How to make DH accept his words are hurting me

[ringingthechanges]

without him chucking them back in my face and saying I am the problem and I'm nuts?

rtc, you haven't said if leaving him is an option for you at all ?

Right, he is a businessman so treat this like a business deal or asking for a payrise. Then he'll understand. Don't withdraw and use emotion to force his hand because you can see it won't work - so far he has ignored you and made YOU feel worse.

You have to tackle him head on, tell him the money you get isn't enough for the lifestyle he would expect to project to his friends and colleagues, and remind him of all that you do (and how much it would cost to get a nanny / cleaner if you were not there).

Agree with a previous poster - ask him if he treats other people like he treats or speaks to you, and TELL him you need respect because YOU are the one that lets him have the lifestyle he does by arranging everything outside work. Try not to get emotional and be very firm. Do NOT be the first person to walk out on the discussion - it's like standing up to a bully. (Well, actually that is exactly what you are doing). So be ready to be the strongest.

I am really surprised he can't see that the people you had over for dinner probably went away wondering how a man who makes millions doesn't have enough wine glasses for a few friends. It seems to me he is not really living his real life in that home at all. I suspect he has an emotional and sexual connection elsewhere, and his denigration of the OP is a way of making his behaviour seem reasonable to him. I think the two of you are going through the motions, rtc.

I recognised you straight away.

This man is so nasty to you. I too think he has someone on some level somewhere.

Sadly I think you will need to divorce him to at least get him to see the light that you have needs and feelings and rights. You will be so much happier without him.

It's equally possible that the friends went away from dinner wondering why the OP was worrying about not having white wine glasses, when all they were concerned with was having a nice meal with friends......?

OP you're never going to resolve this situation without talks, however tired you are of them. I just think you might need to look at this from a different perspective, hence my earlier post.

Dittany, I think it must be money and status, otherwise why would anyone stay? OP would be richer without him anyway.

Is that it then OP ?

Did you not hear what you wanted to hear ?

Have you decided all you want after all is the matching glasses ? But obviously not the soup spoons ?

What do you want from MN ?

Will you be back with the same thread in 12 months time ?

crumbs scaryf that last post was a strong un

No its not the money or status that keeps me here. What status is there to be had by being a 'rich man's wife'? I suppose I am scared to leave. Scared to hurt him by taking away the DC. Scared of hurting my DC by taking them away from dh as he is very close to them. Especially scared of taking away DS from his dad. I do still love DH despite his controlling ways and yes I know that is not as it should be but after 22 yrs its hard to think about an alternative life. He has different views to life than I do, he doesn't see the need to buy things unless 'absolutely' neccessary whereas I like everything to look nice. He has many qualities and works very hard for us. He feels like it is never enough for me which is very sad. I sometimes wonder would I have left if I did not have a son and possibly the answer is yes. I also feel so confused because he actually does so many nice things for us too but at the same time behaves not so nice IYSWIM

so what you going to do next?

But it's not uncommon for men not to "get" buying nice things for the home etc... DH and I are currently in dispute about what is an acceptable budget for replacing my car. He cannot understand why I want something a bit more flash than I have at the moment. Says it's a complete waste of money. My point is that it gives me pleasure, we can afford it, so why not? We're getting there, slowly.
But the difference is that we're thrashing this one out from absolute parity of status. Not because we earn the same (I'm part-time), but because we have always, from day one, tipped all our money into one family pot, regardless of who earns what, with the SAHM bit deserving equal importance. And the day he points out that he contributes more than I do or says "I earn, yes, so I decide when we buy stuff" will be the day he gets a shovel round the back of the head!
I do feel for you. I hope that you can regain some respect from him.

By the way, I'm interested in your points about your son, and not being prepared to take him from his father and that you might have left otherwise. Yet you mention DCs. I take it there are also daughters? Is there a strong cultural influence that re-inforces his position as "head-of-the-house?"

Sorry if that's not relevant.

No Clam not at all its just that DS is younger and he and DH do loads of boy stuff together whereas DD is either joined to laptop and with friends or doing girly stuff.

Hello

Sounds to me that there is some v good advice, mixed w some v harsh advice. My 2 pence' worth:

• most important point is that you aren't getting what you need. Of course its never about the wine glasses. They are just easier to focus on than a husband who doesn't love you like he used to.

• Do you know what you want? Do you want to leave, but are too scared? OR do you want to stay w your DH and mend your relationship? Prob most important, but most difficult, point.

• You say you still love him, and while there's love, there's hope that you can mend your relationship. Plus, DCs are an extra incentive to try and resolve before leaving, but these are personal decisions! I personally think, do your absolute best to resolve and if it still isn't working, then leave.

• agree that you need to have an objective discussion. Think through what you want and how you will present it. That's how he operates all day, so prob the only way he will understand. Avoid any verbal attacks - this is a negotiation, so you both need to "win" for this to be successful. Presumably your DH isn't happy, either, so would like some change.

• If you feel this way, I would also emphasise to your DH that you don't see him as a cash cow. You loved him when poor.

• you do have tremendous value, only he isn't appreciating it at the moment, or your contribution to the marriage. Sounds like you aren't either (is he, subconsciously, taking his cues from you? People do what they can get away w). BTW there's a reason judges award significant % of wealth accrued during a long marriage to the wife. And its not pity.

• Re your confidence and independence, perhaps some volunteer work or extra study would be viable options? Only consider something you would really enjoy. You don't need the cash, but you do need something of your own. Think this independence is v important regardless of what you decide w your DH.

Hope all these differing perspectives help. Ideally someone will say something that will really "speak" to you, to help you find your way through this.

Sorry to post and run, but need to take baby daughter out.

