Am I being paranoid?

[nanog]

Last Fri at abt 5pm DH was about to get into the shower. He started to have a shave and I told him I was going out to meet a friend for a quick drink. I'd be back in an hour. DS1 and DS2 were both at home with him.

On my way to meet my friend, I recieve a txt from her to say she can no longer meet, so I turn the car round and go home. I was back home in 5min. As I enter the house, I see the kids both playing. I opened the bathroom door to pop my head round and say hello to DH, but DH wasn't there.

I searched every room and he was nowhere to be seen. The back door to the garden was wide open and so was the garage door. I entered the garage and he was sat naked, half shaven with a phone i've never seen before.I asked him what on earth he was doing sitting stark naked in the garage, in a jokey way. He said nothing and I'm just so confused by then that I didn't know what else to say to him. I also noticed a phone charger plugged into a socket in the garage.

I started to piece together things that have happened, like how he spends a lot of time in the garage when he returns from work each day. I always assumed he was putting his tools away, but now i'm thinking otherwise.

I'm questioning why he would need another (secret) mobile phone. i can only think the worst right?

It was bugging me all weekend so last night I asked him about the phone. He told me its a very old phone he used to own and someone at work told him he could enter a code and then make free calls from it. I questioned further whether it actually worked and he said he tried, but got cut off. I said how gr8 it would be to have a phone wher we wouldn't have to pay for calls, but he said that he didn't think it was possible. more like he didn't want me to see the phone right?

Since I saw the phone in the garage on the fri, he has hid it. I can't find it anywhere. He doesn't leave it around like his other mobile phone. Why would he hide this from me?

I've never felt this way before. We've been married for 10 years. Should I be suspiscious? Is he upto something and how do I find out?

Nanog - have just found this thread and have spent the best part of an hour reading it.

I am so sorry that your DH has been acting like this.

However I want to remind you of something you wrote many many pages ago - that you could forgive anything appart from him shagging someone. So you do have it in yourself to move on from here with your husband.

You and your husband have very different desires sexually from the sound of it, and he seems to have been trying to satisfy himself, and yes he should have been open with you from the start. I would imagine that there is an element of embarrasment on his side that he is resorting to the things that he didn't want to admit to too.

It sounds like you both need to sit down and have a really open conversation, and find a path through this.

hope you can sort this out

Many thanks for all your responses.

Kally, I have no idea whether or not he has met with any of these OW. He says he hasn't the time nor money, but I can't help feeling paranoid about it. He thinks I've made up my mind about it all and won't allow him the chance to convince why he's telling the truth about it. Deep down, I don't think he has met with them, but I can't help thinking that in his view, if the sex with me was really a big issue for him, then there was nothing stopping him from having sex with them. Kally, do you have DC? How did the end of your relationship affect them?

You see, DH has now drawn the conclusion that I don't want nothing to do with him, which isn't true. I want to discuss this, but I can't stand the lies and his way of dealing with this is staying mute all the time. He's been texting me from work today and has already confirmed he'll sleep in the spare room and eat down his mother's every night and come back home only to sleep. Now, these texts, really did piss me off, cz I thought, well, at least he's got his mummy to run back to. who have I got? I can't even confide to anyone about this and I definitely don't want to go public.

Kally, I think you've made a really good point about feeling turned on. At this precise moment, I'm totally turned off him by him and I can't forsee this changing.

What he wants me to do is make an instant decision whether or not I can forgive him. I told him I can't do that and he has to give me time, PLUS answers. Does anyone know, exactly, how sex lines work? I just want to throw in some examples, and ask him if that's what happened. He just won't tell me, which then makes me suspiscious about whether he met with these OW or not.

Reality Gap - ur right, I think I could find myself accepting his addiction to sex lines (if that is the case), but like you Kally, I think there comes a point, where enough is enough. From a totally selfish point of view, I just don't think I have the strength to do that right now, besides I have the DC to think about and the rest of the family. I may suggest counselling, but not sure how he'll respond to this. It's worth a go!

Aggghh!! He has now taken my phone and is blatanly lying that he doesn't have it. I've had to phone Orange to get the calls restricted.

Will post more later. Is there anyway of tracing where a phone is located?

