is a better one this year.

OK, I came in on this thread in aggressive mode on the basis of very little info... I think what the OP is doing re the token is very well done. Most men really are human beings (!) and can be trained into more positive habits. However, if the OH doesn't step up to the plate after being given a very broad hint and the actual money it is possible he really is an arse rather than someone who has a different attitude (due to crap upbringing by the sound of it).

Lovely post btw Nooka.

Ok I know some of you won't be very happy with my decision but I have decided to try and give him the benefit of the doubt and the chance to act like a decent bloke. I have a boots gift card that I was saving, and a few other bits of saved money which will total about £15 (I might bump it up to £20) - I just said to him "Look I know you're worried about money and I know you'd feel really utterly shit if you couldn't buy me a present this year, you know, as nobody else will be, so have this gift card and use it to get me something nice from boots"

OP,

You dig your hole you have helped dig yourself even deeper if you actually go ahead and do this for him. Think again!. This action again shows an overall complete lack of self worth and esteem on your part. This shows you caving into him, as long as he's alright you think its okay, well till the next time. You ignore the ongoing issues (and I think the lack of present giving on his part is just the tip of a very big iceberg full of problems) with him at your emotional cost. Is he really worth it, I would have to say no.

OP as well, NOTHING will change for you unless you start to make small but sure changes for your own self. Changing how you react towards your manchild would be a start. You will be again writing the same next year if you do not make changes now. Is that what you really want for both your children, this is no legacy to leave them.

You learnt poor relationship examples from your parents and now you're basically replaying out this history through your manchild. There is no physical abuse but there is emotional cruelty here, not just to say financial control on his part. Would you actually deny otherwise?.

this what I do for my 8yo son

I give him the money, I give him the means, I virtually enable him to the point of buying a present myself

did ya see the clue there ?

he is 8

"Look I know you're worried about money and I know you'd feel really utterly shit if you couldn't buy me a present this year."

It's still all about him, isn't it? You're doing this so he won't feel bad. The thing is, he doesn't feel bad about it. He quite clearly couldn't give a shit.

Please stop facilitating him in treating you with no regard at all.

and, btw, there is NO point in wasting £35 by destroying the present you have bought him - just put it back on ebay. Might as well reclaim your losses.

I wouldn't do the Boots card thing either - ok, it's making him do the legwork but it is saying "it's all right, you don't have to waster YOUR money on me, use someone else's gift instead".

I find it rather sad that, if he does go to all the effort of spending someone else's gift card on you after you've done all the work by giving him a list, you'll be dancing around in gratitude that it's a sign that he loves you.

Please love yourself.

Dimbo you are just enabling to carry on being a complete childish twat. Wht should you give him your boots voucher? He will end up buying lynx deodorant and a box of sweets for himself, like the big kid he is.

Sod him. Sell the game at a pawn shop. Don't wrap him a present. If he starts say well where's my present then?

But I somehow don't think you will do this

Lizzy - do not call yourself a minger

expat

Re your earlier comment. I wholeheartedly agree.
The men in my house (DH and DS1 ) have been lectured told very clearly that their job with DD is to do as I do which is treat her rationally but endlessly remind her how loved she is, how precious and that being with her and having her love is important. That isn't affected by how she looks or her successes and failure but because she is a good and kind person and we love her.

I want her to go into the world knowing what a kind and caring man looks like, how he sounds, how he treats her, so that that will be her standard and she will disbeliebe anyone who tries to tell her she has no value.

I hate that women grow up accepting that men will treat them in a way that they would never treat their friends. So miserably sad

if she can spell that would be great too

OP, my advice was going to be to say to him:

"OK, so have you decided that we're not getting presents for each other this year?"

Him: "Uhhh???"

You: "Well you said you weren't getting me a present. So I'll put your one back on Ebay then, OK?"

Him: bluster bluster

You; "We either do presents or we don't. I thought you'd decided we don't."

Then keep your present for him hidden, if he does manage to produce something for you, give it to him. If not - back to ebay with it in the new year.

I thought that was a rather good passive-agressive strategy.

But I see you have decided to buy your own present , which is known as the martyr strategy, I think.

The thing with enablers is, at some level, their enabling is working for them or they wouldn't do it.

Dr Phil was right, 'People do what works.'

Now you're just deliberately being a martyr, dim.

What do you get out of it? Must be something.

But whatever it is, I'll do my best to ensure my children don't put up with abuse just to get it.