Good luck!

mmmm

See, I can kind of see both sides of the fence from up here.

he claims you are a demanding child, and this is a horrible thing to say to your wife - but you deal with conflict by "Not saying goodnight or good morning!"

You are not nine.This is not how adult women resolve their difficulties.

Get brave. Instead of "Not saying good night or good morning", try saying "If you do not interact with me properly, on an adult to adult basis, I will leave you and you will have to interact with a solicitor who has my interests in mind".

Currently, fo whatever reason, you are behaving like a child. throwing paddies about wine glasses and cutlery and "not saying good night" is most certainly going to give your husband fuel to call you the names you say he does. If you know you are behaving to the most adult of your ability (and that does not mean eating his shit with a smile, by the way) you can brush off these insults.

Thank you Bunnymother, I know I need to have a talk and quite frequently do in fact. Sadly, and this is where I know I will be told I am mad to put up with it and should leave, he never ever sees my point of view. I may as well have a conversation with a brick wall because no matter what I say, how I say it or anything else, he never sees things the way I do (I am not at all unique) so I know I am making valid staements etc. OR he just doesnt want to see it my way. Hence life goes on, and nothing is ever resolved. I come on MN in the hope of someone offering some advice or stagegy to try that I haven't yet thought of

colditz, I do not throw paddies to get me own way. As for not saying goodnight etc, it may look childish when infact I am just so hurt by his treatment of me, I cannot talk to him. I feel totally crushed. I find it so hard to brush off his insults. Quite frankly I don't know why I continue to be a good and loyal wife to him, yes I do, I am a nice person or a STUPID one

I think the real issue here isn't much about wine glasses or wealth, but that he seems to be loving you less. That coupled with the fact that you don't have a life outside of him and the home is making you scared that if he does up and leave you will be left without an identity.

I really do think you should take the advice of posters and do something for yourself. You CAN get an OU qualification or similar without leaving home, or the local uni may do something part time (if you are in London, Birkbeck do evening degrees for people with other commitments). All this will help boost your self esteem.

By the way - I do get the wine glasses thing, it's about knowing that what with the social group you move in you have to show a certain standard or be gossiped about... men don't care, but SAHMs are always held to account. Very unfair.

Okay, the picture you are now painting is of a man who does have plenty of redeeming qualities. He spends lots of time with his son and he does "lots of nice things for you all". Plus he works incredibly hard and has never lost sight of the value of money. His faults (as far as I can see) are controlling what money he gives you (and in the process, belittling your feelings of being beholden to him) and being verbally critical of your behaviour and personality.

Sometimes I think it's useful to imagine what HE might be posting on here. Perhaps he might say that he works all the hours God sends, that his wife is obsessed with appearances, that she believes that happiness will be gained by buying expensive things and that as a couple, you are growing further apart because your values are so conflicted. We might respond with, "Do you need to work so hard? Why are you avoiding time with your wife?" etc. etc.

Ringing, I'm not saying he's right about any of this, but what's missing is: how are his emotional and intimate needs being met by this marriage?

It's evident that yours are not being met, but have you ever thought what it might be like to walk in his shoes?

I may have missed some clarity on your earlier thread, but is the sex drought entirely down to him? Do you ever use sex as a weapon and withold it if he won't buy something - and give it if he does? If on the other hand you are saying that you have frequently been rejected, then that is a different matter entirely. It might be a bit of both - neither of you really want sex, but it all comes down to the same thing: neither of you are having your needs for intimacy fulfilled by the other.

What is also evident from your posts is the poor quality of your interactions with eachother. He accuses you of being childish, demanding etc., you make jibes about his meanness in front of friends, he responds by pointing out that these things don't matter, you respond by pointedly ignoring him (walking into the bathroom to point out "I'm ignoring you, you know") and so it goes on...

I'm sure you are sick of these talks. These are lousy interactions. What about some "kind" talks, focusing on how you've both lost each other through these years?

Many of us are taking time and care to respond to you about these points and I hope we are provoking some thought and revelation in you. I do think if you want that support and advice to continue, it would be helpful to acknowledge this and let us know what you're thinking as a result.

Sorry, OP, should not have said "a husband who doesn't love you like he used to". Cruel and presumptive. Should have said "a husband who doesn't treat you like he used to".

Really am about to head out, but wanted to add:

• think you need to have a strategy. For that need to know all your options, so see a divorce lawyer. Go to the best - your DH has too much cashola and therefore prob complex financial arrangements. Good to know what you are entitled to. Seems like threats of future poverty can be bandied about from DHs, so you need to know the truth.

• your negotiations should inc a revised household budget. Obv certain expenditure items have been overlooked. I know its not about the wine glasses, but you don't want to be micro managed re household expenditure. Its demeaning and (I would say to DH) not a good use of his time or energy.

I really am going now!!

Yes dittany you are absolutely right, I guess I have just kept on and on living in hope. Problem is when I do talk to DH he appears to be totally convnced that he and only he is in the right and then puts me down again.
whenwillifeelnormal - thank you so much for your post, sorry I thought I had been responding the other peoples answers. I agree with a lot of what you have written, thankyou. To clarify, I do not and never had made jibes to others about his meanness. The lack of intimacy between us stems from a few years ago when I had PND which he has never acknolwedged. I never felt like sex and was on anti depressents for a few yrs. He got fed up of being rejected and vowed never to bother me again. He has pretty much kept that promise over the recent years. This is despite me laying my cards on the table and telling him, sorry, it wasn't my fault, I still love you, I want a proper marriage, etc, etc. I still do not know what I am going to do, as I seem to live my live pretty much in sadness and confusion wondering what shall I do. If DH does (albeit in his own way) still love me, he would rather cut off his nose to spite his face than try and stop me from leaving. That being the case, I would NEVER really know how he feels about me.