Nanog, so sorry you are still having such a hard time. Remember to email me when you do come to brighton.

Again I don't have any advise but just want you to know I am thinking of you and your DCs

Nanog, my two older children (from before the affair he had) grew up in their primary years amidst the fights and loathing and resentment (effects of the affair). They were troublesome kids, especially my son, kids home in on weak points.
My third child (born 5 years after the affair)(a mistake a lot of couples make in trying to stick things back together again) was the worse for wear really, she also came into a household of everyone in disharmony and then went thru the divorce as well. I left the country of my marriage years (husband on distant shores) and came back home to the UK 2 years ago with my little one. I have PEACE and TRANQUILITY now. She has come along really well and the fresh start for her has been a major positive transition. We are doing fine. Older kids are independant now and discuss openly about their parents relationship (with good humour). But it did DO damage. But trying to make a happy home out of two parents who are not happy is an impossible task. I mean impossible. Kids pick up on instability however good actors you may think you can be. Kids need to grow up in harmony with their parents. When there is deep seated problems, they sense it. That is why you have to go for help together, I didn't and it festered. You really must insist on it and you could pull thru this.

Nanog, I am sorry you are having such a bad time and I hope that the following information will be helpful to you. I work for a sex chatline and do not ever meet the callers or indeed offer to meet them for sex.
The advertising for sex chatlines/text sex quite often implies that it is possible to meet up for sex, but this is not true: adverts which are offering actual sex are worded differently (usually using words like 'escort'); adverts which say things like 'Horny girls want sex now, call this number' are offering phone-sex.
Callers will phone a central number and calls are then routed to a worker who is (usually) at home but her number is hidden. There are also sex phone lines which have pre-recorded messages: these numbers usually begin 0909.

It is possible that your DH is ringing sex lines as a way of managing his high libido without putting you under pressure to give him more sex: you may be able to sort this out with him if he is a good husband in other ways.

Hi Nanog

This is the first time I've posted on MN, but I've been following your thread and have become so angry for you that I had to post!!
I normally try to see things from both sides and stay level-headed, but your husband sounds like such an arsehole (sorry!) and I hate to see this humiliating farce continue...
Your husband really behaves like a spoiled child (did his mother spoil him?), a child that is used to not having to take any responsibility for his actions - the blame must always lie with someone else.

First, you have to understand that you have done NOTHING wrong! You seem so reasonable and dedicated to your family and he has NO respect for you or your family unit. What do you mean he took your phone!! WTF!? As a revenge for the phone you took? Did he forget you took it because he was calling sex lines/other women??
Also, although these matters are very individual, most men I know would consider themselves very lucky to get sex 1-2 a week, after 10 years and with 2 young children! I am in those exact circumstances (also work full time) and we have sex maybe 2 a month - however, because my husband does equal amount of work in the home and with the children, he is too tired to really want more! I think often that those discrepancies between men and women regarding sex boil down to the women being much more tired and also more emotionally drained after giving themselves to the kids. We are very happy with each other and wouldn't dream of making this into an issue. On that note, you also have to realize that it's really about him being somehow obsessed (don't know if I can say addicted) about sex/the porn world and what he wants is to come to you and have sex with all those fantasies in his head! This would be such a major turn-off for me, and if you decide that this is somehow your fault for not giving him more, this is what you have to face...

I'm not going to tell you to leave him either, but I really can't see how you can go on, without him:

1. Admitting everything, showing genuine remorse and taking full responsibility
2. Begging your forgiveness and work really hard on making you happy
3. go to counselling with you, which will hopefully open his eyes, and perhaps on his own to deal with his unrealistic sex/ life expectations

You know what? I could see myself recover after an affair or something similar you are going through, but I couldn't see myself living one day under the same roof as a man that behaves like your husband, re the lies, the disrespect, the running home to mum's....he really sounds like a spineless worm! And don't think for one minute that you're doing what's best for the kids by staying with him under these circumstances. I think you have to consider that maybe you're just being a coward and hiding behind the kids. Sorry if that sounds hard - but if he won't take responsibility, there's no fixing this...
Do you think it will constitute a happy secure childhood to live in a house where the father goes home to his mum's for dinner every night and sleeps on the couch? What's up with that anyway? If I were to have an arrangement like that, the only thing I would want all of us to do together is have family dinner....

