Mother in law making me feel like sh*t (bit long)

[HarryB]

Don't know where to start and feel so down. I am a first time mum and had a pretty traumatic induction and labour which ended in a c-section. When DS was born, he had some initial breathing problems which I hear is common after a c-section, but it really put the wind up me, so I'm a bit worried and check DS breathing alot. We have a monitor etc for his cot as I personally believe in using technology if it is available to you, for peace of mind. The MiL, however, is always making digs about it. In fact, she is always making digs about everything from how often I feed him, to him having a dummy (I give one as last resort as he is a real thumb sucker; she thinks dummies are gross), to am I giving him water inbetween feeds, to what he is wearing in bed and how I lay him to sleep (I lay him on his back, she tries to lay him on his side), to the fact that I let him cry for 2 seconds today whilst I put his bib on, and she said "forget the bib, just feed him". She lives really close too and pops round when she wants. DS is 8 weeks old and I haven't, or can't even contemplate letting her look after him as I know she would ignore everything I say regarding his care as soon as my back is turned. She thinks today's guidelines are rubbish and really is in the "didn't do us any harm" camp. The worst thing she does though, is say how good a dad my husband is, and then has a subtle dig at me by saying "he's so calm around him and you have to be calm around babies as they sense when you're not". Now, I am far from frantic, and think I could be doing an ok job, I just believe in taking precautions and following guidelines set by professionals rather than a 70 year old that last looked after children 40 years ago. I am so sick of her making me feel like a bad mum and find that I am second guessing myself because I have her comments in the back of my mind. I am thinking of moving (but then I would be leaving a house we have spent a lot of money on and that I love, and great schools). I have said to hubby to talk to her but I think he's abit scared of upsetting her. She is a widow and has nothing in her life but her children.

New to mumsnet.Observed for months but had to join when I saw this.Went through all the over enthusiastic/overbearing/first grandchild mil situation with DS1....another 2 children and 10 years later and I still feel when I think about it now.Tactless comments ,not giving crying ds back,"You dont need your mum" from mil etc etc.Wish I'd had mumsnet to vent back then.Wish I'd been brave enough to say what I thought to her instead of me stewing and her digging her heels in even more. Luckily we get on better now that theyre not babies any more.

HarryB - I love the WW2 commnet. Stock up with the feeling you had when you said that and some more similar comments and go for it girl!

I would also devise a very busy social calendar and ensure that you won't be 'available' for more than 2 hrs a week - and if she outstays her welcome, just be blunt - 'sorry, I'm going to have to get ready for x now, so I will have to say goodby until next week... ' etc.

Just remember your dh is her ds. My mil has annoyed me on numerous occasions - arrived uninvited in the maternity ward when I had just given birth to dd and - as we were living abroad at the time - was there when I came home for the first week or so. She doesn't do things the way I do - basically because she's not my mother. She did annoy me at the time - mercifully we were out of the country, but that meant any visits were necessarily long. Two years later ds was born and it struck me that one day I might be in her position - offering advice to a new mother who wasn't my daughter (and lets be honest any of us who post on here like to give a bit of advice) and in that moment I felt a new sympathy for her. She still annoys me from time to time with some ridiculous comments (and she has come out with some crackers ), but I've come to the conclusion that she can't have been such a terrible mum if she produced dh.

Liliangish, I too looked at it from the angle of if she produced dh then she can't be that bad. I think it's since her husband died, she has nothing to do, so my baby is her project. I understand that - it's the digs I can't live with. I think it may all stem from jealousy because she is probably watching us starting out and it reminds her of her past life. Also, I know, and she knows I know, that if dh had to choose between us, it would be me (with or without DS)

Bloody good on you re WW2 comment - ha! Wish I'd been that quick when my DS was new!

Congratulations on your baby. It sounds like you are doing a fabulous job - and I still get arsey with the ILs when they don't give DS2 back when he's crying, and he's nearly 7 months and number two! Don't ever apologise for being "over anxious", it's bollocks, it's how you feel and it's generally nature's way of making sure you look after your baby well!

Echo what other people have said, if you don't nip it now you will still be beating yourself up years down the line. And it won't get better, you need to do it now. Whether DH agrees or not, it's upsetting you and he should act. I know how hard it is to deal with this crap and I really wish you all the best. Good luck, you can do it.

Didn't mean to in any way diminish how annoying she must be. My mil was widowed a couple of years before dd was born - I know exactly what you mean about the baby being her project. I actually felt quite sorry for mine - she really wanted me to need her and the fact is I didn't. Even today, dd (now 7) has gone away with the school for a few days and she made some remark about her being amazingly self-contained and independent considering I never left her with anyone!! I think your mil could be a great help to you eventually if she has time on her hands - and I speak as someone who had no family near me when my children were babies.

Just wanted to throw my two pence worth in, my parents are like this. My DD is 4 now and they've always been the same. I wish I'd nipped it in the bud.

