oh just announced he isn't getting me anything for christmas. Again.

[dimbo]

My oh always tries to get away with not getting me presents. He doesn't save any money, or keep track of his finances in the couple of weeks before the date.

Last weekend he went to his friends for the weekend which used about £40 - £50 worth of fuel - on the pretense of delivering a mobile phone to them. I have no issue with him seeing his friends but as we are quite skint at the moment and I know I am bottom of the priority pile I did say "you know it'd only cost about £4 to post the phone down? you'll be saying you've got no money to buy me a christmas present next week" he just tried to make out I was stopping him seeing his friends which was way off the mark.

And as predicted, after a nice weekend with his friends he's just said "I have a choice between buying you a christmas present or buying food and petrol and enduring your wrath again. Great"

I feel like I'm playing cliche bingo here! I knew he'd do it! I should add that I don't expect much - a box of chocolates or a paperback book, anything like that is fine, just to say here's something that I picked out for you. (I'd also be perfectly happy or even more happy with vouchers for backrubs, or for him to cook a meal for me for once, or something else that was free, but he'd never think to do this, and if I suggested it he'd say "well now you've told me to do that it's hardly a surprise, so what's the point")

And yes we are usually skint but I've managed to save and buy him a much coveted xbox game which was £35, and I know he's going to love it as it means he can play it online with his mates so it gives them an opportunity to stay in touch more (they have headsets on and chat whilst playing)

It's christmas, it's not like they change the fucking date every year! it's not hard to keep a fiver or so back. To me it just says that he doesn't care, I'm not important, and he doesn't want the hassle of having to get me anything. If he was remotely bothered about me he would have saved something (He forgets that he comes home and tells me what he bought from starbucks or mcdonalds that day instead of taking sandwiches, despite me buying lunch ingredients in)

Also, he keeps reminding me that he he has to do secret santa for some bloke at work. It fucking sucks that he's probably going to buy some bloke he doesn't even know in a back office a christmas present, and not even get one for his own partner.

[Anniegetyourgun]

I actually disagree here with a lot of people I usually agree with. Not that they're wrong exactly; but I think you are starting from the assumption of how a relationship SHOULD be, not how it is, and demanding a quick fix. I believe what the OP has done to nudge the OH in the right direction is a first step in the right direction. She's clearly an intelligent person who is currently suffering from major self-esteem issues, but she lives with the guy and we don't, so she's got to play things the way she believes will work.

OK, most 8-year-olds should already have got the message that it is nearly as good to give as to receive (I never bought that "better" line myself!), but a (nominal) grown-up may need retraining from scratch if they've had a horrible family example through their formative years. Call it an ice-breaker if you like, an introduction to the whole presents between partners thing, which it seems he doesn't quite get (and I have the impression she has previously seethed in silence instead of spelling it out to him that it does matter). Look: wife, present. Wife, present. Buy present, give to wife. Good boy! He's not being asked to provide money but he is being asked to put a wee bit of effort in, so here's his chance to do that bit and hopefully move on to better things in time for her birthday.

Of course if he still can't be arsed to take the last little action of actually buying the present after it's practically been done for him, I will join whole-heartedly in the chorus that declares him a prize twunt.

[PandaEis]

my sentiments EXACTLY annie

if he has gone through his younger years never having to buy presents but always expecting to recieve them it is going to take more than hints to "reprogramme" how he thinks about gift giving.

my DH was given all he asked for as a child and was asked for nothing (not even good behaviour) in return. he still thinks gift giving is a waste of time (spent buying gifts) and money. he, however doesnt mind getting presents. there has been a few christmasses and birthdays that left me feeling deflated, disappointed and unappreciated. i, myself am not one to suffer in silence so i made my feelings VERY clear and he is learning (gradually) how to be more thoughtful. for example this year, to avoid any christmas day disappointment, i have told him EXACTLY what i want and he knows where to buy it and how much it will cost. this is not to spare him, it is to ensure that i dont feel the need again to have a nag about his gift buying abilities

i think that if in ALL other areas a person is good, kind, loving etc then the matter of not knowing/not remembering when it comes to gifts really isnt something to end an otherwise good relationship.

