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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Witness protection in court

212 replies

sleepingwiththeenemy · 25/02/2009 08:49

Hi, as some of you will know, I am due to give evidence at the trial of my ex husband in May. For those who don't, as it stands he is being tried for 11 counts of rape, sexual assault and worse...he may also stand trial for child abuse too if the police can persuade the CPS.
The only thying which has kept me sane throughout this is the fact that I will be able to give evidence from behind a screen, therefore will not have to see him at all. But I've been told now that he is asking for my right to protection to be removed and for me to have to testify face to face. There is a hearing in March to determine whether he can force me to do this or not...it is basicaly up to the judge. But I know I cannot do it if I have to see or be seen by him. I spent 6 years with him, filled with abuse, during which time he abused me in every way possible, and even worse abused my children. It is only the fact that I haven't seen him or heard from him in 18 months that my self confidence has returned but I know that if I have to do this I will become a wreck and be unable to give evidence in a calm way. I feel sick now just thinking about it. For the first time since this all began I am doubting my wisdom in agreeing to testify against him. My normal composure is now shot to f**k and I am never far from tears...I've been proud of the way I've managed to deal with it all - by rights I should be weaving baskets in a padded cell by now - but this is a massive blow.

OP posts:
Original poster
sleepingwiththeenemy · 16/10/2009 19:04

I may well lodge a campaign to get the injustice of this noticed by the public. For God's sake...with all the stuff going on in the world, in this country even, with children and paedophiles you would think the justice system would move heaven and earth to protect children.
Tribpot...I absolutely agree with you. I could be lying, but I'm not. But in the first instance it was for the disgusting things he did to DD that the police were brought in, and although he was on trial for the abuse I suffered at his hands, it was for my childrens' safety that I hung in there for 2 years and fought so long to bring him to justice.
Off the record a member of the investigating team also suggested I go to the press...he is disgusted by my treatment and can't see any justification in not allowing me to testify.
I have fought this long to protect her, and no way is he going to be allowed anywhere near her.

OP posts:
dizietsma · 16/10/2009 19:30

This is total BULLSHIT!

Jesus, after all you have been through! With the running away, hanging on, postponements of court dates, and then the motherfucker walks off scot free!

If you have it left in you, and after all this shit I understand you're probably at your wits end, but I would also suggest calling the papers. It's your last chance to try and protect your daughter, make a LOT of noise about this.

mamas12 · 16/10/2009 20:31

so sorry to here this 'result' sleeping.
I have been reading your thread with wide eyed, open mouthed shock tbh with you.
Perhaps now is the time for the media to get involved and maybe think about putting it out in drama form as that is such a powerful medium. I know you don't want this your actual real life day to day awfulness to be 'dramatised' but if you take control of it you might feel empowered by it.
Sorry I'm not making sense but please don't lie down now sleeping we are all with you.

Original poster
sleepingwiththeenemy · 16/10/2009 21:51

I have just contacted women against rape, as they can fight for justice and compensation on behalf of rape survivors. I'll let you know what is said.

OP posts:
tribpot · 17/10/2009 11:33

SWTE I hope you didn't misunderstand my post, I wasn't implying that I thought that you were lying, just that the defence could claim you were, whereas surely no-one would imagine your dd could be. But re-reading your post it seems his trial was related 'only' to his crimes against you? What happened to prosecuting him for the abuse to your dd?

Anniegetyourgun · 17/10/2009 13:10

I remember reading your threads, what, two years ago? when you first found out what he had been up to. I remember clearly the shock and horror as each new revelation emerged, and how very brave you were and are. Still with you and mostly lurking, wanted to say something supportive and just hope I don't make it feel worse...

Look on the bright side (though not a lot of comfort just now): he hasn't been prosecuted YET - he still could be. Especially if he does anything like it again (and the police will be watching him like a whole flock of hawks in case he does). If he'd been tried and acquitted he couldn't be tried for the same crime again. As it is, it's still hanging over him and one day the monster will get his just desserts. He will. You'll see. Hang on and keep looking for all the support you can get. Organisations like Women Against Rape should be a tremendous help because many of them will have been there too, and survived, just as you will.

By the by, I probably shouldn't tell you this, but I used to work for a public body which had an enforcement role. The smaller cases were prosecuted by our own lawyers whilst the big ones went to the CPS. They used to say "oh no, looks like it's going to be over the threshold - is there any way we can justify keeping it in-house, because if CPS get hold of it it'll be three years' work down the pan". Doesn't sound like much has changed.

