How to make DH accept his words are hurting me

[ringingthechanges]

without him chucking them back in my face and saying I am the problem and I'm nuts?

wow

I do not understand why anyone would be cruel...and to their family??????

Words fail me.

Oh hanaflower, I do feel for you, maybe we can support each other. Having spent a lot of time thinking about these various responses I too remembered that DHs mother abandoned him too, I never really saw the connection. Will be back later, I have o go out thanks everyone

Cargirl, yes, as I do not WANT to leave, I think a different approach is the right thing to do, it will be the final thing I do before I give up forever. I will place more focus on him instead of myself and see what happens then. I know he feels unappreciated (BTW I do appreciate all he does) so by focusing on him hopefully he will feel better. I always wear my heart on my sleeve and there is no mistaking how I feel so it will be hard but I am prepared to give it a go.

WWIFN - We went to relate a few years ago and after 3 sessions he decided we didn't need anyone advising us how to treat each other so that was abandoned.

Mathanxiety - I agree with all you say, yes you are right. But why is it so hard for me to turn my back on him.

It must be hard to beleive to everyone who is reading this, but DH is basically a very good person. He firmly believes he is in the right all the time and our problems are created by me. This of course is very unfair we all know that. I do beleive that having had PND and was on ADs for a few years totally wrecked anything we had between us and yes I feel he has never accepted I had PND. He used to say it was an excuse. I also raised 2 DC alone with zero family around and he was working 12hr days. None of this has anything to do with houses, wealth, anything else. I just want to be treated as a wife and mother of his children. Therein lies the problem, for wahtever reason he thinks I have nothing to complain of and don't even loive in the 'real world' - its the one he put me in!

I'm here if you ever want to vent, perhaps start a new thread. Seriously though I would book relate and go alone to start with and perhaps in the near future he will go with you. If he's happy to go out with you perhaps do its lots lots more so you have to interact with each other and find mutual things to make conversation about rather than sitting in your seperate rooms at home?

On the very surface it does seem as though he is punishing you for "abdoning" him emotionally and attack is the best form of defence.

I really hope that you can change things and reach out to him and he finally lets the facade down. Please also start respecting yourself and stand up for yourself perhaps in a different way than you've done recently.

You know when you have been very badly hurt by your parents and then someone else does it to sometimes cutting all your emotions off is your only way of surviving, been there and done that and it is a very long and painful journey back to allowing yourself to really love other people again....wanting to is the first step and if he isn't perpared to do that then he never will change IMO.

Are you still taking ADs - i ask as you do come over as depressed?

Are you still taking ADs - i ask as you do come over as depressed?

no podrick, i stopped 4 or 5 yrs ago and i am not depressed

You sound like you are trapped in a cage that you have created yourself - I don't see that your dh has created it at all and that is why I say that I think you are depressed.

I agree that you can only change yourself. You say that "It must be hard to beleive to everyone who is reading this, but DH is basically a very good person" - but you are in a toxic relationship with him, and seemingly extremely isolated in the relationship as well. Whether your dh is or isn't "basically a very good person" (and you have not done much to substantiate this view on the thread so far) - this matters not much to your situation in my view.

I think you are frightened to take responsibility for your own life and happiness and are hiding from this by supposedly trying to "fix" your dh.

Sorry if this seems harsh but in my view it is you that needs fixing the most and not your dh - and it is pretty clear he is not about to give you any support. Is there nothing that would ever give you cause to leave?

As a general point, I know of several men whose mothers left - and every single one of them is an emotionally retarded adult, resulting in poor quality relationships with women, a tendency for inflicting pain on said women, poor relationships with their daughters and zero emotional intelligence.

It's almost as though they have no "female" side at all to them. I've noticed with these men that they are at their happiest when in the company of other men - and feel quite threatened by intelligent, assertive females - almost as though it forces them to challenge their mindset that women are not really worthy of respect.

Whilst I profoundly agree that as sentient adults, we can choose how to behave and many people consciously reject the behaviours we saw in our parents and vow never to replicate their mistakes, to make that vow means actually acknowledging that there is a risk of replication.