[cheerfulvicky]

My partner is a bit like this, he never bothers to get anything for his mother for her birthday, but she always gets something for him. I think they've always done things that way. When I suggested one year that perhaps she would like a gift, he said that she'd 'probably have a heart attack' if he bought her something now, breaking the tradition of a lifetime.
For him though, the mentality is that he's not that bothered about the gifts he receives, so he's a little different in that respect. He then assumes everyone is the same as him, they'd rather if he didn't bother, as opposed to finding out whether that's actually true and they would quite like a card/pressie/whatever.

He is lousy with cards and things as he doesn't see the point in them, so I have got used to enjoying the thoughtful little things he does do for me, the little random gifts that he thought I would enjoy or find useful. Even if I rarely get a card from him at any point during the year He is quite selfish but he knows what is and isn't okay and what is sometimes required, so we generally get along okay.

OP, I wouldn't give your man a Christmas gift. Not saying he wouldn't enjoy it, he probably would, but that's not really the point is it? He hasn't spent much time or effort thinking of you, and sounds a bit of a child. In my (limited) experience, these sort of men ARE a bit childish but are certainly not stupid, so a big wake up call like threatening to leave them (or taking the child and leaving for a while, as in my case) can work wonders at motivating them. Some people just try it on all the time, they will milk you for as much as you are prepared to give them and happily not give anything back. If you help them to do that by playing the game, it will go on ad infinitum. So you have to spell out what isn't acceptable (a bit like supernanny ) until they get it. Let them know what the consequences will be. Blokes are simple souls, not all bloody complicated like women.

That said, my partner is pleasant and respectful in other areas of life. He cooks the dinner, does some housework, remembers to ask me about my day, blah de blah. If your man is selfish in ALL areas, not just gift buying, then sadly you have picked a wanker, he will not change and you need to rethink your future.
Best of luck

[piratecat]

wood and trees.

I am that you, op just cannot see how mean, childlike and crap he is. It's Christmas, you are pg.

Absolutely ridiculous sitiation.

[dimbo]

Thanks for all your posts as ever, you've said some really insightful things and I admire so many of you for your strength and no nonsense approach.

Annie and Panda thanks for seeing the other side too. I love him and I believe he deserves to be given the chance to do the right thing. If after being given that chance he still lets me down then I will feel justified in punching him in the plums having a big go at him and not bothering buying him a present for his birthday a few weeks away.

[Hullygully]

I have only read the first page, but I just want to know why anyone would put up with total and utter shit?

I know, why not lie on the ground and invite everyone to use you as a rug? Just to make things really clear.

[IsItMeOr]

Annie and Panda I do hope you're right.

I'd feel more inclined to believe it if the OP could give a concrete, specific, example the apparently many fantastic things that OH does for her (as she has done for the rubbish things).

[tiredoftherain]

dimbo, I wonder if your experience of the men close to you has largely been with grade 10 twunts who are violent and abusive. So because your OH is behaving like, say, a grade 6 twunt, maybe he seems much better in comparision.. And really what you need is someone who doesn't actually score at all on the twunt scale. They do exist.

The big point being missed in you funding your own Xmas present is that your OH has so clearly and overtly prioritised his own needs over yours (spending far more on fuel to visit his friends) and you're totally condoning it. What incentive does he possibly have to change his ways? You're totally reinforcing his bad behaviour I'm afraid.

[mmrred]

Some people GENUINELY don't like the commercialism of Christmas/valentines/whatever. One of my friends DH's is like that, he's very religious and asks every year that we spend any money THAT WE WOULD SPEND ON HIM on Oxfam or other charities. He and my friend often agree on joint presents to each other (and this year, dear God, it is going to be chickens) now I know she would rather have a big bag of Clinique and I took her out for a Christmas Spa date because I love her...but I can absolutely respect his moral position. (Even though I do think the odd lip gloss wouldn't upset God, ya'know?)

However, this is not the case here. In fact the whole thread hinges on the first post.

"To me it just says that he doesn't care, I'm not important, and he doesn't want the hassle of having to get me anything."

That's right. Now what?

[dimbo]

Just out of interest, what would you all think if someone wrote on AIBU:

Am I being unreasonable... to kick the father of my children out two weeks before christmas because he said he has no money to buy me a present?



I'm inclined to think you'd think she was a spoilt kneejerk bitch, and I'm none of those things, which is why I'm not going to break up a relationship and deprive two children of their father just because he's crap at presents. I'm crap at ironing and I snore, should he get rid?

For what it's worth I really think there aren't any perfect men out there, and if there are they're certainly not going to go wasting their relationship talents on someone like me, that's for sure!