I think you should think about your dignity, pride and your self worth and give him a serious ultimatum. If he fails to respond, you've done everything you can.

I really wish you the best

MightyMarg - I think your point nr. 2 about begging for forgiveness is odd.
I reckon this guy has been totally out of order but dont forget he is not an open person anyway and if he feels his sex drive was too high and got a few kicks out of phoning sex chat lines (which is all he did as far as we know to this point) he may have been trying to deal with his physical urges without bothering or making his wife feel pressured. I am not trying to justify his actions, but this is a little family experiencing a trauma, which if handled properly from the begining, could be managed.
Making someone beg is odd. Nanog should know if her husband is truly sorry and needs forgiveness, begging will make it look like some ritual.
This couple obviously were unaware of the problems seriousness which happens a lot with couples. He probably is too 'closed' to suggest certain things he wanted out of sex, she probably wouldn't even be aware of the fact that a lot of couples do 'unusual' things to keep things alive in the bedroom. Here lies the problem. It's workable and fixable. Nanog is probably a conservative person, and her husband maybe too for all we know. But desire and urges are there and there are lots of ways for men to appease those desires, at the click of a button and a cheap and arousing phonecall. Lets get this into proportion as it is 2009 almost and these are victims here, real people of the ease at which sexual desires can be vented outside the walls of our homes. Right or not, this is a family here. Real people. Sorry to RANT.

I finally get the phone back, but only after a pretentious, 'I'll help you find it' frpm DH. Let me first explain what happened with my phone, before I respond to the recent posts.

I was hoovering the lounge and left the phone beside the couch. DH returned from work and sat right next to my mobile, reading the newspaper. We were not really on speaking terms at this point, merely, texting each other whilst he was at work earlier in the day. I move to the kitchen / diner area. I must've been in there for 10 min, when I hear the front door slam. DH drove off in the car. I asked DS1 if Daddy had told him where he was going. DS1 said, he has gone to a shop to return something. Anyway, I thought I'd text him, so I go back to the lounge to collect my mobile where I had left it beside the couch. It's not there! I look around and then ask DS2 to turn down the volume on the TV, so that I can call the mobile from the house phone. There is a ringing tone, but I can't actally hear the mobile. I suspect straightaway that DH has taken it. Which is fine by me, but he could've told me. I take the house phone upstairs, just in case the mobile had been moved, so I dial my mobile again. This time the mobile phone is switched off and I get even more suspiscious, so I phone ORange and ask them to restrict any calls from my mobile. I've also phoned DH to find out where he went and to tell him about the phone. I asked him if he'd seen it. He kept telling me he'd phone me back in 2min and then he seemed very cagey. I just knew he had it, but he denied ever seeing it.

When he returned I asked him to look in his pockets. He then has a go at me for accusing him of something he hasn't done. I just knew he had the phone, because one minute it was there next to him and the next it was gone. Plus, I just KNOW when he's lying. He makes a funny, uncomfortable look on his face. The DC were both doing their own thing and hadn't touched it, because they would've told me, if they had been using it.

So, this morning, I told everyone that no-one was leaving this house, until my mobile is found. After searching for 30min, DS1 found it beside the fridge, where we keep empty carrier bags. The phone was switched off and I could see DH with a smirk on his face, saying how dare I accuse him when it was there all along. I ask DS1 how he knew to look next to the fridge - he said, "Daddy told him to look there." I rest my case!

So, more lies and he can't obviously be open with me. He will just try and get away with this as much as he can. I have made it very clear to him, that if he wants to get this sorted, then he has to agree to marriage counselling. He's told me to forget it and he won't be doing that. So, where do I go from here?

Solidgoldbrass - thanks for that informed view. It's helped me to understand how it works. I think you're right tho, he was using the sex lines to channel his sexual desires. I just can't help feeling that when we have engaged in sex, that he may actually be thinking about the sex callers and his desire to want to do it with them and everything that goes with that.

