FAB & GLAM 10 - Gosh, Do We Really Talk That Much???

[Dumbledior]

Hi, new thread

Lovely to see all the old posters again. Don't go now you are back.

Annie/UC/MHIS - lovely to see you and thanks MHIS for the FB chat.

Hi Tanee

Do you know i found up some cross stitch and have vowed to finish - do I feel a race coming on.
ME - Competitive?? never .

Anyway hope you find some peace and things start to get a little easier.

Hi to everyone else - hope you are recovered from our trip dior - the children have been lovely since - typical they show their worst side when we are out.

Tanee, TFM is right but it seems this is a situation where you will have to make some decisions. What they are is entirely up to you, but it doesn't sound like you can keep treading water any more. I don't know about you, but when dh and I were having problems I really resented being the one who had to make decisions (about whether our relationship had a future) since I had been put in a situation I hadn't expected/wanted. I resented him for that. It felt so unfair - on top of everything else. I feel for you

Dior, no offence taken of course ! I know the alcohol has to be addressed - and alongside the underlying depression.

HW hi - ok, you're on - let's see who finishes our UFO first .

Ladylush, I know the names of your baby now - and they're BEAUTIFUL!

Typing short messages since the comp keeps dying. It crashed in the middle of an email to TFM and I lost loads. . Sadly, I know I will not be happy whatever I decide. If I leave with DD, I shall be miserable. If I stay without her, ditto. I can only hope that it might be a temporary means to an end. But I have a lot of thinking to do. DP is not helping by being nice at the moment. He and DD just avoid each other completely and I have to admit, a lot of tension will be lifted if she goes - and she will be very close by, so I will still see her as much as possible. I am dreading having to broach the subject with my mother though. I know exactly what she will say.

Thanks Tanee Second name is after a favourite great aunt - sadly no longer alive.
Ikwym - it feels like neither decision will make you happy. I felt like that last year.
Is dp being nice because he senses that he has gone too far?

Tannee - it is such a hard decision to make, particularly since your dd is nearing the age when she will leave home anyway. If it were me I'd have no choice but to put the dcs wishes/needs ahead of mine as they are still so little and need me, but when she only has a year or 2 before she flies the nest I guess it wouldn't be the end of the world for her to move out and get some space.
Fwiw my Mum met my stepdad when I was 17 and I was so horrible and jealous and I forced my Mum to choose between us, thinking I'd get rid of him. My Mum chose him, saying she'd given up so much for us already it was time I stood on my own two feet.
I hated her and him at the time, but it was the best thing they did. I certainly grew up fast and realised how much my Mum did for me. Now I adore my stepdad - he's more like a real dad to me than my own ever was. Now I'm rambling (too much wine at lunch) but I hope you get my drift!!!

Oh yes - beautiful name Lush, I bet she is just gorgeous

Thanks ginnny Yes she is gorgeous - but of course I am biased
Interesting perspective re. Tanee's situation. I think your mum was right to make that choice. It's good that you get on well with your step dad now. I wonder if Tanee's dd will get on with him if they have some space from each other.

Tannee - I hope you don't think I was saying your dd is being horrible making you choose. I didn't mean that at all.
I just wanted to say that there can be a positive outcome to this situation and like LL says, a bit of space could do you all the world of good.
!!!

Ladylush what a coincidence - I too had a fave great aunt with the same name! She never married and so was a surrogate mother to my mum's family (their own mother died of eclampsic shock at only 29 years old ) and was a terrific Maiden Great Aunt to us all! It's a good name!

Ginnny, thanks for your perspective. One of my friend's husbands had a similar experience in his teens with his mum. Only in his case, he and his sister were so nasty to the New Man that their mum chose them - he now regrets denying her that happiness as he and his sister grew up of course, got married and she was left on her own till she died. I don't particularly want that to happen to me and I don't think DD would. As you say, if DD were younger (such as when DP and I got together), there would have been no choice - in fact, DP and I only bought the house because DD had accepted him after 3 years of working on building a relationship with her (though she says now, that she never stopped hating him). It's true, she would be moving out within the next year or so anyway, but I hate her going under these circumstances.