[BitOfFun]

There you go again with the self-deprecation.

There is no way my partner would spend forty quid on visiting his mates and then moan he was skint, just before Christmas shopping season comes around. He's not unusual, honestly.

[nooka]

dimbo why are you so insistent that you are worthless? I'm sure you have plenty of good points (apart from people who are really unpleasant in themselves I've yet to meet anyone who didn't have some good points). So what if you are not stunning (most people aren't). But that doesn't mean that you aren't special in some way. Maybe it is "British" to be self depreciating, but knowing your own worth is a good thing if you do it honestly. I've been on a few threads for women whose partners have walked out on them/had affairs (I have some personal experience in this department), and one of the really important things that they/we often have to learn to do is rebuild their confidence in themselves as good, worthwhile and lovable. It might be a terrible cliche, and I am sure that you don't want to hear it but you do have to love (and like) yourself in order to be happy. Suffering in silence, or with the occasional snap is not going to fix anything for you, I am afraid you will just get more angry and bitter and sure that really and truly the reason why your dh doesn't buy you presents/prioritise you is because he knows that you aren't worth it. Which is almost certainly not the case at all.

I suspect that the reason he doesn't buy you presents is a range of reasons along the lines of he doesn't think he is any good at presents; all presents are crap really; he is a bit of a lazy bugger and he has always gotten away with it before.

[ZacharyQuack]

Agelesslove - there's a place on Mumsnet for advertising, and it ain't here.

[tamm26]

hey ..all is not lost and you are gonna have a baby and christmas in the future will be different ..its a good time to get it right as i do find myself thinking about the last christmas before chilldren....and it wasnt great but ..

how about telling him what to get !!! and when to get it. hey even choose something when you are standing in a shop and you know he has a fiver in his pocket ...oh you could get that ..for me ...NOW. er i know it sounds boring but could be a saving grace as in the future you may be real unhappy when he either doesnt buy your child "a present" or worst still buys loads of stuff and still forgets about you !! so chirpy face and eye contact .."ah i have an idea" make it simple obviously....did you get it yet? have you wrapped it? or buy it this week wrap it next week...please have it for when we get up ...and then say ...thank you thank you ..you did so well ...ah ...yes like a child in training ..you can tweek it over the years ...but hey lets make it easy dont fight about it just sound all excited.....

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

OP

This goes far beyond a lack of present giving on his part, that is the tip of a very big iceberg.

One day that hole you dug for your own self, y'know the one that you grow flowers in (your comments putting your own self down show you have no self esteem or self worth whatsoever) is going to be gaping. Its a fair size now.

You talk about deprieving two children of a father; well he may be a "good dad" in your eyes but he is clearly treating you with no respect whatsoever. Can you not see the contradiction here?.

You had and saw an extremely poor male role
model for a Dad as a child and a Mother who stayed with a violent man. This has profoundly affected you in more ways than you can imagine. You are repeating history here, you've found yet another male loser in life. He hit paydirt when he met you, you're a gift to someone as fundamentally selfish and irresponsible as he is. I sincerely hope you do get that appt soon (this is why I originally suggested the BACP as you would get seen sooner than waiting more months on the NHS). I suppose too your manchild thinks counselling is a waste of time.

Tiredoftherain is bang on here when writing this comment:-

"The big point being missed in you funding your own Xmas present is that your OH has so clearly and overtly prioritised his own needs over yours (spending far more on fuel to visit his friends) and you're totally condoning it. What incentive does he possibly have to change his ways? You're totally reinforcing his bad behaviour I'm afraid".

You keep digging your own hole by doing what you are doing. This also teaches your children damaging lessons in the process.

[QueenOfHearts22]

I'm going to get shot down for this so I apologise in advance.

I feel that you KNOW you are being ridiculous with all the self put-downs, but you continue to post them because...well I don't know why.

STOP IT. Pull yourself together, you are a human, you are not in jail for some horrible crime against humanity, you sound fairly normal and nice, and are therefore, deserving of love. It is ridiculous to keep on with the self-pitying 'why should anyone love me' comments, as they are just not true.

I know I sound totally harsh, but it's like the size 8 girls who moan about their bum looking too big. Stop! You deserve to be loved, and if you are not being loved in the way you want, you deserve to find out why and correct it.

Your DC are going to learn this from you, to have no self confidence and to let people walk all over them. That is not good.

