Emotional Abuse - can we talk abou t it and what it entails?

[Janos]

If we already have a thread on this then I apologise for bringing it all up again. Perhaps someone can let me know and if so I'll let the thread die quietly!

I just thought it would be helpful to talk about it, and what constitutes it so people who are in an emotionally abusive relationship could recognise what is going on as it can be so insidious and nasty, and more difficult to identify.

This is not for one moment to denigrate or draw attention away from physical or sexual abuse btw.

He says he knows how he was treating me was wrong. He says he'll do anything to fix it (apart from the one thing I asked him to do - counselling; he says he doesn't need it because he already knows he was wrong).

He says I need to get over it and concentrate on how he treats me now, not how he used to be. (Which is a lot better, I do now feel in control, I see my friends when I like, wear what I like, spend what I like etc) I moved back in. But I can't forget how he treated me, so I can't stand him to touch me. I still need to leave again don't I? (no dc, joined MN when TTC)

When my ds, 2 at the time had a mark on his arm from what I don't know, he closely questioned him about what had happened saying things like "it is ok to tell the truth, you won't be in trouble", looking at me with a suspicious look on his face implying that I had caused it.

Telling me it was my fault that ds had autism and before he was diagnosed telling me that "you want ds to have autism so you can lots of attention from doctors and your family". Alongside this telling me I was "obsessed" with doctors and the medical profession because I kept pushing for a diagnosis.

Telling me that no-one liked me, his friends and family are embarassed by me and don't know what to make of me. Pulling faces to his parents behind my back when I used to speak. Always picking on me at his parents house when I couldnt make a scene but very quietly so no-one heard. I did lose it a couple of times and was labelled unstable and a nag by his parents.

This is the hardest thing to describe but just the constant little actions and comments designed to let me know how unimportant I was to him. I find this a struggle to type because I don't know if it sounds silly. For example he would come charging down the stairs to say hello to dd and I would be standing there with loads of shopping waiting to come up (lived in a flat). He would take ages and ages with her without even acknowledging me while I stood there with shopping and if I said anything would look at me with "surprise" and say but I am just saying hello to dd. Making a massive deal out of greeting the dc but hardly even acknowledging me. Never asking me how I was if he phoned during the day, just asking about the kids and thats it.

Being completely disinterested in anything I had to say. Telling me how boring I was and that I had an annoying voice and he wished I would just shut up.

Telling me that he couldnt stand to look at me when I had had bad news ie my grandmother dying, or finding out my Mum was in hospital after an angina attack, because my face went all white and shocked and it wound him up.

Doing anything to persuade me not to do the things I wanted if they would inconvenience him in anyway. I don't think we EVER went into a shop that I wanted to look in when we were out but we always went in his. If I tried to he got angry and would escalate an argument in order to storm off.

"Taking" me shopping and telling me I didn't need any money in my pocket for the week because all the shopping had been done after I gave up work to look after ds.

If I ever asked him to take dc out alone, which he hated doing because it was "hard work", he would start out quietly furious but by the end after I would not be persuaded to come be calling me abusive disgusting names. I was apparently lazy because I did not want to come but wanted to catch up on housework or have some time to myself instead instead.

Being unfaithful on numerous occasions.

Many many more.

thankgoditsnotjustme - it makes me sad that there are others going thru this but then it does help to know that its not just you!

The easiest way to set my dh off is to repond to a question as to why something happened with "it just....slipped, fell, whatever".

Nothing is ever an accident in his book. It is always something I have deliberately done. I thought that having some arguments when you were married was normal but I never dreamed that ours would be about such trivia.

We are in a lovely "bout of normality" at the moment but of course I am always wondering what it will be that will set him off.

Oh yes the blaming. My ex h used to say that "someone needs to be bought to book and held accountable", whenever things went wrong. Only it wasn't someone it was always me. He would always manage to find a way to blame me whatever went wrong.

I am afraid that I might be or have been or have the capacity to be emotionally abusive.
I had an emotionally abusive partner (I think now - the one I write about last night) and I didn't recognise it. Now I am afraid that I might have done some things that are emotionally abusive because I didn't realise what I was doing: getting unfairly angry about little things, losing my temper, ranting, etc. I feel under a lot of pressure sometimes and sometimes it seems like there is no way out of all the relentless tasks and always having to be somewhere doing something and I can never be good enough and no one is backing me up. However, I am now pg and having a bit of a hard time with it (SPD etc), and everyone is being nice to me at work, DP cooking a lot, etc. Since I have been pg I have found it a lot easier to be reasonable, I think partly because I think people are trying to be reasonable and compassionate to me and the demands they make on me. I struggle with depression and sometimes it seems like the demands are just too much and endless and life is just stretching ahead as a series of things I have to do and can't manage while others benefit from them, and there is no wiggle room for me no matter how desperate I get. I don't feel like that now, I feel that there are people on my side, and it makes me nicer. I am sorry - so sorry - for all the times I have been really horrible to people who love me but I have no way to ask for help when I am desperate in some way that people can't immediately see and understand.