This whole thread makes me feel very sad. Different if, like some people have said, they agree not to buy for each other and both happy with that. I LOVE buying for others or doing a nice act (do not believe it has to always be about spending money)but i enjoy thinking about what (let's just keep this to DH seeing as this is the issue) I can get him, what he will love, the thoughts etc. My Dh is from a family that do not make an issue out of giving, and my family have never spent a lot of money at all, but interestingly, DH is also loving thinking about what he will get and so very very thoughtful. Even if he just said to me I swill cook for the next week/fortnight etc...whatever, just thinking enough about that person........it doesn't sound like he is able to think about other people, or you specifically.

I don't know about this martyr thing you know. On a very basic level I'm thinking that it will be sad christmas day for me if I get absolutely fuck all after I've gone to the effort of buying and making gifts for everyone else, so I've sorted it so I will in fact get a gift or two that I like so I'm not miserable (and likely to be in a shitty mood all day, thus proving to all his family that I am in fact a horrible moody cow)

Yes it's not as romantic as if he went out and did it off his own back but he's not a romantic man, and he's not all that practical either - apparently when I said to him last week that the mobile phone would only cost £4 to send, and he'd be moaning that he had no money to buy me a christmas present next week, I also said "By the way I've spent £35 on yours"

My meaning: So you do need to actually save some money and get me something, I haven't just got you a token gift.
Man translation: YOU MUST SPEND £35 OR MORE ON ME OR DIE!

So he says that's why he said he couldn't get me anything (I'm not thick, I maintain the opinion that he would prefer not to have to make an effort at all, for anyone)

Buying your own christmas present rather than insisting that your OH makes an effort to buy you one is definitely martyrdom.

By clam Tue 08-Dec-09 09:04:06
"Look I know you're worried about money and I know you'd feel really utterly shit if you couldn't buy me a present this year."

It's still all about him, isn't it? You're doing this so he won't feel bad. The thing is, he doesn't feel bad about it. He quite clearly couldn't give a shit.

No, no, you misunderstood. I know he doesn't feel that bad about it. On the day I'd get a sad little smile and a squeeze and he'd say sorry, but I doubt he'd feel genuinely bad that he hadn't got me anything because buying other people presents just isn't something he gets anything out of. I said that he'd feel really utterly shit because he bloody well should. He should understand that everybody else in the world gets a kick out of pleasing people with gifts.

By GetOrfMoiLand Tue 08-Dec-09 09:48:17
He will end up buying lynx deodorant and a box of sweets for himself, like the big kid he is.

No he wouldn't. He wouldn't dream of using that money on himself, it's my money. And anyway even at the best of times he never buys anything for himself. He always asks if we're out shopping and he needs razors or deodorant even, I tell him not to ask!

Attila, I don't believe there is any financial control. Things are very tight right now which means both of us have to watch what we spend, but if we weren't so skint I doubt he'd stop me spending unless I was out of control!

Nooka, thankfully I don't feel stupid and I do have a degree (not a phD!) dimbo is just a silly nickname. I hate all that positive affirmation crap, I'm naturally a grumbly self-deprecating Brit, I'm not going to start getting up in the morning and telling myself I'm stunning because it's a lie. You all know those ugly blokes in clubs who go round thinking they're god's gift when really they look like Alexei Sayle's dad? Well you wouldn't want me to go round thinking I was hot stuff only for everyone to laugh at me would you?

This is the kind of thing I used to get all the time (poor lady) but I find that now I dress down and am behind a pushchair I'm invisible enough to live my life without the daily dose of random abuse and that's good enough for me, don't want to start trying to be something I'm not. Anyway I'm digressing.

Dandylioness, I said those things. If my oh called me a minger then I wouldn't be in a relationship with him. He would never put me down about my appearance or intelligence, that's one of the reasons why I love him, and why I'm saying he's a good person.

So he only buys presents if he happens to have money lying around? Has no concept of saving up, or that if you buy one thing you then cannot buy another?

Personally I wouldn't be in a relationship with someone who was that bad with money.

Or I would at least want to be in control of the family finances, and then give him back half of the spare for his 'pocket money'. (note half, I would have the other half of the leftover cash for my soending money)

This thread is making me sad. OP, all men are not like your OH, nothing close. Yes, they're not perfect, but some of them do actually behave like responsible adults.

Every single example you have given about how he behaves with money is how I would expect a child to behave, not an adult. Every single example.

I would be very careful having children with this man, as you will essentially be a single parent with an extra child.