Emotional Abuse - can we talk abou t it and what it entails?

[Janos]

If we already have a thread on this then I apologise for bringing it all up again. Perhaps someone can let me know and if so I'll let the thread die quietly!

I just thought it would be helpful to talk about it, and what constitutes it so people who are in an emotionally abusive relationship could recognise what is going on as it can be so insidious and nasty, and more difficult to identify.

This is not for one moment to denigrate or draw attention away from physical or sexual abuse btw.

Topsy - just read your post. I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Where you can start is individual counselling - couples counselling doesn't work in an abusive relationship. Where you can go - unless your DP can sort himself out - is away. I've said this before on another thread, but emotional abuse is the death of a thousand cuts. Each cut might sound trivial to other people, but when you put them together you end up dead. Get out while you have some fight left

thank you. i have been to individual councelling - i was sent as hv said i had pnd after birth if ds2 and was put on ads. the councellor decided it wasn;t pnd but just depression. i then organised relate councelling last year which h agreed to as i said that the marriage would have to end if he didn't. we went and the he charmed the coucellor and i ended up feeling worse than before as it was made out to be all my fault. i now realise that i have been through every channel, and with the support of my family have come to the decision that we need to separate. however, what do i do now? i'm really fightened of backing down as i have in the past.

As MsMAttie said the mind games is the worst part i think.

My ex ;

-Played mind games all the time

• Provoked argument ie i would ask him if he wants coffee or tea and he d say 'you deside' then i make him tea and he says 'you ve made mistake again'

• pushed me to the end and then when i react he d say that i am mad woman or 'nagging too much'

• He would push me to anger whith all his unreasonable behave but stayed calm and cold so i did apear like mad woman

• He kept telling me that all our friends are jelous of our relatioship (classic)

• He behaved very well in front of my family so when i told them i am leaving him they thought i m mad

• These men make you feel that its smth wrong with you. You make men unhappy, you dont know how to make your man happy, you are insecure, clingy, mad, etc. It is all your fault. And somehow you believe it and end up apologising to them every time

out of the house, or could you go somewhere else? How many DCs are there and what ages? You can work this out. You realise that you need to get yourself and the DCs outside his influence, so it comes down to the practicalities. I've never been to them myself, but I understand that Womens Aid are very good in these cases, including emotional abuse as they realise that you don't have to have bruises to be battered IYSWIM. Maybe give them a call?

I was lucky - no kids, and a family (and friends) that were delighted to see me again... But if you have kids, and people that have been taken in by him, then it gets harder. Talk to people in RL about the practicalities, and then maybe come back here to vent/get reminders about why you're leaving? MN is great for support, and there are a lot of women here who will want to help you through...

That last post was for Topsy...

While we're listing behaviours, I still remember (with complete bewilderment) a half-hour interrogation about why the tea and sugar jars were reversed in the cupboard. Because 'we' didn't keep them that way round so obviously someone else had been there (even though we'd both been out at work) and it would be fine if I could just be honest...

topsy the first thing you must do is to make an appointment with a good family law solicitor for immediate advice and for how to take things forward
this will immediately make you feel in control of the situ.and also clearer regarding what lies ahead which i feel will help you alot
i obv.don't know about your financial situ.but depending on your own(not h's)circumstances you might poss.be eligble for legal aid,and also alot of solicitors offer this first advisory 30mins-hour free

Haven't got time to post now but this is a great idea for a thread Janos. We all dive in on other threads when people are suffering emotional and verbal abuse with our own examples but I think it would be great to maybe have some sort of ongoing thread people could refer to.

Thank you... thank you... thank you.... this is such an amazing thread...So much of what has been written here rings true for me. Whilst my H does not call me names, shout at me or be outwardly abusive towards me, the subtle digs, the comments about friends, telling me I'm mad when he has pushed those buttons once too many times, talking in a calm and ordered way when he knows he is winding me up, going behind my back and discussing our marriage to his family (who have now all cut me from their lives as they think I am mad and unreasonable), critising people I know to me, telling me people are jealous of me/us, telling me when I got my much longed for job as a returning teacher "you'd better not go and have an affair", purposely not doing little jobs around the house that he knows upsets me... the list could go on and on.
If you try to tell people how you feel and how miserable you are, they look at you in complete bewilderment as they see Mr Calm/laid back and me as the moody horrid one.....
I could write a book about this...... thank you for starting this thread... I know I'm not mad (or evil and wicked as my MIL called in front of the children) and it really helps seeing that other people have or are going through the same things.... although I wish we weren't.

