Emotional Abuse - can we talk abou t it and what it entails?

[Janos]

If we already have a thread on this then I apologise for bringing it all up again. Perhaps someone can let me know and if so I'll let the thread die quietly!

I just thought it would be helpful to talk about it, and what constitutes it so people who are in an emotionally abusive relationship could recognise what is going on as it can be so insidious and nasty, and more difficult to identify.

This is not for one moment to denigrate or draw attention away from physical or sexual abuse btw.

freeasabird - are these men twins? I have had similarly frustrating timesall week. I will not let him stay, but because he has no money & refuses to come out and say to his friends - look, I really need somewhere to stay (prefers to ask casually if any chance of staying 1 night, like no big deal, then if they say not really good time, leaves it) - so he's sleeping on buses all night, turning up morning & evening wanting to change/ shower / nap / cook food he's bought. Apparently I am the most terrible person to "put him out on the street" when I am supposed to be a dog lover but can treat him in this way. It was his uncle where he was renting that actually asked him to go - i unwillingly let him stay here a few days till the weekend police calling event. Because he's actually stayed away from drugs so far, brought money in - he is a changed man, yet now I am the awful abusive 1 as I won't let him stay. He hasn't yet managed to come here without telling me I'm horrible every time I maintain a boundary of what's ok with me. And saturdaynight he woke me at 8.15 arriving for food, came at 11 for a drink, 3am for something else then 6.45am. Kids woke lots too & I felt like utter zombie on Sunday.

I don't think it's ok that he's homeless, but he won't try to find someone to take him in, doesn't want any solution that might take him bit further away (temporarily), won't look into declaring himself homeless to council, or applying for housing benefit. The only reason he can't afford to stay somewhere is because he's reduced us all to such poverty. And I've been trying to escape him for over 2 years, plenty of time for him to sort something else out if he wanted to. But he doesn't. And I get endless pressure that it's best for kids to remain together, that I'm just selfish etc.

Also benefits people still asking me for more info - I applied 10 weeks ago - every time they tell me a date when they'll decide all they've decided is that they want me to fill in another form or give them more info.

Sorry rant over

to onlygotonelife. I am so proud of you for standing your ground. The man sounds like a loser. I mean how much ego and pride does he have? Until he recognises this and admits that its his fault and responsibility he wont be able to help himself and that is sad but not your problem! You are amazing for not giving into him and clearly a good mum in doing so. What kind of role model is this prat?! Your not selfish at all. What kind of life do you have for you and the children with him? You are doing the best thing for him by standing your ground. He may not see it now but hopefully one day he will. It happened to my brother and it was the best thing she ever did for him in the end. Now he has is self employed, a mortgage and semi decent. If you continue to bail or help him out he will never ever stand on his own and if he doesn't then he has no no to blame but himself. It never became your responsibility to do this and still isn't. With reference to benefit they can be a pain in the butt! However just keep on the phone and send info as requested. It will get backdated- which isn't much help to you now but know that it will eventually be sorted and all this is only temporary. Your on the right track! Take Care. x

feefee - thank you, it's nice to hear, because most of the time I find it very hard to remain sure that things are how I think they are. I know I can be horrible tohim too - I have called him names, struggle to have any disagreement with him without hanging up / walking off - I wonder if I am abusive too, It doesn't comfort me to think it is hardly surprising perhaps after all he's put me through, because it doesn't justify my behaviour. Although as he refuses to allow me to end relationship or say no to anything, he limits my responses somewhat.

But I don't want him in my life. Surely that is a basic right that can't be denied to me? The very fact that he does not accept my right to live separately or split up, surely indicates he's abusive. Aaaaagh - so confusing

Anyway feefee - how are you?Have you spoken to Womens Aid? It can be helpful to speak to people experienced in these things - they offer non judgemental support, and a sort of reality check in if what you're experiencing is ok or not.

