How to make DH accept his words are hurting me

[ringingthechanges]

without him chucking them back in my face and saying I am the problem and I'm nuts?

I feel so crushed, I haven't the strength to do anything different and I know that is weak.

Sorry if you've already covered this, but would he agree to counselling?
I only suggest it as you say you go round in circles when you try to talk about things. Maybe you would benefit from a third party steering things.

back from shopping

oh, thank goodness my "harsh 'un" as someone upthread mentioned wasn't the last word on this

OP, I am glad you came back to open up a bit more, some of what you say makes a lot more sense of your situation

I apologise for my brusqueness, but I do stand by what I actually said

Ringing, when you say you haven't the strength to do anything different, what do you mean? Do you mean leaving him? I don't think that's true you see. I don't think you want to leave him, because you still love him. All the other reasons you are giving for staying can be countered, you see. The biggest myth is that the children are going to happier if you stay together. Children are happiest with parents who love and respect each other, closely followed by parents who respect each other, but who live apart and are happy for so doing. Children actually hate growing up in atmospheres where there is tension, conflict and contempt.

They aren't just learning life lessons from your H you know. They are also learning from you. It might not be as straightforward a lesson as Dittany suggests. They might also be learning that adults resolve conflict in the way you and your husband do - and some unedifying messages about "form" being more important than "substance."

Or is it that you can't have a "different" conversation, along the lines I've suggested, about "How did we lose each other so much and what can we do about it?"

Why is that? You DO need to change the conversation, to focus on what's really going on here. If you don't think he will participate in a conversation like that without a neutral person to help, what about suggesting counselling?

Please answer this Ringing. How do you think his emotional and intimate needs are being met? If you don't know, would it be so terrible to ask him?

You see, I don't have the same take on this as others. I don't see this as abuse in one direction only. FWIW, your comment to your friends about the white wine glasses was of course a jibe about his meanness - directed at him, if not them.

I see this as two people who have lost sight of what's really important in a marriage. Who communicate terribly, who hurt each other in different ways. You might lack the strength and indeed the desire to leave the marriage, but you surely don't lack the strength to have a different conversation, or you wouldn't have taken the brave step of asking for help.

< refrains from sucking up to WWIFN yet again >

Scaryfucker ,thanks
Whenwillifeelnormal - yes I do still love him and I have tried to talk to him, before the summer. I laid bare my soul and said I wanted to get our marriage back on track, he sort of laughed and said 'ha what track' yes I know it sounds so bloody awful and one sided and thats when I question how can he feel anything for me at all and what sort of fool does that make me to love someone who treats me this way. He has always had a wall built around himself and if I am honest I don't suppose he has ever really 'let me in'. He throws himself into his business and seems to live and breathe it, its all he talks about to me at the end of each day (at least he talks to me I tell myself). We went to relate about 4 yrs ago when he decided he was leaving and no longer loved me then we gave up as he said we didn't need them. He stayed with me but I feel liked he never really 'returned to me' Yes i do agree to everyone who has said the DC learn from their parents and yes it does bother me. They already acknowledge that DH is rude to me. I sometimes believe DH is trying to manipulate me to leaving then he can be the innocent party if you like, the one who was 'left'.

I asked him this year if I was not here would he miss me? He replied ' you would miss anything after 20+ years' But WHY oh WHY does a big part of me think he says these things because he does not want to appear vunerable rather than he means it. Am I really such a fool?

Just to add, he talks badly about most people he meets, he rarely has a good word to say about anyone. I don't know what that says about him as a person but I know it isn't very nice.

Can you write a letter to him? Perhaps very much from the the angle that you take/accept responsibility that you drifted apart as a couple whilst you had PND and that you are just drinfting apart further and further?

It is desperately sad that he didn't/couldn't support you whilst you had PND but I would try and approach it without blaming him for anything just from the "can we be a couple like we used to be?"

If you get no joy from that then perhaps really it is the divorce courts.

I guess its your last sentence Cargirl that really frightens me. Isn't it a bit wierd to write to DH instead of a talk? I have thought about it many a time at least that way he would absorb what is written rather than dismiss me during a conversation. He is very good at that, as soon as I say something which he either doesn't like, doesn't agree with or touches a raw nerve, he terminates the conversation and behaves like a stroppy teen.