MightyMarge - Welcome to MN and thank you for posting. I feel equally as angry, because he is not taking this seriously, he is definitely not taking responsbility for his actions and most importantly, it's like he doesn't even want to work things out. It's really worrying me, because is he really prepared to let me go? I don't think he understands the severity of my feelings and subsequent actions. He is not going to grovel for forgiveness and I'm really not expecting that. I want us to deal with this properly, dedicate sufficient 'us' time to talk things thro and if that means marriage counselling, then I'm totally up for that. He doesn't seem too keen on the idea, so I just don't know what I can do to convince him.

Kally - I'm really pleased to hear how you're now at peace with your life. It's so heartening to hear this. I admire you for getting your DC thro wat must've been a very difficult period in your life, but you have managed to turn your life around for the better and I really do admire you for your strength.

To sum up, he's not really opening up to me, in fact, quite the opposite - it's making him clam up even more, becoming quite a closed person. What has become of our marriage, when he feels he can't be open with me?

What did he get out of taking yr phone? A power thing? To see who you had been sharing the problem with? Why would he disappear with your phone? I don't get the motive? If he is afraid of you conferring this problem with a family member and exposing him, perhaps this is where you should make him understand that if he doesn't willingly go for coucelling then you will go to 'so and so' (someone in the family who you think could help)... tell him this. See what he says and then say 'or we could sort this privately and between us only and get out of this mess up and carry on with respect for each other. Don't forget he is probably feeling like the naughty kid in the class and that everyone is against him. He'll get even more and more devious. Take control of the situation, it's the ace in your hand, as he is in the wrong and you are not.

Nanog: I do think your husband is behaving unacceptably in lying to you (and the trick with taking your phone was downright nasty), however, if he (and you) have both been brought up to think of sex as something a bit shameful and dirty then he's going to feel more obsessive, desperate and guilty about it than perhaps is necessary as you say yourself that you think he started ringing chatlines to relieve his frustration without pressuring you. (and this is very different to having actual sexual contact with other people, paid or not). Also, try not to get too hung up on what he's thinking about when he has sex with you as very many people fantasize a little during sex and it is entirely harmless. Have you and your DH ever discussed sexual fantasies or your preferences other than 'normal' (not a very useful term' sex?
I hope if everything else in your rleationship was OK that you can sort this out between you and maybe it will make the marriage better. However, if he is determined to blame you for everything and lie to you even when you have offered to talk reasonably about the matter, then it's more of a problem.

Kally, I don't understand his motive for taking my phone and then switching if off - why would he do this? Kally thanks for the idea to confer this prob with a family member. He will more than likely want to keep it contained, to save the embarrasment. I'm trying to take control of the situation, but he is the one now being stroppy, as if this is somehow my fault.

Solidgoldbrass - I forgot to ask you about how the payment is made. Is it made to the central number called and how much does it usually cost? We used to discuss our sexual fantasies, before we had children and like i said before, I think the underlying issues are to do with, in his view, no sex life! I was really content with our relationship, but it's obvious he wants more. I have to ask him if he wants more from me or these OW - i know what the answer will be - me.

Which is fine, but then why can't he express how he feels? If his way of dealing with this is by being closed, then I fear we just won't get this sorted.

As this whole thing has been going on for a while now, I expect its been a battle of wits. He;s trying to keep ahead of you and this must be a terrible strain on both of you. I bet the whole household is in chaos because of it.
Bottom line is you are both getting nowhere and perhaps you should sit down somewhere, equal terms and get it out.
I think he's just venting his sexual fantasies, not having gone any further than just the calls.
There is nothing wrong with fantasizing and I am sure you are the end goal for that, not these women he chats with. This is not a warning sign he is 'going off of you'. Its a shame he didn't chat with you but often cultural rstrictions that are carried often lead to talking to total strangers about such things. I know you are extremely hurt and angry but try to go an extra mile and talk to him sanely (in this insane situation). You were lovers, friends, close, mum and dad to your children, been thru thick and thin, go the extra mile, calm down, take control and talk to him as the friend you once had. I didn't do this and it may have made things go differently for me (altho I have no regrets today).
A lot will 'slag' me off for being a suck-up on this, but this is a man you decided to spend your life with. Put all the 'shit' aside and sit down and talk to him. POsitive brings about positive and you might make some headway in the right direction instead of playing mind games and stealing phones and creating more distress. It can go on forever like this. Both of you are totally muddled and insecure right now. Deep breath, and talk. Get the kids out and sit down and rectify, clarify, put all the stigmas aside and unwrapp the problem.