What actually happened was after months and months of their little digs I finally lost it and we had a big row. After that they were better for a while (they preceded all criticism advice with 'Oh we're not allowed to give advice are we'?)but soon back to normal. Even now they do it and it erodes your confidence which you don't need.

So I think my rambling point is - try to sort it (or get DH to sort it) as soon as you can.

LilianGish, you didn't diminish it at all. Like you, I think MiL is shocked that I don't need her, like her own daughter did. Jeez, get them together and it's in stereo. Why isn't DS in his own room yet? Why am I feeding him every 3 hours instead of 5? But that's another story.

My mil hated the fact that I was breastfeeding - she would say things like: "The trouble with breast feeding is noone else can do it for you" - what she meant was she couldn't do it. Actually it was probably down to her that I breast fed for so long! Mine is much better now the children are older - in fact she's often quite complimentary about the way they have turned out (in spite of my not doing anything her way!) also I am now much less sensitive about it.

Look you don't need to put yourself in mil's shoes. You won't be offering advice to your dil until she asks for it.

My fil has just passed away and I'm now getting mil to stay on an open ticket (OMG). She's a baby herself and I'm lumbered. She's playing on her berevement. Although I feel sorry for her, fil was with another woman for 16 years and spent the last 8 years living with the other woman. So mil's situation has not changed - she's no more 'alone' than she was prior to this. My ds barely new his grandad as she blocked most contact. But now she's 100% for my little one to point where she answers when he calls for mummy.

Your husband shouldnt have ANY issues dealing with your mil in a diplomatic way. I've got to say that my dh and mil have been shitty to me (well documented here) - and very disrepectful to my mum.HOWEVER, I have stopped my mum from expressing her increasing dislike of my dh and her concern over his parenting skills to my dh as I don't think it's right she do that (well, not right now - lol). I don't find it hard at all.

You're a decent woman. He needs to do this for you. What's the difficulty? Why do so many men allow their mums licence to be so difficult and when their wives tackle the issue get all defensive. I have a bit of a theory when it comes to babies and mils - my ds inspite of seeing my mum less seems to have a bit of rapport and I wonder whether it's because ds taps in to anything associated with mummy, the main carer. Possibly mils pick up on this and possibility feel they need to compensate by being more in the middle of things? That's certainly the case with my mil. She tries so hard and although ds does like her - he seems to gel more with my mum who is far more relaxed about getting hugs and cuddles from him whereas my mil will demand cuddles and kisses as 'she feels she needs one' and then when ds won't play along she will actually cry. Dunno what others think and their experiences.

However, Harry - your mil is taking away precious bonding time and you are responsible for not letting her get you. Get that dh of yours on the case - a short sharp word making it very clear that you're not hormonal but her words are unhelpful and insenstive - you've had a hard time and would like to concentrate on your georgeous new baby (well done you - how wonderful) and not on trying to defend yourself from her interfering and barbed comments. You've just had major surgery haven't you? A c-section is actually major surgery harry.

If your husband does not tackle this you will end up demonising her and a civil future relationship will be all the more difficult and you'll be resentful.

Checking your baby's breathing is far more important than dealing with her. Don't deal with her - get dh to deal with the problem.

Harry, you sound like a bloody saint, frankly. I'd have lost my temper long before this. However, maybe the fact that I would have done is what protected me from the worst my MIL would have thrown at me had she not been slightly scared of me. As it was, she had plenty of things to say about breastfeeding, letting DD sleep in our bed, weaning, not letting her go to stay overnight with them (when she was a tiny breastfed baby who wouldn't countenance a bottle), etc etc etc.

Just stick to your guns, do what is right for you and your baby and make it utterly clear to your DH that he MUST stick up for you. You are in the thick of the hardest time in a woman's life, IMO. The transition from autonomous person to ever-responsible parent is enormously stressful even without anyone else sticking their oar in.

Hope you get it all sorted to your satisfaction. Apart from anything else, your baby needs a mother who is not stressed and not constantly having to defend herself. Best of luck!

This is what I'm doing.
This is the way I'm doing it.
This method has been proven to reduce SIDS/asthma/screaming abdabs.
This is the way I'm doing it.
This is the way I'm doing it.
Your advice is based on outdated/discredited research/methods
And repeat.
And repeat.
Thankfully, I've only had to use this a couple of times, but it works.

(Horton - are you a Dr Seuss Horton?)

LilianGIsh, I know you didn't mean any harm but I have to comment on the idea that we have to empathise with these MILs because of the idea we will be MILS one day. I totally disagree. I think if we put up with it in silence we are more likely to do the same to our DILS in the future. If we never make a stand we might grow older oblivious to how we behave. Its only by putting a stop to our own MIL's bad behaviour that we ensure we won't put our DILS through the same shit. If we feel like butting in in the future, we can remember that we had an argument with our own MIL for doing so and maybe we will think twice before doing it ourselves. If we say nothing we might forget how bad it all actually was and put our DILs through the same hell. Lets break the cycle, man.