I often think it's different for some men.

They tend not to even acknowledge the mother separation as being the root cause of their behaviour. The only females they are close to are romantic partners and since they are women, their opinions don't count.

They value men's opinions above all else. They don't talk about emotions and feelings and surround themselves with the type of men who are equally emotionally retarded, if not for different reasons. Consequently, no man in their life has ever gently pointed out to them that their behaviour might be rooted in childhood distress. They wouldn't ever make friends with such a man anyway - and he would be regarded suspiciously by emotionally retarded men and their cronies.

The only thing than can break the cycle for those men is some really fantastic counselling, with an emotionally intelligent male counsellor. This can produce fantastic results, but of course trying to get men like this to a counsellor is akin to achieving world peace.

Ring any bells OP? Worth a try?

And incidentally, just because Relate didn't work out 4 years ago, it doesn't mean you can't try counselling again - wonder whether it was a female counsellor and therefore judged to be not worthy of respect by your H?

Relate aren't the only counselling organisation either. There are some marvellous private practioners. And if he won't go, there's nothing to stop you going.

Please don't dismiss counselling out of hand - if you've decided to stay in this marriage, I think your mental health depends on it.

WWIFN - I would dearly love DH to go for counselling as I think he has many 'hidden' insecurities' but it would never happen in 100 years. We went to relate (to placate me only) and he was not interested, she was a woman.

I have seen counsellors on and off over the years (believe it or not) and have just finished seeing one infact. In the past when I have told him I had been seeing someone, he sneered and said 'ha what good did it do you?' Sadly, even as I am writing this I can see I am fighting a losing cause. My present counsellor has the opinion, based on what I have told him, that DH is childish and controlling. DHs uncle told me that dh is like his father and grandfather. Emotionally retarded sums him up really. Last night he saw the newspaper property pages on the table and asked was I moving, it was said in a joking manner in front of my friend. Yes Podrick, I have sort of 'allowed' this situation to evolve whilst I have been busy raising my DC and neglecting DH but I am in no means trapped in a cage or depressed. Yes I am afraid to leave, it would break my heart. Even more than now.

What's he like with your daughter?

The word that springs to mind is 'fine'. Not outwardly loving as such but then he is not with anyone. He doesnt do much with her as she is a non sporty teen and he only ever asks her to play in garden with brother.

Okay, two points:

Could DH's uncle become that emotionally intelligent male I referred to? Would DH listen to him? Would the uncle be prepared to do it?

I'm sorry, but I'm going to appeal to your mothering instincts here. We've established now that the reason you're staying with your H is for your own sake. That's honest - and would be fine to the extent that as an adult, you can make choices and therefore suffer the consequences.

But your kids have got no choices. It really harms children to grow up with an emotionally retarded parent, a tense atmosphere at home and all this unhappiness.

Could you put your own need for your H to one side and do the right thing by your children?

I fear the consequences of you staying are that H will not change, your children will leave home as soon as they can and will go on to form very unsatisfactory relationships themselves. Your daughter in particular is likely to be a needy sort who is constantly trying to get men to love her, or worse still, the sort of woman who hurts other women (the perennial OW). Your son is likely to treat women in the way he's seen his father behave.

I couldn't live with that prospect. How about you?

I hear you loud and clear WWIFN and I hope and pray I am not being ignorant here but my DC are so so very different to DH. Totally grounded, respectful, loving individuals. DHs uncle is far too old to 'have a chat' and was not that respectful to his wife when she was alive actually. Not sure how I have given the impression I am staying soley for my sake. DC would be destroyed if I took them away and likewise it would destroy DH. I stay because I do not want any of them hurt, my feelings and happiness on on the back burner and I am trying to deal with them.

Whether you like it or not OP you are teaching your dcs how to be treated and how to treat others. We all turn into our parents and it is not by accident.

yes you are right, the longer I stay on mumsnet the closer I am getting to having the ultimate talk

You know what's right for you OP. We all do, none of live with perfect spouses. It's what you're willing to put up with and what's the cost to you by staying with him.