I did try to call them but couldn't speak to someone as they were busy. I will try again though. This site has been very helpful for me. My partner knows his behaviour is unacceptable and knows we cant go on like it. I am not perfect either though and accept that. We are all only human and I know I have some issues to deal with but that doesn't excuse his behaviour. I want to give it another go on the condition that we/ he get help and we put some things in place to prevent us from hurting each other. I have put some boundaries in place and feel strong enough now to handle him. He is only human too and I do not have to take on board his stuff. No more than he does me.
You do have a right to end the relationship! Absofu8ckinglutely! He does not deserve you. He doesn't have to accept its over though. That is HIS problem not yours. You sound like you have made your mind up. You just need some extra support. I think that the 'programming' we put into our children is so important. If they are bought up around abuse then you can't be upset that is what they end up in when they are older. What would you say to your daughter if she was in your position in the future? I haven't read through all the previous posts but from what I have your awesome. Don't forget it. He is a jerk and if you could find the strength to distance him you may give yourself the opportunity to find happiness with someone else. All the best. x

Hi
I haven't posted for a couple of weeks. DH hardly leaves the house and we have been away for a week. Spent the last hour catching up on the thread and have lots of thoughts going through my mind about the similarities and awfulness of these men. One thing that strikes me is how much many of you still love these men. I actually don't think I do anymore - not after 17 yrs of this treatment and after the way he has treated the kids. I have seen a side to him I can never forget. We also never have good times, only OK, bad and terrible. He hasn't hugged me in many years although he did text me last year to say he loved me - the first time in around 15 years.

My Lundy Bancroft book arrived today and I've been scan reading it as he's away for the night (freedom!). I've also had 3 counselling sessions. She said I'm in limbo today. I either need to end it or insist that he works to acknowledge what is happening and change. The funny thing is that the second idea really doesn't appeal. I need to end it but somehow can't bring myself to do it. Has anyone else experienced this? Again, my counsellor said that we need a real push to change and asked me to visualise timelines? Can I still see myself in this marriage in 3, 6 and 12 months and 5 years? When do I see it as unacceptable to still be there? That really hit a chord. Shall I continue to drift in this unacceptable situation or act to make a change?

Lundy Bancroft is great - highly recommended. What really hit home was reading the section on the effect on kids. My older DS is 11 and has started showing aggressive behaviour towards me and his younger brother (age 6). I asked him tonight if he felt our home situation was affecting him in any way. Without prompting, he said he felt he had become more aggressive towards me and his brother because of his father's behaviour as role model. I mearly cried. I've decided to be upfront with him about the situation in the house because he is deeply unhappy with his Dad and wants change and started to talk to me months ago about the situation. He initiated the conversation and said he wanted to talk to someone for several years but felt it was wrong to talk to me about his Dad as I am married to him. I don't know if this is the right thing to do but I don't want him to grow up thinking this behaviour is normal as he sees it at home and with DH's parents (his Mum EA's his Dad).

My heart goes out to all of you posting - we have difficult choices to make.

I notice often theres the thing of " i am abusive too sometimes " or " ive got my own issues too "
I used to have my own issues, but hes gone now, he was a fat stinking little bully.
I once beat his fat face in and thoroughly enjoyed it,, i wish id done it again actually, he deserved everything he got and cowered and cried like a small boy.

Good. He was terrified.I wish id done it regularly , that every time he opened his fat face and spewked out his poisen id battered him stupid.

Benny hill has now launched a long distance vendetta against me, like someone else said, i have aparently ruined his life ( cos he cant abuse me ).The aim is to make me suffer, emotionally and financially and ruin my life.
I will pay,without a doubt. I should be a bag of nerves and panicking,, but its a small price to pay for having this vile shit out of my life.
Easy for me to say, as i am not emotionally attatched to the little turd anymore,, and every day im gratefull for that.

Fairyliquid, i knew for years i needed to get out, but i played it down,made excuses for him as i couldnt deal with it.
Lucky / unlucky for me ( im not sure which ) he behaved so badly towards me for so long that eventually i hated him,,in a way i had never hated anyone , so it was easy to kick his stinky arse out.

I always thought the kids adored him , i told myself he was a fantastic dad ect and they would miss him. Sadly they dont and prefer him gone. Even my very young one realised what he was like but didnt ever say.but was definateley affected by it.