jesus-i feel your pain-my mother in law gulp-breathes-types at a million miles an hour
when baby was born commented constantly about my feeding her including saying things like 'ow,put them away-we don't want to see that and she'll be hungry again in minutes anyway...' (in my lounge,in my house,feeding my baby) she has also ahem refuses to tell me when she's arriving lives 400 miles away so gives a day but not a time and then arrives five minutes after texting to say she's a hundred miles away so that i'll be out and she can complain about being sat in the car waiting for me when baby was 6 months old still winged on about me feeding her as 'it didn't work at the beginning so why you're still bothering now i don't know' offended people on the next table by saying 'do you think they might be lesbians next to us' really loudly they clearly were and she's just a rude old bitch gave my dd her 1st birthday present from me when i was in the shower (long story but i had an interview on her birthday and asked dh to give breakfast while i was in shower then we'd give presents together before i had to go- got down stairs to triumphant grin and her offering to show me photos of my daughter seeing her bike for first time on digital camera how i didn't ram it up her i don't know there have been a million snidey incidents *leaving my 13 year old up when she was babysitting and we went out at 9pm and she went to bed at 9.15 leaving my 13 year old downstairs WITH THE FUCKING BABY MONITOR- teenager rang to say baby heartbroken crying and granny in bed asleep..we had to come home before our main courses were dished up...
the thing that really pisses me off is that she pisses all over my bathroom seat when going to the loo and only wipes half,which is worse than not knowing you do it and leaving all of it-this makes me stabby...
she's banned from my home until he deals with her as i'll do stream of consciousness and it'll be irrepairable when i've done...god i HATE that woman...good luck!

breathes in with anger and out with love

Your H's primary loyalty is to you as his wife and he does need to talk to his Mum even if he does upset her.

On a wider level this is also about power and control; she is trying to exert this here.

He is also part of the problem as he is not standing up to his own Mother. He has been conditioned however, to accepting her behaviour as "normal" so does not challenge her readily. That's not an excuse for how he has behaved, this is often what happens.

No room for two alpha females; you both need to put on a united front and make a stand now.

(catinthehat, yes I am. Nice to see a fellow devotee!)

HarryB - totally sympathise, your MIL sounds like mine's long-lost evil twin sister.

I'm sorry I've got no practical advice but I LOVE catinthehat's points idea. Will not bore you with full list of all annoying things but calling DS "Grandma's boy" is definitely 20 points at least! Almost looking forward to seeing the old bag again now!

You need to get Dh on your side. Mention small things and see the reaction.
For example, My dh is very good now at watching how careless his mother is when it comes to hot coffee cups.
Last time she was here, dh said "watch your coffee" mil says "It's ok, i didn't manage to scald you when you were little"

Failing that, deep breaths and repeat standard phrases.

Sakura I didn't say I put up with it in silence - I just think going for all out war and turning mil into a monster will only make the problem worse. I think you can and should put your foot down, but just keep it in mind that she's a 70-year-old woman - it would be a miracle if her top child rearing tips coincided with ours (goodness knows what our eventual dils will be doing when we are that age). I also don't think we should underestimate the effect of being widowed - surely an equally life-changing experience to chilbirth to a woman, but with a rather less positive outcome. I happen to believe that trying to understand another person point of view makes it less likely that I will be a mil from hell - however, judging by the intransigent views held by some of the people on this forum (see threads on breast v. bottle, controlled crying, home birth etc) I'm sure there will be a few mumsnetters in line for that title in years to come.

(Horton, look out for FoxinSocks & Thingone. There are others of us as well I believe)

Update. MiL came round today - this time announced, although she did stay for 5 hours!!!! We went for a long walk so wasn't as slit your wrists bad as usual and she didn't offer any advice at all about anything . I know DH hasn't said anything to her yet, so I wonder if even she might have taken my world war 2 comment on board. Nonetheless - and I know this is irrational - she still winds me up for past comments so I am still intending for DH to speak to her. I have also noticed something and have a theory. When the SiL, her other grand children, or anyone else is around, she is always full of advice for me and kind of cocky. Sounds strange but it's almost like she's trying to prove that she is the matriarch of her family and just because I'm a mum now, I shouldn't step on her toes or get above my station. That sounds odd doesn't it and probably not making much sense . DH said that we will go out on Saturday which is when she always pops round unannounced, so baby steps perhaps.

That sounds a bit more positive HarryB. I know what you mean about still being wound up by past comments - I can remember all my mil's classics. Mine also would love to be the matriarch of the family - unfortunately (or fortunately depending how you look at it) she has no allies having only had dss and her other dil will scarcely give her the time of day!

Matriarch theory and mil being full of it in front of the rest of the family not strange at all. Sounds so familiar. Looks like you might be getting the message across though HarryB - good luck.

Lilian, yes I understand your points. Its just that personally I got myself into a lot of trouble by trying to empathise with my MIL, worrying about her, caring about what was important for her, about what she wanted, seeing life from her point of view, etc.
If I could do something to stop another new mum bothering to do any of that, I will try my best to point out that in some cases, its truly not worth it. As a new mother you absolutely must put yourself first at this very vulnerable time or problems such as PND are likely to arise.