I'm sorry that I do agree staying it that marriage will have more of a negaitve impact on your dc if your dh refuses to change than leaving will.

Perhaps the big talk needs to be very thought through because you need to stay focused on the real issues

erm off the top of my head

• he has emotionally cut himself off from you

• this is key to all of it really isn't it?

• you are not respected as an equal in the marriage (decisions are not joint ones)

• you are not prepared to be controlled by him financially (what other means does he use to control you)

• you are not prepared to be called by insulting names anymore as if you don't have feelings.

It would be great if you can find a male relationship counsellor and make an appointment with him and tell your dh is places any value on you as an individual or your marriage then he needs to come?

Do you think he would be horrified at the thought of being divorced because of his social status?

OK RTC, if you really aren't depressed then I think you are definitely getting some things that are important to you from this relationship as it stands - security, status, sympathy from others and someone else to take responsibility for you and make decisions for you in many areas of your life. I think you are valuing these things more highly then you value having healthy relationships but that is your choice.

Others have warned you that you model unhealthy relationships for your children at a cost to them and I would agree. Your children will grow up thinkng your relationship with your dh is normal and will almost certainly copy it or at least use it as a reference point for what is normal.

I don't see you as a passive victim here, I think you are actively choosing to maintain the status quo because of what you get from the situation - you may not think it is perfect but it satisfies a lot of what you really hold to be important. FWIW I don't think your dh would be devastated if you leave as long as you make the effort to stay on reasonable terms and to let him see the kids. Your home doesn't sound like a happy home so although the kids may be upset at first by a split, by the sounds of it you will still be comfortable financially and I would expect that both you and your dh would both be happier - he's not exactly happy now, is he?

You are stuck in this relationship and I think you need to reframe what is going on in order to move forward which is why I am being a bit blunt.

If you are going to stay then be honest with yourself about why you are staying and then maybe you will be able to acknowledge that the situation does work for you pretty well on the whole at the moment - and then you can start to feel more happy and satisfied with your life.

No Cargirl, I don't think he would be horrified to be divorced. He doesn't care what anyone else thinks about him at all, he never has. He is so self sufficient it would make no difference to him, he doesn't believe in status and such like (oh except that he thinks so many people are 'common', maybe he does care about status after all! Despite all this and his rotten thinking about other people I still believe he says these things to mask his own insecurities somehow. Am I in denial? Am I making excuses for him? I would love him to meet with my male counsellor, he asked me a while ago would DH agree to come and meet, I told him there was no way on earth. Thats such a shame as he is youngish and very very in touch with his wife and feelings. DHs work is too important to him to take unnecessary time off. I recently asked him to come with me for a health check - he didn't , he said I didn't require him to.

Podrick be as blunt as you wish, I understand what you are saying. And yes, he probably would be ok if I left on amicable terms and he saw the DC, you are spot on there. What am I getting from this marriage? Its been my life for over 20yrs, it used to be the most loving marriage before DCs, we were so close, I STILL see light at the end of the tunnel, even if you think I am naive and blinkered.I STILL have hope. It doesn't mean I am estatically happy, but I have hope. FWIW DH said he is happy, but then I guess he would be, he knows I love him, he has a great home, great DCs, successful business and he choses what he does when he does. I make very little waves.

I don't see you as a passive victim here either you have allowed this to happen over time. If you had confronted these issues as they arose then it wouldn't be like this now.

The rows in our house if my dh had tried to withold his earned income from our joint point - believe me the whole street would have heard it. Why didn't you? didn't want to rock the boat? Too afraid on confrontation? Too comfortable in your role as doormat?

Perhaps you should start making wave. Go out wihtout warning him/arranging it with him. Text him and tell him he'll have to do xyz this evening for the dc because you won't be there?

Perhaps start being feisty and see how he reacts?

Start treating him like he treats you - without being childish or nasty though (that may be tricky) see if he thinks it's acceptable to be on the receiving end of it.

TBH I think have some huge rows are preferable to the lack of communication you have now.

So what would it take for you to say that you are happy as well as your dh, RTC?