Hello everyone
Great to see you all posting with your updates.

Fairyliquid that is so sad re your DS, but enouraging too that he can express himself. The better you can communicate with him now the better it will be in the long term. He will see that you regard your EA's behaviour as unacceptable and that you are on HIS (DS) side.

Kids know better than we do, they have BS detectors built in!

To everyone who wonders if they are abusive.
NO THEY ARE NOT.
Not even Hopefull when she beat up her Benny Hill!
And why are WE not the abusive ones? Because we do not feel entitled to be. Because if we yell or put down or name call it is in RESPONSE to continued stress and bad treatment from these men. Sometimes we hope that a dose of their own medicine might get through to them. Sadly it never does, just makes them bleat that we are abusing them.

Also, we CARE that we are behaving this way. We dont like it and know we are not behaving like ourselves. And why? Because we are decent kind caring people who deserve FREEDOM from these twats and their abusive ways. Who, by the way, DO NOT CARE how they treat us.

onelife, you KNOW you would be better off without him, you are already! Just hold onto that. I know its confusing and he is doing his best to make sure you stay confused, but its really very simple. He is an outright selfish loser who doesnt care what damage he does to you and your children and refuses to take responsibility for his actions. He will never change. Sorry if that sounds harsh but its true.

madame - I definitely know I'm better off without him. Feelmuch happier without him around.When I hear a noise at the door that could be him I get a plunging feeling of anxiety. I'dprefer for him to be asleepif he's here because I can't bear him anymore.

Dd1 said today "daddies sleep and mummies are awake" - hmm, wonder where shegot that idea from!

Oh, and to comfort myself and anyone else who worries about their behaviour - abusive behaviour is about control and coersion (sp?) & looking honestly at my own behaviour the things I do that I don't like are more about intense frustration and despair,not about control.

feefee - whatever your so called "issues" are, that certainly doesn't make it OK for him to behave like he does. Does he act the same way towards other people ever? If not, it shows he is in control of his behaviour,and chooses what he does. Read the Lundy Bancroft book- it's very enlightening (luckily ex tore it quite neatly in half down the spine, and only ripped about 6 pages so a lot of sellotape later, I was able to continue reading it, despite his efforts)

Apparently I am not appreciative enough about the selfless way he is behaving now, living on the buses. I said that I think it is great he's stayed away from drugs, but find it hard to leap up and down marvelling at his saintly behaviour in choosing to be homeless rather than rent somewhere, as the only reason he's faced with such a choice is because of all the money he has wasted. Though yes to be fair he's actually contributed some money to the household recently, and could have spent it in rent instead. But I said that's actually the more sensible thing to do. OK we need the money but I think accvommodation is a basic necessity! And would stop him popping round here all the time. But I must be impressed with his heroism. Is anyone else??? Am I unreasonable???

No onelife, you arent unreasonable. Not in the slightest.
It is too little, too late.
Sleeping on buses is a stupid martyrish gesture, real woe-is-me stuff. Nothing to be proud of. At best misguided and immature, at worst extremely manipulative.

Either way, nothing he deserves credit for.

Hi Fairy Liquid

Souns like you are doing really well now and I think you are right to be open with your eldest DS. Talking about your H's behaviour and helping your son to making sense of it will help him I am sure. Otherwise if it is not mentioned DS may think you are in agreement with how H is treating you all.

I know exactly how you feel about taking action. It is hard to know how to. I left 12 weeks ago now and before that there seemed to be a number of barriers that I had to think through and then it all clicked in place and I knew it was time to go. It took me about 5 months once I'd decided because of Xmas etc. and all the time the abuse was escalating as H sensed I had wised up. Even though I tried to keep things calm at home.

The barriers were:
Feelings for H - realised they were gone, the same as you have.
Abuse - were we really being abused or was I the crazy control freak. Thanks to Lundy, MN and a good counsellor I finally grasped that one but it was a very difficult hurdle and I still wobble now.
Money, Legal Advice and Housing - got those practical things sorted with some help from my family
Friends and Family - knew H's family would be completely hostile and I'd lose relationships - and I did. But no reason to stay!
Children - knew they'd be upset but in the end once we left and could talk openly - just like your DS, they could see the behaviour was wrong almost more clearly than I could.