It's playing on my mind so much that I am being very distant from DP. And I think he knows it, though he doesn't know why. He's being very tentative with me, as if he expects me to explode in his face if he touches me (which I very well might!) DD will be out late tonight, so I think I will try telling him what she's decided - and hope he doesn't react in a way that makes me hate him - especially as we're going off to a folk festival this week. Three nights under canvas with a Man in a Mood or Man who says Whoopee She's Going, will be just great !

And Ginnny, no of course I know what you mean. I agree, DD isn't being horrible, she's just protecting herself and I think that's admirable, brave and mature (plus my mum will feed her proper cooked food every night which I don't ). She's doing what she needs to do to keep her own self intact. I applaud that. I just worry that she feels I should stand up for her by kicking him out.

Right - last posting as I'm off home to my crappy crashing computer. Ladylush, you could well be right that DP and DD will get on better apart. At least, they will both lose the pressure of living together. Thinking of it calmly, DP took her on willingly, but never having had kids of his own, has never had to deal with living with one since he left home and his own large brood of siblings. So even though DD is the easiest of teenagers, she's still an addition to his life and a distraction from us as a couple. If she's gone, he may be forced to readdress his dissatisfaction with our life together and focus on what's really bothering him. I hope that if she goes, (and I am increasingly thinking it will be best), he will rediscover the high regard he used to have for her when he only saw her part-time. As for her, she does not forgive easily (tough cookie, my little girl ) so any higher regard for him will be a Looong time coming - and may only come, in fact, when she has relationships of her own and realises how complex they can be (though I do hope she has an easy ride through her love life, more like my sister's and less like mine .

Anyway, I'm not even sure yet if my mother will be able/willing to have her and I DREAD the lecture I'm going to get about being a Bad Mother and thinking Only of Myself. She has the space (my old bedroom is huuge) but she IS 84 and much as she adores her grandchildren, I don't know how she'll feel about DD living with her permanently for at least a year!

Shame - DD and I had only just got her bedroom furnished to her complete satisfaction . I just hope she's happy to come back sometimes for holidays (am REALLY hoping DP goes back to acting with long summer tours!)

Tanee - even more of a coincidence is that my auntie Rose was also a spinster. She apparently had one great love but he was married and they could never be together. She loved children and spoiled us all - but in a nice way.

Re your dd. I don't know if the separation will help the relationship btw your dd and your dp - it was just a thought. Do you think she will understand that you are not rejecting her? If she does, I suppose there is every chance things can improve in the future.

Tanee - I know dd is fairly old and would be moving out soon anyway, BUT, will she take this as you 'choosing him over me'? It is a really hard decision to make and I don't envy you .

Dior, I know - this is what I would feel in her place (even if it happened now at my advanced age). I will have to do a lot of careful talking to her and hope she understands. At least I CAN talk to her - I still haven't managed to talk to him but I have gone very quiet instead - last night he asked if I wanted to go to this folk festival at all since I seemed so unenthusiastic. I keep procrastinating - didn't get the chance last night either but am determined to tell him tonight as DD will be working late again. He's been very sweet to me so I hope he will be receptive - I am going to concentrate on keeping the discussion focussed on MY and DD's feelings, and not HIS, for once.

LadyL, my great aunty lost out big time on getting married - her generation still had arranged marriages on the whole, except for my granddad who made a lovely romantic love match & was blissfully happy until the eclampsia struck. Poor Great Aunt had to depend on her father and brothers to find her a groom and they never did (she was lovely, but a bit plain). The last attempt was when she was about 35, but the potential groom took a look at her neice, my aunt, and asked if he could marry her instead! Humiliating all round, and they all gave up at that point.