My ex has left my life today for what I hope is the last time.

I am so stressed i weigh just under 8 stone.

He has been a pig, no concessions to what I wanted if we were to move forward, and accusing me of controlling him when I tried to talk about it.

He occasionally works with OW (who he supposedly left to come back to me)and I was iffy about this but he admitted she might occasionally come to his house - but never alone - I said that didnt work for me.

He wouldnt wear the ring I'd bought him previously, even though he had said he would when we got back together. His excuse was that it was tainted. When I still didnt back down he said that he had worn it while making love to another woman.

That hit home and made me cry. I was sitting on the floor and he then called me stupid for not seeing his point.

I said "I'm sitting here crying and you're calling me stupid?" he then left saying "Dont contact me"
I said I wouldnt, and threw his ring out the window after him.
He texted and said it had rolled into a drain, and then texted "Last chance to b with me"

I didnt reply.

An hour or so later he started calling me.

I turned my phone off.

Later when I turned it back on there were three messages saying that he would do whatever it took to be with us, and if I wanted to talk about it I could come to his. Just text yes or no, then "i take it you are not interested" then "Please answer"

I was torn, but I thought "That's the small kindness perception isnt it?" Its all bollocks.

Later "Ok I get the message"

I am really trying here. I want him out of my life. This morning I woke up feeling so confused and unsafe and I thought "If that's the reality of being with him, I think I'd rather face the big scary wide world on my own"

What he had to offer me:

Ad hoc meetings as and when he was free

If DD and I stayed at his we would probably have to leave early as thats when he works - in the morning. DD is nearly one.

Being completely sidelined in his life.

So he is just trying to hook me back in.
Mr "Come closer so I can slap you"

I think he is still seeing OW.

I cant do this anymore. I feel ill and exhausted and I am praying he has given up contacting me even though in typical abused-woman fashion I feel terrified at the thought.

I also suspect that he just wanted me in his life so he could take my money and use my credit cards. (he pointedly said about how much time he had to waste getting train tickets etc because he didnt have a credit card)

However, anything is better than how I felt this morning.

This is the same man who told me that he hoped would I die the night before DD was born, that the world didnt revolve around me, that I was a shit person and that our baby didnt deserve such a shit mother.

My head is completely toasted. I am just trying to stay strong.

Should add that he stayed last night but slept in other room. What was the point of that? I tried to get in beside him and he let me cuddle him but I was too scared of rejection to ask for anything else.
After a few minutes I got out and went to my own bed with him telling me that I didnt have to worry and we would talk about it later. We could just take it slow. That just made me feel rejected and manipulated instead of reassured.

I just think he is trying to stay "faithful" to OW, who he said was a "full-blown love affair and I should understand that"

Somebody tell me that this man is abusive and I am well-rid, I am too confused and heartbroken.

Madame Ovary, you need to forget about this man.

I know it is easier said than done.

You and your dd deserve better than this. You can be happy on your own or with someone else but he can never make you happy.
Take it a bit at a time - but start moving, don't stay where you are.
Well done for not taking the calls.
Don't give him any money or let him use your cards.

I feel more and more angry and upset reading these posts, so many people being abused by selfish, manipulative, arrogant, bullies who manage to hide what they are like by doing it behind closed doors.

There is a huge taboo about talking about this stuff in RL. I never talked to anyone about it, except for my mum as she is perceptive and always saw through my XH. He hates her and is still trying all he can to stop her from seeing the children - claimed in an email to me this morning that he thought they might be being sexually abused at her house - a monstrous allegation based on NOTHING

Great and very valuable thread Janos - it has made me want to talk about it far more in RL too.

Thank you Vezzie. Still hanging In there. Not contacted him.

Should add that Women's Aid have been brilliant at providing outreach support so please consider them should you need to talk to someone.

fleurlechante I so identify with so much you are saying. My H is like a slightly more subtle version of yours by the sounds of it.

I think the need to blame seems to be a constant in this. H manages to take the credit for anything good, if the dc's do anything new, he's always "taught them" it. He always claims to know things, but with hindsight iyswim. If anything bad happens it's somehow my fault. I'd once put the chain on the front door as ds was asleep upstairs and we were in the back garden, as he'd told me to do. He then came along and ripped it off the frame by pulling open the door without taking the chain off first. That was obviously my fault for not warning him to look.