Please answer this Ringing. How do you think his emotional and intimate needs are being met?

His business that he thrives on. I have no reason to think there is anyone else. He has no time and is always contactable.

When we have any heated exchange and I tell him I am unhappy he always says 'well do something about it then' leave is what he means I guess. On the same token I have repeatedly asked him why he is here but he never really answers. Perhaps he is only here for the children.

So what was the catalyst 4 years ago for wanting to leave you? I know what I imagine, but presumably you know.

A business doesn't tell you how sexy and desirable you are and how much it loves you.

Well I would consider writing to him and actually put in writing that if he isn't prepared to work at changing the marriage so that you are both happier then you will assume that he does want a divorce, is to cowardly to admit it and you will divorce him on grounds of unreasonable behaviour.

Don't leave the house/leave him just initiate the divorce. Your home sounds large enough to easily live seperately under one roof whilst you get divorced.

The catylist as far as I am aware was because he had been rejected for so long due to my PND. Funnily enough I had just come off my ADs and was feeling like a weight had lifted from me. I didnt see his blow coming, it was like a bolt out of nowhere.

CarGirl maybe the letter is the best way forward. Despite the fact he is rotten to me, I know that if I write a letter it will hurt his feelings, not intentionally but because he believes he does no wrong he will feel offended and hurt by anything I say. I know I cant go on like this.

He was helping me make the bed a while ago and I had put my book under the bed - i didn't really want it to be seen. He found it ans said 'whats this', I just said 'oh its a book i am reading. He never said a word or made a single comment. The book is called ' Why Does He Do That?' Inside the minds of angry and controlling men. I found that very very strange that he said nothing. I would have been very upset if I discovered him reading a book like that about women.

Ringing, I hope this doesn't sound patronising, but well done. You've come a long way on this thread. You started by saying that his hurtful comments were the issue, then said that if he consented to pay for household items it would show you he cared - and now it seems you are moving to the realisation that these are not the real issues at all.

Again, this is purely my take on the situation based on what you've said.

I think he had an affair 4 years ago and that this was the catalyst to him wanting to leave. He said he didn't love you any more, ditched counselling and it sounds like 4 years went by without either of you referring back to these issues. No "Actually I DO love yous", no sex life resumed, no discussion about why it hasn't, just repeated arguments about bollocks such as buying glasses and cutlery.

It sounds like you tried hard to get back on track in the Spring and it must have taken a lot of courage to bare your soul like that. It must have hurt terribly to have been dismissed like that.

I cannot even begin to believe that he is having his needs met by his business and tbh, it doesn't sound as though he is giving you any reason to stay in terms of his feelings for you. You cannot make him love you and it could be that too much time has passed, with too little communication, to make that even possible now.

If I still loved someone despite all this, I think I'd have one last try at getting him to a really good relationships counsellor, but if he doesn't want to repair your marriage, even that won't work.

The question you might need to answer is therefore, can I stay with someone who doesn't love me?

It sounds like he doesn't do emotions and is being an ostrich like you said his defense walls are very up and unbreachable at the moment.

WhenwillLfeelnormal, your posts are so good, thankyou. An affair 4yrs ago? I don't even remmember how life was 4 yrs ago to even think back and maybe see anything that may have been obvious. Is it really possible? I have asked a few times over the years has he even been near anyone else which has always been answered with NO. I have to believe that I guess as I have never had any evidence to the contrary. A couple of times when I have mentioned this, like are you seeing anyone, he has always replied no, I think you are WTF is that about???

I guess I have some harsh thinking to do. For the record, I asked him a year ago what did he think about us having an open marriage. I said it as I was looking for a response, instead I got a very calm, its up to you, I don't know!

I am going to annoy myself here, but he sounds strangely emotionless

And a high achiever

Asperger's ?

Sorry, this seems to be a buzzword at the moment and it bugs the hell out of me as sometimes it is used to excuse purely twattish behaviour..... but, it fits

Yes its something I have thought about also. He doesn't actually have 'friends', he has business buddies if you like. Whats your take on this ScaryFucker, he never ever addresses me by name or nickname or anything. He just talks and I answer (fool as I am) and if in company he waits till I am looking before he speaks to me. Does this tie in with Aspergers I wonder.