From what you've said about your DD Tannee, she sounds very sensible and mature and I'm sure it won't come down to a straight choice between her and DP.
I think if it were me I would put the ball in her court and ask her what she wanted me to do to support her and take it from there.
Hope the chat with him goes OK.
(((HUG)))

Well, I finally told him - and he was remarkably sensitive about it, first asked how I felt about DD leaving, then said he could go to his mother's rather than cause us upheaval. That would mean him losing his job, so he asked if I could manage to keep the house going (no talk of selling up!). I said I could take in a permanent lodger (actually have two work colleagues who have already raised their hands ) but we should look at all the options. Ideally he could rent somewhere locally and claim housing benefit to help, and when DD finally leaves at the proper time, he could - if we still wanted it - move back in.

I also said that, whatever he did, I still felt he must seek help, at least go chat with our GP for starters, as without DD around he might then focus on someone/thing else (like me ) when he gets depressed - and the drinking has to be sorted out. I said I loved him but hated his illness and behaviour, and that I couldn't guarantee our relationship lasting otherwise. I asked if he wanted to end up alone, and he said no.

So I have left those thoughts for him to mull over. Meanwhile DD still says she is going next week, she won't stay around to see what he'll do. I told her I very much respected her decision and thought she was being very mature and sensible - to which she smiled. She wouldn't stay even if he apologised and she thinks the way he's spoken to me is unforgiveable - I said couples do sometimes say dreadful things in the heat of the moment, and if it became a habit with him, I would not accept it. She may go round to my mum's tonight to talk to her about going there.

Well Tanee, you have done your best x

Well done Tannee.
Your dd is a credit to you - beautiful and sensible. You should be very proud.

Tanee how are you today? How is dd? Hope things are ok

Hi I'm back - DP and I went off to a music festival on Thursday and had a great time, three days away from our cares. One night as we sat outside our tent before bed, he said that although things were lovely, he felt under a shadow because of DD leaving and (of course he was drunk) he suspected her of deliberately drawing my family into it because then it would alienate them from him - no more joint Christmases or family get togethers. As he was tiddly I didn't think it worth challenging his latest paranoia at length, but briefly I pointed out that HE was responsible for alienating my family - he had not gone to any of my family's dinners since Christmas anyway (and that it had been noted) and that after last Christmas he'd himself suggested that in future maybe we should do our Christmases separately as he'd not spent Christmas with his mum for the past three years. I also said that DD was going because living with him was doing her head in, not because she wanted to involve my family. She's acting out of self-preservation and I think her very mature and brave to do it instead of staying and suffering in her room. Then I changed the subject.

My parents are happy to have DD stay there, so that's ok at least. My mum's reaction - typical of her pragmatic approach - was that DP is a grown man and should pull himself together. My Dad surprised me by saying to her that depression is an illness and obviously he can't just 'pull himself together'. My Dad, bless him, is not usually so openly perceptive - he has hidden depths (I've long suspected that my Dad is quite a sensitive soul, while my Mum is loving but tough as old boots ). So DD is moving out this evening, though I am so hoping DP will explore the idea of moving out himself, so that she can return at least until she goes to college.

Feel sad, but also, I admit, relief that I won't have to worry about him taking it out on her any more. I'm hoping that if each 'cause' of his discontent is removed, he may eventually realise that the cause - and the solution - lies within himself.

Or he might start blaming YOU for being the cause of his discontent Tanee. I hope not, but I don't think he will accept that he needs to change, much as my h doesn't.

Sorry, I'm in disguise, but it is the fashionable one here

Hi Chinchilla, do I know you? Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if he blamed me. He's blaming everyone but himself. He's already sulking again because he came home from work to find DD here with some friends (I told him she would be, but he expected her to have gone before his return) and he's sulking even more because I told him she and a couple of friends will be sleeping over here on Thursday night as they are going to a festival early on Friday mornin and we are nearest the station. He's being quite the domestic tyrant and I see a huge row brewing . He seems to expect that because she's moved out, she should never set foot under this roof again!

Arsehole (sorry, I'm feeling rather cross .