He works away from home a lot. Once he left a pile of papers on the gas hob, returned 5 days later and went mad because I'm always moving things. I start feeling sick if I know he's looking for something, or if he has to do anything like put a shelf or picture up. He moans and chunters so much it's really unpleasant to be around.

And the time thing rings a bell also. If I've arranged to go out he will remember something urgent he has to go out and do just before I need to leave, and then return as late as possible so I leave in a stress. I can never get hold of him.

If I'm on the phone and he's trying to get through he will either ring my mobile repeatedly or have a go at me for tying up the line when he does get through. I don't know if he expects me to be psychic.

It's worrying that people remember my previous posts. This is my relationship posting name, I post more under my other name but wanted to be anonymous as it's so personal. I think I'm getting closer to resolving this. This thread is giving me a lot of strength but I'm so sorry for everyone who is going through it, it sucks.

My H can spoil every outing/event/trip.
We went out a few weeks ago with friends. At the last minute he didn't want t o go,saying I had behaved badly that day so he didn't want t o go out.
He then decided to 'join' us later,leaving me to make excuses.
Everyone else had lovely night,enjoyed meal etc.
Not him.
Our children never tell him anything now,as he has no praise or enthusiasm for anything.
Living with someone like this is soul destroying,it really is.

That's very reassuring to hear Mme Ovary - I work for Women's Aid and I see hundreds of women pass through our doors every year, both seeking refuge and seeking support and I like to think that we help every one of them t feel better about the experience.

While i was on the receiving end of emotional abuse i didnt actually realise just how bad it was, and i would often make various excuses for him.
Since ive kicked him out i realise how soul destroying it actually was and how much it affected me , and how much pleasure he got from it.
My ex had a number of ways to abuse me, but something that started quite early on was him relaying some negative comment that someone had "apparently" said about me. I ended up losing all confidence .
Mine referred to me for years as an fxxxxxx evil bxxxx who was trying to ruin his life.

He would also make personal " jokes " about me that were actually an insult, of course if i objected i was being too sensitive. He would fly into rages claiming it was me being abusive and chant the same thing over and over screaming into my face.
Always " forgot " things and was just " thoughtless ". If i ever wanted to discuss anything he would fly into a rage and yell that were not having this conversation.
God just remembering this is getting me angry !

Something awful,,,towards the end he became sexually abusive,,, openly so , but i realise that in fact hed been doing this for years, but again claiming he was just clumsy,, he would hurt me then explode when i objected yelling that all i did was criticise him. I was regularly on the receiving end of lewd disgusting sexual comments desighned to huiliate me and degrade me.
I could not bathe or shower in peace and he would come in and go out of his way to smirk at me and make horrid comments. Something i now realise is that the more i objected the more he did it.

Ive been seeing a counseller whos brilliant but theres still days id happily beat him senseless for the crap ive put up with.

Another thing, my ex idiot kept a diary about me,,read through the phone bill and would smirk while doing so, and someone else mentioned this, sleeping arrangements.

He would drink heavily despite the fact he snored terribly and would accuse me of not loving him if i refused to sleep next to him. He had no regard for the fact that i was regularly sleep deprived.

In disagreements he would say anything possible to shut me up, often making bizarre claims that id abused him in some way, sexually or verbally.

He also controlled all finances , i didnt have access to even 1 penny. Aparently all i had to do was ask !
Also i was crap in bed, no one liked me, i was a fat fxxxxxc ect.

My counseller summed it up a while ago , explaining that although he looks like an adult, hes not, hes still a small boy emotionally.
Oh yes, whenever i pointed out he was being abusive he would sneer " yes, and why " ,, or " i only do it to you ".

Not any more he doesnt !

Glad to help promote Womens Aid mrspnut the work you do is livesaving.
One thing have realized that he started doing was saying how lovely OW was, it was clearly to keep me in line. Fortunately by this time I was looking for ways to be gone. It hurt so much that he loves OW how he loved me at the start of our relationship, despite being a working woman she "looks after him" by doing the cooking and cleaning and laundry.
God I feel sick to think about it. He really is a misogynist. He even forbids her from talking about religion or politics because it's annoying.
It is all so difficult and painful but the idea that I will never have to see his face again - this person who caused me so much pain and only thinks of himself - just feels so good.
Already I feel better. I have put up affirmations on the walls to keep positive and this thread is just part of the good stuff that's helping me stay focussed.
I am so sorry to everyone who is going through this. We all deserve better.