Because my eldest is 18, I told him secretly that I intended to leave two weeks before the date I had set, so that he could decide for himself what to do. For the first month he was torn and stayed with his father who was vile to him. Then one day he just moved out and he now says he'll never go back and live with him again.

Hope this helps and good luck!

Hi all, I've been reading rather than posting lately, but I'm still here!
onelife - you sounds so resolute now!! You know you're not being unreasonable really don't you? I'm currently unappreciately of saintly behaviour here too... yes, I did notice he cleaned the toilet at the weekend, I just wasn't aware that deserved a gold star.

Anyway, I'm still holding firm here. He's accused me of rushing things because I have a mortgage appointment this morning, so I can borrow enough to buy him out. I dread to think what he would say if he knew I've already spoken to a solicitor to draw up the papers to transfer the house and to formalise the financial agreement. It really hit me hard last night though. He says he doesn't want to take any furniture or anything from the house when he moves out because he doesn't want reminding of the good times. I tried to tell him that the good memories were good, and I wanted to remember the good ones. It seems he'd rather completely wipe me from his mind

ditzzy, you are doing the right thing. Good for you. He is just playing mind games with you - but I am sure you know that.

Onelife-

YOU HAVE TO STOP LETTING HIM IN YOUR HOUSE.

It's his choice to "live on buses". He could go to the council and get a place in a homeless shelter, or some temporary accommodation. It's not ideal, but I've done it. Twice, as a matter of fact. Once single aged 20 and 2 years ago with my DH and DD who was 18 months at the time. Both times I did it because I was too poor to afford rent + deposit on a new place. It's what you do when you have no other option. You need to make clear to him that he has no other options, by refusing him entry to your house.

This is just another way he can harrass and abuse you. He's punishing you. It's passive agressive manipulation. Coming to your house and waking you 4 times in the night? It's like you have a newborn! "Look at the sacrifices I'm making for you!" He's hoping that if he martyrs himself for a bit he'll be able to guilt trip you into letting him come home. Are you going to fall for it? Because it looks like you already are.

Well, you asked him to move out and leave you alone. He isn't. So I fail to see how he's abiding by your wishes. He's making his problem your problem because he's an abusive addict and as a result he has absolutely no ability to take responsibility for his own actions.

I think that if you are unable to kick him out properly, and you really do want to be free of his abuse, then you need to move into a refuge. You need support to keep him away from you.

AAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH

just needed to do that,feel better now!!!!

oh hes doing my head in, yesterday asked me for some money,so i agreed and gave him the last of what id said i would then told him he was on his own now.

i told him that his old job was advertised in the paper (you know the one that hes been trying for 2 weeks to get hold of) and today hes just text me and said he starts back at work tomorrow night.

funny that isnt it?

then he asked could he call in for a cup of tea when he drops DD off, i said no thats not a good idea and we already agreed you wouldnt hang around when you pick up/drop off (dd gets upset as he says right im going in a minute countless times).

he said

ok ive not fallen out with you over it,
so i said well i should think not,we agreed the other day.

then he asked if DS could stay with him and i said ill ask him,then he said will you give him his tea,so i said no because it will be too early but if you like ill give you some money to get him something
and he said ok to that.

the sooner he starts earning money the better,and why does he insist on coming in when he drops the DC off?
i had to ask him 4 times to go the other day.

Digitalis and Madameovary - thanks for your words of support. I always seem to have a reason to put of the big conversation. I have tried several months ago but he wouldn't listen. Then birthday's and holidays came up that I didn't want to spoil. Now 6 months have passed and things are worse than ever. I'm worried about his reaction too, because he has a lot of the Lundy Bancroft Controller EA profile and they are most likely to be violent on leaving. He's never been violent before but his behaviour is very agressive.

Freeasabird - stay strong, you're doing well.