Thanks fleur, that's what I thought. I felt I was taking over the other thread a bit with my own stories and felt it would be a be a good idea to have somewhere where we could talk about it without hijacking, IYSWIM.

Something else that has come to mind. If I tried to talk to him about anything, he would sit there calmly saying 'stop shouting, I can't understand you, stop raising your voice' - even if I wasn't.

Unfortunately this would wind me up to screaming pitch - and I am really not a screamer or a shouter - which I KNOW was bad behaviour on my part.

He was then able to dismiss me as being hysterical and screechy and noit worthy of being listened to to.

And another thing - I always ended up apologising, even if I hadn't done anything wrong.

You know, there are so many other things..and I bet everyone else has plenty of 'stories' like this too.

"If you try to tell people how you feel and how miserable you are, they look at you in complete bewilderment as they see Mr Calm/laid back and me as the moody horrid one...."

Oh yes, I know that one. Friends used to think we had an ideal relationship!

For a very long time I also thought that was the case (I didn't have any previous serious relationships to compare it to)and just didn't understand why I was so unhappy.

Really glad this thread has helped fluxy.

I think for me, the big thing was having other people understand and say 'this happened to me too' cos often you do feel you are going mad, and imagining things, don't you? Well I did at least.

Anyway have prattled on enough..3 posts!

Absuletely Janos and Fluxi

You end up believing that you are mad or hysterical! But they are the ones with the problem.

Fluxi i am glad this thread is helping you. Because as others have said emotional abuse is so hard to deal with, you dont even have the -visible- bruises.

Also it is very true what a poster said earlier : '..it creeps on so slowly by the time you admit it you are so down..'
So true.

I get told I've imagined conversations. Previously I've been given time limits on how long I'm aloud to speak for if it's about something he's not interested in. When he gets angry about something it's my fault.

I've not long realised he's been emotionally abusing me for years. It's just started to escalate into more (whole other thread which I getting alot of help and support on)

It is a big comfort to read others experiences who have managed to get away from this. And also to hear of those who are currently in the same situation- takes away the feeling of being alone.

I had this for 20 years, at the end when he realised his control was slipping he became violent, I had him arrested and he never came back in my house. He asked to speak to me a couple of weeks later to tell me "I never really loved you, I just didn't want anyone else to love you"

Anyway I have a lovely Dh now and have never been happier, just wanted to say there is light at the end of the tunnel, but sometimes it just takes a while to get there.

That's right GumsNRoses. Once you realise how much better life is without them there's no going back

are there any happy endings? my baby is just 4 mo old. i thought we had a good rel, but he is jekyll and hyde. i cant bear the idea of splitting up but whenhe is angry with me all ti=his stuff comes out. He tells me i am mad (history of mild depresssion/anxiety) and need to go back on pills. tells me i am wrong or lying or making things up. tells me i am screaming at him when i am not, his transference is truly incredible. everything he is doing he claims that i am but so convincingly i get confused and frustrated and cant argue back. we went to relate but came out with him thinking he was right ad i was wrong (and the cousellor agreed with this). i genuinely doubt myself, my sanity, my ability as a mum.....he is now threatening to try and take baby away. he is desperate to wean her and i think its so he can remove her. and yet, and yet - he is normally a wonderful, funny, lovely caring man and he dotes on his dd. I wish i could understand this behaviour so we could try and make things work. btw he would tell you that everything i have said is how I behave.....I dont know what to think anymore. so is there any good news?

Yes, there is good news namechanged.

I do feel for you.

Can I just say, firstly - no-one in their right mind would allow a young baby to be taken away from their mum (obviously excepting cases where there is abuse). Are you still breast feeding? Do you want to keep doing it? Then you keep on doing it. There's nothing wrong with that - in fact there's a lot right with it!

Can I just explain something which you may find helpful - "Relate" with men like your DP/H is pretty pointless - because they simply don't think they are in the wrong. Often they are good at projecting the 'right' image, superficially, of a caring loving partner. They are very manipulative. Also remember Relate counsellors are just human too and aren't equipped to deal with people like this.

And of course he has a good side. If these men didn't have a good side then we wouldn't stay with them!

What would you like to happen?

Namechanged i hope you are ok.

I agree with Janos about Relate.

I think the best you can do with these men is to keep strong and not to let him know that his tactics work.