Is there a difference between deliberate emotional abuse and someone who probably doesn't seem to be a very nice person? And just thinks their views are right?

To all those who wonder if early traumas are ?to blame? for their partners toxic behaviour?my ex had some shocking traumas happen to him throughout his life, including being left in an isolation hospital as a child and an early marriage where he says he was abused daily.

When we got together it was magical, I felt so loved and taken care of, but the abusive behaviour started almost immediately?if I wanted to sleep in another room because he snored he would accuse me of leaving him and say he needed to be looked after. I was accused of flirting with/fancying just about everyone. Once after a night out with his friends he wrenched the towel I was holding from my hand and shouted ?You fancy my mate!?
It was as if he was a 14 year old boy and would have been funny had he not been so intimidating. That was just the start, it got a lot worse.

Unfortunately enabled his behaviour on a daily basis by understanding where his anger came from and trying to help him, and he has gone on to tell OW about these traumas too so she feels sorry for him and is even more keen to look after him.

HOWEVER my point is, if you read the Lundy Bancroft book you understand that WHATEVER has happened to a person it is NO EXCUSE for treating anyone else with cruelty or disrespect.

Abuse is about beliefs and values. These men believe that they are ENTITLED to treat u s way, which is why, if we protest about their behaviour, they resent it and accuse us of trying to control them.

That was pretty eye-opening for me.

Everything is about choice. They choose to treat us this way. We choose to stay, usually because they grind us down to the point where we feel all free will and energy has gone.
Please do not think for one minute I don?t know how hard it is to leave. Right this second I am fighting every urge to contact him and end these terrible feelings of abandonment and grief , but I cant go through what has happened again, I just cant.

Unbelievably I still love him, but it could never work. I know it would get worse, not better.

I know if I stay away that DD and I have a chance to be genuinely happy on our own
I have found this thread to be very useful and supportive. Thank you Janos for starting it and to all who post. Love and strength to you.

Why does it hurt so much? To have been so unhappy and felt so small for so long, and tried so hard. Why when I just wanted to be so badly on my own to sort my head out am I so terrified?
I could cry and cry and cry and do.

He can be so very nice and it cuts.

How can you be one thing and then another?

I have been so lonely. had my point of view sneered at, my fear of confrontational situations scorned. Listened to the dismissive impatient tones he uses with the children, and told they deserved it for the way they behaved when I challenged it. Had the jealousy and possessiveness and accused of a series of indiscretions. I have never been unfaithful.

I feel like I am going to break down sometimes. We are still in the same house due to finances but are estranged and I feel calm, sad, but calm when I am on my own.

If we can say as women that a partners behaviour has turned us into something we are not...then maybe I have done that to him. He was and is an amazing father to his other DC's but with ours not so. Why?

14 years. The sadness is unbearable. Talk to no-one in RL. My mum and dad have refused to discuss it as dad says it is not their business to get involved in our marriage.

I just want, unrealistically, to be held and have it all go away. Not to break my DC's hearts. It is such a huge thing and I feel so very very small. Each time he uses a tone of voice with DC's I think he can not change and then he has a moment with them that is good and i feel torn, but the balance is so unpredictable from one day to the next.

Is that how life is? Maybe this is normal and there is something wrong with me, maybe my expectations are too high.

Don't expect answers. I know I have to find them. So very scared though and lost.

I agree that emotionally abusive people can be very damaged. I believe that my EA ex believed, simultaneously, that women are fickle and not nurturing enough and that they exist to look after his needs. I think he had a lonely cold scary harsh childhood involving his mother being abused and unavailable, and I don't think he is capable of seeing a woman he is in a relationship with as a person in her own right - only as someone who he exists to make him feel better, and also to take his resentment and fear out on. I also agree that this excuses nothing.

I am interested that so many people also talk about sleep deprivation, I haven't heard other people talk about that before and thought that was one of my ex's special things. Probably there is not much variation between people of this type - the same things keep coming up.

Reality - like you, I only realised a lot of this was unacceptable afterwards when I was in a relationship with someone else who was lovely. I jokingly posted about him (now an ex too) on the "gross men" thread - including that we were engaged to be marred. Some mn-ers said "WHY?" - he was an absolute sweetheart and complimented me every day, was loyal, truthful, generous, reasonable, helpful, and a lovely warm confidant. So you can see why I didn't care that he pissed in the bath!

TMW I totally understand - I am facing the reality that he might be gone from my life for good, and I am also terrified.
What keeps me going is that this is the point at which my life can begin, that what I feel is normal, that I deserve better and so does my beautiful DD.
My heart goes out to you. If you were here I would happily give you a huge hug.