I've just had another thought. Lately he has been standing up and staring at me whilst delivering his delightful put-downs. Tonight my DS asked me to make him some supper. I told him I would but needed the loo first. H then stood up, approached me staring deliberately and said "what makes you think you are going to make it for him". He then made DS's supper. I felt a bit physically intimidated. Am I being over-sensitive and picking fault with everything he does? He lost his temper several times tonight too and didn't have any tea - a sure sign of the next few days' behaviour to come.

fairlyliquid - NO you aren't being overly sensitive. I know it's very easy to doubt yourself in what you think is happening, but honestly, that definitely sounds intimidating.

If you are worried about his reaction to you wanting to leave, and you have decided you want to go, then start preparing, so you can just go.

Sorry, can't remember off hand your housing / financial position if you mentioned it, without scrolling back up (and am finding it tricky enough typing 1 handed, holding keyboard in other hand, sitting on floor, sleeping baby on lap!)

Check out Womens Aid website - there's a checklist of things to gather together like birth certificates, medical cards, bank details, passports or whatever. If you need to, start putting some money aside, that kind of thing. Speak to WA. Remember you really don't have to spend the rest of your life like this if you don't want to.

I saw a housing adviser today, recommended by the WA outreach worker, though turns out not really best person for advice on my situation. She did suggest putting myself on housing register for council property just in case house ends up being repossessed.

Have also found out about a Home Start family group which is run for people with kids under 5 who are living with stress - I think I might qualify! The co-ordinator said it's very nurturing, and I thought I could really do with some of that. The kids go and play while the adults chat.

Am also seeing a counsellor next week, again arranged through WA worker. And the housing adviser asked if wanted counselling for dd1 - thought might be good as she's affected by the arguments.

And my eldest sister also now knows about my situation, and she and bil are visiting this weekend to take me & dc out, and to discuss how they can support me.

Sorry Dietzma but he's still turning up each day, and let him stay 1 night when he was ill, but remained resolute and did not give in to him the following night. I know you're tutting at my feebleness, but I'm making progress, and I feel that by seeking out all the help I can, I'm more likely to succeed. I'm doing my best to concentrate on the needs of me & dc.

I told ex sis & bil would be here & he wanted to come out with us! I didn't tell him what I've said to them, but have said they know I'm in financial probs & they knew he had coke prob. He of course didn't want them knowing anything but I said I'm not going to deny myself help to make him feel better. And cannot understand why he'd want to be here as I avoid mentioning my family usually as he goes on and on about how awful they are & if I don't accept what he says then I am just being my typical defensive self, never putting him first by supporting his feelings, in denial, etc etc

sorry dizietsma - apologise for getting your name wrong

freeasabird - with you on the frustration - but just hang in there, you're doing brilliantly, you know he's trying to wear you down. Don't even let him see it's getting to you if possible

Onelife-

You aren't feeble, far from it! You've been dealing with all this awful financial pressure and abuse for a very long time, and you are still holding it together, that takes strength.

I wont give you a free pass on the letting him in the house issue, though, sorry. It's not feeble, but it's not very... wise.

It is frustrating hearing that you let him back in again and again, but I'm sorry that came across in my posts. It was my intention to support, not judge you. I do get that it's very difficult to emotionally disentangle from abusive relationships, and you are making progress, from what I hear. So pat yourself on the back for the progress, but don't let it make you complacent. There is still work to be done.

Oh, and don't worry about the name It's pretty obscure, no-one gets it right.

These losers take some getting away from dont they.Even when your away physically they still want control.
My benny hill freak is causing me serious stress. Not doing anything illegal but is doing his utmost to make life unbearable, is mostly financial and emotional still , and even though it affects him a lot more than me, he,ll do it anyway.

Went to a local womens centre today , found them on the womans aid site. They offer specialist lawyers, counselling, housing and just about anything you might need. She explained that as a new service user she would do a short questionaire to determine if i was at risk, just standard she said, to determine low, medium or high risk.Wasnt too concerned.

Mine came back high risk,and do i mind if she shares this information with other agencys , ie the police ect ? Worrying as hes now gone and hes never really been violent , when he tried i beat his fat face in .Seems due to certain charecteristics he has,, i am at risk.
She thinks i would benefit from more counselling as i tend to assume he is just a sad little turd and dont take his threats seriously., when in fact she thinks he has the potential to seriously harm me .She offered ctv cameras on the house , a security check,a vulnerable thing attatched to the phone line.