Original poster
sleepingwiththeenemy · 17/10/2009 16:42

Tribpot...no, not for a minute did I take offence or misunderstand...I was agreeing with you that it could be argued that I could have lied for my own ends, whereas an innocent child could not. Don't worry. The CPS (God love 'em ) decided that it would be too hard to prove the allegations regarding my DD given her age, even though the investigating officer who first dealt with it is still convinced that she was telling the absolute truth, and he said if they had put him on the stand he would have nailed it within 5 minutes. So they concentrated on the rapes.

OP posts:
Original poster
sleepingwiththeenemy · 17/10/2009 16:48

Annie, yes, it's been almost 2 years. I found out what he'd done to DD2 on xmas eve 2007. It feels surreal that after doing this for all that time he's walked. But thankyou, your slant on it has made me think a bit differently and to see some positive from this. I ranted at the police when they told me it'd been dropped, and said he'd got away scot free, and he said no...he hasn't got away with it, he's been arrested, charged, brought to trial, he's been named in the papers and people around him will know all about him. It is also a slight comfort to know that if he does apply for contact he can't say he was found not guilty.

OP posts:
MadameDefarge · 17/10/2009 17:07

WPIC, , why are social services not involved. why do you not have an injunction out against him coming anywhere near you or your children? These are fundamental things to have in place to protect you and your children.

Stop relying on the system to step up and start working it for your benefit.

I know its shit, and you have been betrayed by the legal system, but don't roll over now.

Don't be the victim, be the victor.

The head teacher is talking bullshit if he says he would have to hand your dcs or dd over to him if he came to pick them up, that is so not the truth. You should already have full care and control already, if not, why not?

You should have put all this in place already.

Sorry to sound harsh, but I would not be waiting for a court case to protect my child.

MadameDefarge · 17/10/2009 17:10

Forgive me if I don't understand the complexities, but surely these are things you can do, even if you can't get him banged up?

citronella · 17/10/2009 17:50

sleepingwiththeenemy, this is the first time I have read your story properly but I remember you from a few of my earlier threads if I am right. I am so so shocked that someone could get away with such terrible things. My exH was prosecuted for assault (not sexual)against me, tried and convicted. Although it was important and hard for me, it was no way near like the hell you have endured and not got closure!

If you can find an ounce more strength in you continue to explore other angles. You know you are right and he knows you are right.
Have you had any support from SS (to keep him away). Annie is right. The plus here is that he can still be prosecuted again as he has not been tried and found not guilty.
What have women against rape said?
Strength in numbers and you continue to have support here.

citronella · 17/10/2009 17:50

sleepingwiththeenemy, this is the first time I have read your story properly but I remember you from a few of my earlier threads if I am right. I am so so shocked that someone could get away with such terrible things. My exH was prosecuted for assault (not sexual)against me, tried and convicted. Although it was important and hard for me, it was no way near like the hell you have endured and not got closure!

If you can find an ounce more strength in you continue to explore other angles. You know you are right and he knows you are right.
Have you had any support from SS (to keep him away). Annie is right. The plus here is that he can still be prosecuted again as he has not been tried and found not guilty.
What have women against rape said?
Strength in numbers and you continue to have support here.

Original poster
sleepingwiththeenemy · 17/10/2009 23:18

Madame....I haven't waited for a court case to protect her. I left my home, my business, my friends, all my possessions to run away with her and my other DCs to get away from him. I moved 250 miles away, and we were effectively homeless for a few months until the council housed us.
I tried to extend the previous injunction but was told that as his behaviour hadn't worsened they wouldn't extend it, so in effect he has to do something worse than sexually abuse my daughter and rape me before I can get an injunction!
Social Services have not been any help at all. I have had one visit from them, right at the start of this, 2 years ago. I have called the social worker a couple of times and been met with a 'so what do you want me to do?' attitude as nothing specific had happened since our one and only meeting, whereas all I really wanted was someone to talk to and give me advice.
I can't take out a private prosecution because it would cost a fortune, and I have no assets whatsoever to cover it. If I had a house I'd re mortgage to pay it but I don't.
I have changed mine and DD's name, I am on the electoral register anonymously. What more can I do?