What's done is done and you have given him some pocket money to buy your present. Fair enough. But please have the conversation anyway. Please just calmly explain to him that this is a special occasion when everyone in the family deserves a little happiness, and that, as you have a gift for him, you expect something in return in future.

You are not asking too much, it could even be that he cooks dinner for you with a few candles, whatever, but he needs to show his affection. That is what (the majority) of people need.

If he gives you more excuses then I am sorry but you are allowing him to behave selfishly and are giving a VERY bad influence for your DC

[piratecat]

what queen said.

------

[Buda]

I think that expecting the OP to kick her OH out 2 weeks before Xmas when she is PG is a bit unrealistic tbh!

I also don't think she would get much sympathy from legal profession/police should they become involved/friends/family etc if she gave the reason as not getting a Xmas present!

Obviously this is much much more than not getting a Xmas present. But given that the OP has lived with this for some time you can't expect her to end her relationship having not given her OH a chance to change. Putting that amount of pressure on someone is wholly unfair.

The OP has has lots of advice on this thread about how she should expect to be treated. I agree that she has low self esteem and that this needs addressing.

OP - you are worth much more than you think. Concentrate on that for a while. Try and get hold of some books on self esteem etc - I am sure you could get them from a library. Push for your counselling appointment. And TALK to your OH. TELL him that the fact that he is not bothered about putting in a little effort for you makes you feel worthless. Tell him the reasons you bought his present - because you think he is a good Dad and person and you wanted him to feel valued and be able to have some fun with his mates. Make him think about it. From the sounds of his background he has never had to think about stuff like that.

Ask him what he wants for his children growing up. Tell him what you want for them. Spell out to him that even a bar of chocolate and a card would show he cared. Encouraging your children to make a card and get mummy a present would show he cared.

I think he has never had to think of others or been taught to and whilst that is wrong, it sounds like his background is as much to blame as yours is for your self-esteem issues.

You can use this as a way to change both of you. And I really hope you do. For you DO deserve much more. And so do your children. They deserve a mummy who believes in herself and doesn't stand for any shit! They need you to love yourself so that you can be a better mummy and teach them to love and respect themselves. And maybe even teach your OH the same.

[IsItMeOr]

dimbo I have a spare copy of this book which I am very happy to post to you as a christmas gift if you will message me your address.

I suspect you will find it challenging (I did), and will be annoyed by its American-ness (I was) and also be stunned that this person (the author) who has never met you knows you so well.

And yes, he will tell you to do some affirmations .

[cory]

I agree that kicking someone out because he has cocked up over Christmas presents seems a bit extreme. Otoh suffering in silence doesn't really make for a very good Christmas experience either.

I still cringe at the memory of my mother's 50th. My Dad is a wonderful loving person, and has been a great husband to her but there is no denying that he cocked up badly on that occasion. It's a BIG thing in their culture, one of the big life events, not quite on a par with a wedding, but definitely bigger than say an 18th. And money was tight, and he hadn't given any thought to a present. I don't know why tbh- her teenage children had managed to get organised and get a present arranged- but he hadn't; it seems the combination of big expectations and no money made him act like a rabbit caught in the headlights. He turned up at her bedside with a vague promise of something nice later on (30 years later, I still don't think that something nice has materialised). Cue: mother sobbing forlornly in bed to the embarrassment and concealed irritation of her children. Not a day we can look back on with any kind of pleasure.

I have often thought of it since and wondered what could have been done to save the whole thing (and no, divorce hasn't been one of my thoughts). Imo things could have been done at various stages to save the whole thing.

First, obviously he should have thought about the whole thing a bit earlier. He should have saved up for something, however small.

Secondly, when the day came and he hadn't, he could have done some quick thinking. Written her a nice voucher for something that would happen in the summer, to give him time to save up.

And thirdly, if he hadn't done anything and proved incapable of quick thinking (tbh he's not the quickest thinker on the planet), then she could have taken command. 'Well dear, I understand things are tight, but I find I actually do need a present to feel good about today, so this is how I would like you to do it.' And then suggesting something that didn't cost money/could be saved up for, anything that would have made that day a bit more bearable. Not anybody's ideal solution, of course, but better than letting it fester- as it did for a long time.

[cory]

I think as children, our suspicions were that she actually wanted to feel a bit martyred at this stage. Understandable of course- he had messed up, she was hard done by- but also very unproductive. We wanted to see a big strong clever mummy who got out of bed and made people do whatever she needed to feel good about herself.

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]