In my case i didnt have children with ex so it was fairly easy to leave him when i got very tired of his behave. However my sister who had a Ds with her also emotionally abusive DH after trying everything including counselling she just did the 'shake him' tactic one day. Picked her stuff and came to stay at mine. She was not planning to leave him, but she told him she might do just to shake him and it worked. I am not suggesting to do it, it might backfire, everybody is different, but you have to find your own way

oh God, this is starting to ring bells with me too. It is very subtle but the death of a thousand cuts thing -

We have digs about how dull I am since becoming a SAHM, how much money I spend despite not bringing in any myself, how I am a "wuss" if I ever show the slightest fear or hesitation over doing anything, digs about my mothering skills and how the dc's only ever misbehave for me (one of our dc's has SN so this is particularly painful) and putdowns about my weight disguised as "jokes."

He does virtually nothing around the house due to him being a high earner and having a very important job that makes him too superior for household activities. If there is any opportunity to get out of helping with bathtime or teatime, he'll sneak off upstairs and spend half an hour in the loo playing on his blackberry, or have a lie down. I clearly can't bang on the bathroom door to get him to come out but it isn't fair.

We also have deliberate and imo dangerous driving (tailgating, speeding and overtaking without enough safe distance) which he knows makes me squirm and scares me. He usually won't let me drive him although I'm starting to realise I need to insist.

This morning he thought it hilarious to throw the cushions I keep on the bed at high speed into my face as I lay dozing. If I say it hurts I get the wuss comments again.

I am reminded on a monthly basis that he isn't really all that happy with life (ie me). He now can't stand my family, although tolerates my friends. The worst thing at the moment is how charming he can be to others, he was chatting and laughing on the phone to our neighbour the other day, and as he put the phone down I tried to continue the cheery conversation and got stonewalled.

But - does all this actually constitute emotional abuse or am I just overreacting to a selfish man who can behave immaturely? It's so difficult to know when you're in the situation.

SOTR, I remember you from other threads. It sounds horrible what he puts you though, I certainly don't think it's normal or acceptable. I also know the feeling of confusion when they are chatting away to others and being all nice. I have started to resent the people he is nice to (neighbours, acquaintances of his etc) as I feel irrationally that they should somehow KNOW what he is really like and be less friendly. But of course they have no idea - and meanwhile I come across as the sullen, shy, introverted one. I just can't stand the pretense (I am moving out tomorrow, really nervous) and so I say next to nothing to anyone when we are talked to as a 'couple'.

Just in case anyone wonders, I may not be on MN for a few weeks due to moving, I need to get internet set up in the new place. So if I don't post for a while, hopefully all is well and I'm settling in. I'll post on this thread again if it's still going when I am all sorted.
Wish me luck I can't believe I'm really doing it!

Good luck cheefulvicky - I didn't realise you were still with him! Do you have it all planned out?

SOTR I think I recall some of your other posts (how about that for vague)? Your comment about death by a thousand cuts is very appropriate I think.

I'd say what he is doing sounds emotionally abusive. Agree with Dittany that he sounds like a bully - throwing cushions into your face FFS!

hi there - can i firstly just apologise for the poor grammar and typos! i am nursing so it is all one handed. - i am normally reasonably eloquent and accurate

janos (et al) thanks for your posts. it helpsto know why counselling did not work. i was just so grateful that he had gone that i was far too diplomatic in telling how things could be. i was self-deprecatingly honest in my own responses and willing (doh!) to take so much on board myself that the extent of his meanness went untold. when i did try to say that i felt there were lines in the sand beyond which arguing couples should not cross (i.e him constantly tellig me i was exactly like my alcoholic dad with whom i had a very troubled hurt filled relationship - he knew this was the deepest wound he could inflict, now my dad is dead and it has been replaced with threats to take away my dd ) the counsellor just turned and grilled me on why i felt there had to be lines in the sand).

anyway, i digress but to answer the question, what i would like is fr him to tske on board that those hrtful things he says in snger dont just get unsaid sfter the fight is over. that his temper and the things he says erode the foundation of our marriage and that the line in the sand (i have thought about this now) is about simple respect for another human being. he would not be this nasty to anyone else in the world, so why me? his wife ? i would like him to know that there are ways with dealing with his own emotional pain and discomfort which do not include lashing out at those he holds dear. i want for disagreements not to descend inevitably into painful, hate-filled, screaming matches. i want disagreements to be about the subject of the disagreement, not about my dad, or my previous failed relationships or my fsilings and character flaws as a person and mother. i want him to reflect thast sometimes he is wrong - dont just lash out because its aggression ois the best form of defence....but then, my 2lack of self awareness" and my "selfishness" is his biggest cudgel.

sorry. epic. if you got this far have a cup of tea and a biscit.