Why do women bleat about their men?

[ManLikeFire]

Reading through these discussion pages is a rather saddening experience. Page after page of whines, complaints and gripes, all from women attributing their current non-problems to the characteristics or habits of their other half, without a great deal of self-reflection as to why their particular Oprah-esque drama might actually be a consequence of their own choices.

If your other half is lazy, surely you knew that when you picked him? Back in the jurassic era before you produced your offspring, his laidback attitude was probably something that attracted you too him.

If he is terrible with money, it doesn't take a forensic accountant to work that out after a few dates does it? Did you pick him for his miserly tendencies or because he was fun and didn't care too much about material things?

If he has an eye for other women, you can't help but have noticed that early on. It was probably something you liked then, feeling that you'd beat the competition.

You can not have your cake and eat it (although I suspect a number of you do!): you must accept responsibility for the decisions made a long time ago. Of course, if he turns out to be gay, or becomes immensely fat, then I think you have a legitimate complaint, as that was not what it said on the tin when you took your pick.

The bottom line is that when you whinge about him now, you are really criticising yourself for making that choice long ago on the basis of wishful thinking, that you'd change him or that he change when life moved on: "Oh, I'm sure he'll change when we're together or when we have kids." Men do not bank on change - they get together with a woman because they like them at the time (or they can't do any better). They don't then spend a lifetime trying to change them (unless they let themselves go).

Perhaps women should try the same.

divorce I think is the only answer titfortwat.
Although really you should have dated for longer - men can't put off farting for very long!

What's that old expression:

"A woman marries a man hoping she can change him. A man marries a woman hoping she will never change."

?

Not that I think it's always true.

There is a certain amount of stirring in the OP, but I do find myself getting exasperated with the amount of whining on "AIBU" - or as I call it "IYHTAIYBU, YPA" ("If You Have To Ask If You're Being Unreasonable, You Probably Are")...

As one of those who assumed you were a man, I'd like to point out that it's not because you "have an opinion and put it strongly", but because of the way you worded your OP - not all women "bleat about their men" and I would have assumed a women commenting on the fact that some of them do would have worded it in a way that made clear that they did not mean all women.

There are many women on mumsnet who have opinions and put them strongly - I'd be assuming at least 1/3 of MNetters were men if I used that as the criterion.

Personally I think it it a bit misogynist (the OP). Women so often take the blame for men's bad behaviour, it doesn't even draw comment when it's as blatant as this.

It isn't a woman's fault if her DP does 'x' bad thing, just because she chose him or even if she might have had an inkling he might be like this before. It is his fault. He is an adult, and actually responsible for his own behaviour.

I see this all over the media and other forums too - 'well, she's the idiot for putting up with it', as if somehow bad behaviour from men is just a given, and it's up to women how they handle it - with judgement poured on them if they get it wrong.

Anyway, it's hardly rocket science. You meet somebody, you fancy them, you have a great time, hormones all over the place - how in the name of arse are you meant to know what they will be like when faced with the daily grind? And by the time the hormones subside you're already deeply involved and it isn't nearly as simple as to just walk away from any partner who turns out to be less than perfect.

And the classic model of an abusive partner is often one who seems kind and caring at the start, inly becoming controlling etc once the other person is 'under their spell' so to speak.

PMSL at the idea that only men are articulate.

'It isn't a woman's fault if her DP does 'x' bad thing, just because she chose him or even if she might have had an inkling he might be like this before. It is his fault. He is an adult, and actually responsible for his own behaviour. ' - well yes, of course he is responsible for his own behaviour. But it's a woman's choice to get into the relationship too.

I think it does women a real disservice to suggest that they somehow have less of a choice than men. If someone chooses a partner with bad traits, then they need to take responsibility, not for the traits, but for their decision to enter into the relationship.

Oh dear!! Big apologies all - fat fingers here at MNHQ has just deleted a message by Littlelapin completely by error. For the record SHE HAS DONE NOTHING WRONG!!!! Sorry again - we can't get the post back but we'll email her now and ask her to repost.