OP posts:
Original poster
sleepingwiththeenemy · 17/10/2009 23:20

Incidentally, I did apply for a residency order prohibiting him from taking her, but the solicitor dropped that when he withdrew his contact application because of the charges against him.

OP posts:
MadameDefarge · 17/10/2009 23:34

OK. so you need to restart the residency order application.

I'm just trying to see what practical things you can do, and we can support you in doing, and obviously I don't know you so I'm asking what seem like daft questions, but you clearly (and reasonably) are banjaxxed by this.

Have you tried talking to womans aid or rape crisis? Perhaps you have, but they might be another route to support for you.

If you daughter is on the "at risk" register, which she should be, its a child protection issue, and so the head should be in contact with SS and the police to make sure that she is not allowed to be taken by your ex.

thinking of you.

NicknameTaken · 19/10/2009 16:01

So sorry about this, sleeping. Hoping that Women Against Rape can help. I agree with MadameDefarge that you should be able to apply again for a residency order ensuring that he can't take your DD.

At the same time, why not ask your solicitor to send a letter to the headmaster requesting him not to release your DD to him? It doesn't in itself have legal weight (until the court order is made) but it might just intimidate the headmaster into complying. He won't be able to say that he doesn't know the situation.

Notquitegrownup · 22/11/2009 21:20

Sleeping, I have just caught up with your dreadful news. I can't believe that you have been treated like this. Just wanted to add another voice of support for you and to ask if you had heard from Women's Aid yet?

Very best wishes to you and your dcs

LoveBeingAMummyKissingSanta · 02/12/2009 08:13

Sleeping was wondering how things had gone and have just caught up. I don't know what to say, I can't believe it.

HOw are you now? I know xmas is a diffcult time, hope you have something nice planned.

HappyWithLife · 30/09/2010 13:26

Hello all...

It's me, sleepingwiththeenemy, back with a new name, new life, new home and new outlook :)

Thanks so much for your messages of support, and for keeping me - us - in your thoughts.

Well, as you know the trial was dropped and he walked away scot free. That was a year ago this month. He then tried for contact through my solicitor who obviously refused on my behalf (this was just before xmas last year)and I heard nothing else. In march I took the decision to move the children and myself to a new place, far away from where we were. It was for many reasons; mainly because I could quite easily be traced if I'd stayed...the solicitor could contact me there, and he knew we were in the North West so could find us if he'd been determined. Also the estate where we lived was becoming rougher, my son kept getting beaten up, my daughter was in with a bad crowd, neighbours were awful, so we walked away from our whole lives there (with the children's blessing.)

Anyhoo...fast forward to now and we are in such a better place, geographically and emotionally. The children have settled in so well, and are happy at school. DD1 has really applied herself and has done well in her GCSEs so far (one of which her teachers said she wouldn't pass as she'd missed so much of the work. It was sociology and she'd never done it before, so she worked like crazy and got 2 Bs).She will go on to college when she leaves, and has really turned her life around.
DS is so happy, he has made some great friends, really nice lads with nice families. He's out all the time, has loads of interests, whereas before he was so introverted that he never ever went out. DD2 is excelling at school,enjoys it and is being invited to birthday parties almost every week.
As for me...well I had a disastrous brush with romance Hmm, once again I seemed to be drawn to non functioning, emotionally defunct men, but I am now happily single, making new friends, and concentrating on building a career as a writer. I am not looking for a relationship, if one happens to come along then so be it, but I am perfectly happy just the way I am.
After the awful, traumatic, heart breaking dark few years we've had, the sun has finally come out and life is really really good. Grin

warthog · 30/09/2010 13:30

how wonderful!!

so happy for you. you really are an inspiration.

Birdistheword · 30/09/2010 13:31

So glad to see this post from you, i have followed this thread from the beginning but never posted. So happy for you Grin

HappyWithLife · 30/09/2010 13:31

Thankyou Warthog :)

It's nice to be happy again. x

HappyWithLife · 30/09/2010 13:40

Birdistheword...It was a long story to follow, so thankyou for sticking with it! Grin

FiaGrace · 30/09/2010 13:44

You don't know me at all but I followed your threads. I'm so pleased you're now in a better place and your dc are settled.

BitOfFun · 30/09/2010 13:48

Delighted to hear it. I followed your threads from the beginning, and they opened my eyes to how amazing a resource MN could be. I really do wish you so much luck for the future- nobody deserves it more.