Thought it was all a little extreme and said so, which is when she suggested more counselling. Dont think it helps that he rang the other day hystericly screaming that id spoilt his life and threatend to come up and set fire to himself.
I dont take him seriously as hes always trying to blackmail me with this crap , maybe i should.

hopeful i would take her up on her offer because she prob has seen this countless of times and you never know...............

well today a phonecall from orson,and he dropped into the conversation that he isnt bothered that DD wont go to his house or stay overnight with him, hes happy as long as he can see her sat,sun afternoon and take her out for tea once a week.

-that will be because he thinks me having her at night will stop me from having a social life.

he also said he is "willing" to pick her up from school a "couple" of times a week.

erm thats not what we agreed,DD is disabled and we have a mobility car which he has as i havent passed my test yet (but im having lessons) we agreed that id take her in the mornings in a taxi (and flippin pay for it) and hed pick her up in the afternoon.

hes also wingeing about the fact that ive asked him for £20 maintenance money a week otherwise ill have to involve the CSA as im on benefits,i havent asked him for any money towards the car and i think ive been very fair with him.

my friends tell me im being a mug and not to give him any more money and ask him for half of the allowance i would get if i didnt have the car,but i know he,ll never go for that.

im just waiting for my benefits to go through and his name off the council tax and the rent and im filing for divorce,i cant wait!!!

thats when the shit will hit the fan.

freeasabird - I had a mobility car which my ex drove too. I only got it after he agreed to give me half of the allowance, but I never saw a penny of it because he stopped working due to his "nervous breakdown"

It gave me great pleasure to take back the car and now spend the money instead on myself and DD.

he had the cheek to say that he felt like "a chauffeur" and that he was "waiting to be summoned" all the time. Yeah right. He was driving a car for free, only paying paying petrol, which I paid for a lot of the time.

so now he has to get the bus [grin.

hopefull, please take note of what this woman says. If I were you I would take every support I was offered. I know you like to think of him as a joke, but he is clearly a very angry man and you never know what they'll do.

Freeasabird, Your womans centre could help you with the benefits if your not getting anywhere.I wish id known about them sooner instead of struggling on my own with beurocratic crap.

Benny Hill / Fatboy Slim texted earlier, with bogus message for the dcs despite the fact all the dcs have their own phones.He said " i know were not speaking at the minuite but blah blah ".

Umm no were not, due to your abusive fat mouth, love of call girls ect. Knew he was trying to engage me in yet more crap so didnt reply,,he then text again saying he couldnt have dcs at weekend as hes got plans.

Punishment for not engaging him and for starting divorce proceedings.
He can kiss my arse,,have dossed on the internet all night in peace, am sat in jammys with a blanket over my legs,,, am on my third packet of wotsits and its bliss. No comments about how fat i am,( all 9 and a half stone of me at 5,2), no smelling his farts, or suggestions that i bend over for him.
Sheer bliss.
Hows everyone else?

hello everyone,

well yesterday was a very hard day,we went to relate,
the lady asked me where did i see things going and i said DIVORCE.
she asked Orson and he nodded and started filling up, i DID NOT fall for the woe is me act.

I brought up the maintenance and she asked him did he realise how much the CSA would take from him and that i was being very reasonable considering he has the mobility car,she has also got him to agree to pick up DD each night from school.

however when we came out he said the sooner you pass your test the sooner you can have the car back and ill buy an old banger,then more stories about women being back at his place-oh but not for him you understand,no he doesnt have anything to do with them.

i just thought zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

so, ive been having driving lessons for a year,ive got a beautifual 1.9 zafira car and i cannot get over my phobia of hills,thats hills starts and stopping at the top of a very big hill near my house with traffic lights,my instructor says its the only thing letting me down and he cant put me in for my test till we,ve mastered it,and i dont know what to do.

hopefull-your message made me smile especially how you can do whatever you want to i love that part of being alone,im sat next to dd watching mickey mouse,and the peace is unreal