Many of the women on here will have less choice then men - they are mothers, and can't just up and walk out of a situation and go and live in a bedsit down the road.

If they have taken career breaks then they may be financially dependent too, or may have little support locally.

And I reiterate my point that most people do not display their worst traits until a relationship is well established anyway.

I think the op has a point though, and agree with find and expat's points. We do get certain posts on MN from women complaining, asking for advice, wanting to know how to change the situation, and then they get loads of great advice but choose not to follow any of it, the mind baffles.

It's not true for all threads started in relationaships though, just some of them.

Some women just assume the role of poor victim without examining how their own behaviour and interactions with their partners could be part of the problem.

bollox do most women have less choice than men. Yes, it may be harder, but we all still ultimately have just as many choices. More like, women aren't prepared to put in the hardship and difficulty that changing might entail.

Well said dittany!!!!!

'Many of the women on here will have less choice then men - they are mothers, and can't just up and walk out of a situation and go and live in a bedsit down the road.'

• and you could write the same post, substituting 'fathers' for 'mothers'.

I think a lot of this comes down to whether you see yourselves as equal partners and parents. There is no law that says a mother has to be the one to give up a career, or go part time. Surely that's exactly the kind of thing that a couple need to discuss, and make joint decisions about? The major, life changing stuff, where you live, work, what childcare you use - if couples can't discuss and come to agreement about these things then god help them when it comes to the minor details!

'And I reiterate my point that most people do not display their worst traits until a relationship is well established anyway.'

• this may, or may not, be true - not sure. But it cuts both ways - if it's true, then surely it's true of women as much as men, so in a sense we're either all taking a massive gamble with relationships or we're not.

Use of the word "bleat" in title impedes calm and rational discussion.

Good post overmydeadbody. Women who claim they don't have a choice are often making excuses. We are living in the 21st century in the western world FGS, not the middle ages or in the middle east!

I think Psycho was right to blame that sadsack Times article.

Society, the media, employers, friends and family members will generally not tend to think that 'father' and 'mother' are equal and interchangeable words.

We don't live in anything like that kind of world.

Unfortunately 'tis in the nature of some women to think that they can change that personality defect they see in their men. That's how come abusers and bullies always end up with someone. Because some women are easily intimidated, because they live in hope that they can change that person, because women always do tend to see the good in someone rather than the bad.

Not to mention that if a man doesn't like his woman whinging, then he too should spot the signs early on. He is just as guilty of marrying someone, warts and all, and then complaining when that person doesn't change into the one they want.

It's not a gender characteristic, it's a HUMAN characteristic.

Women talk, we communicate, we like to share problems and get things off our chests. As a generalisation, men tend to bottle things up, they don't like telling anyone if they have a problem, they don't like facing up to their problems.

And if you were a regular on Mumsnet you would know that plenty of Mumsnetters have very happy relationships and are more than happy to give their partners due credit. MNetter's partners have supported us collectively through ante and post-natal depression, bereavements, miscarriages, teenager crisis, unexpected pregnancies and so on. They are given full credit and some men have even joined Mumsnet and 'live' here very happily. We call upon them from time to time to give advice and they are fully participating Mumsnet members.

I think the OP is simply trying to stir up trouble for the sake of it.

Oh and yes, you numbskull, you will be thought of as a man if you have MAN in your Mumsnet name - durr!

I find it quite surprising that anyone has the sort of wonderfully ordered, organised lives and are so clear-sighted, that they can see exactly how a person is going to develop, how they are both going to develop over the years to come, how they are both going to deal with the problems that arise. And that when things go wrong they can take advice instantly, and if it doesn't fix the problem, walk away. IME life simply is not like that. I wish it was so simple. I can't even do that with my career, let alone my DH.

And more often than not, women on MN love and respect their partners in many ways, but that doesn't stop them finding other things about them deeply frustrating at times.

It's normal human nature isn't it?

Why do some women 'bleat'...

Sorry you lost me at the word 'bleat.

Cock.