Solidgoldbrass you're so wise. I go with you on all you say.

Nanog - I am sorry to say this but I think he is trying to make you look paranoid. his version of that story will not make you look good if he decides to retell it. (He goes out, suddenly you are phoning him demanding to know where you mobile is (how should he know?), then you go on and on about it and finally insist on a big search - no one to leave the house etc - and one of the children finds it where you left it all the time.

So if you are losing your mind about that, then maybe you are also not quite right when you describe all the other things you claim he has done. i.e. people should wonder whether you are having a sort of breakdown?

I know you are not and so do all the others who have watched this story evolve, but if he was to make you look unreliable, then his friends and family might not know what to believe. So it is damage limitation for your H.

Or he IS trying to make you paranoid.

Nanog: AFAIK payment is made from the phone user to the company which owns the lines ie the central number and its call-directing software: the chatline workers get paid by the company. (Oh, and the money is not all that good and many chatline staff are very bored with the callers and are usually doing the ironing or reading the paper while pretending to be getting turned on. DOes it help to think of him phoning women who have no interest in meeting him and are generally not seductive sirens but slobbing around in egg-stained tracksuits picking their toenails...).

Hi nanog, I have sort of skimmed the thread. Im so sorry for what you are going through. If you're anything like me, well I would need concrete evidence before I ended a marriage, for my peace of mind really. I hate to do anything unless im 100% sure, however bleak things appear...with me there's always that element of doubt otherwise.

You can track a person by their phone, do you know this? You have to pay for the service online but I dont think it's a large amount. You do need access to the phone to activate the service though. Am not entirely sure of the details. I only know because I planned to put ds on it when he starts walking home from school (he is 11).

Thanks Solidgoldbrass and Shy Baby. He had phoned a sex shop and he has not yet explained whether he purchased anything or not. I've not seen a sex toy or anything else that I think he may have bought from the sex shop. I don't want to end this marriage, but things got a little nasty last night. I wrote him a letter, because despite trying to discuss this, he he's not responded, so I thought he could respond to the letter instead.

I basically told him how i felt - shocked by his behaviour and how disrespectful he's been by laughing about this serious matter and not showing any remorse whatsoever. He's been behaving like it's no big deal and wants things to go back to normal.

DH responded to this letter, by ripping it up and throwing it in my face, telling me to stick it where the sun don't shine!! (SHOCK!!)

I don't really want to re-live the nightmare from last night, so I'm not going into detail about this right now. I'm just getting over the shock of his immature behaviour and then this morning, he gets up gives me a cuddle, tells me he's sorry and we precede to have breakfast together. I'm silent throughout, scared to say anything in case he explodes again. (no, he didn't physically lash out, but he was angry - it's as if I'm the one who has done something wrong). He wants things to go back to normal. He kisses me goodbye before he goes to work. It's as if, last night didn't even happen to him.

It pains me to think this, but I don't think I want to be with him anymore. He is being so unreasonable, behaving like a spoilt child and feels he doesn't have to explain anything to me. From his perspective, he's probably thinking that I'll never leave him, so he can carry on, as he likes.

I have a lot to think about...

Hi again Nanog

I'm really chocked - seriously, he is mad!! If he has so little grasp on reality that he thinks he can carry on as always and that this is no big deal, then I don't know how you could go on with him. I'm all for working things through, even difficult things like affairs etc, but only if both parties are willing - I'm NOT for putting up and shutting up, it will eat away at you and kill your happiness....if you accept this, you are basically giving him a green light to what the f he wants for the rest of your married life.

I think his behavior last night coupled with this morning's is worrying. He is trying to bully you into giving up on this. The whole things is a bit creepy really. Is he the man you thought he was?

BTW, in my previous post (which was anger-fuelled, haha) I didn't mean that he has to literally BEG your forgiveness (although that would be the smart thing to do), nor were my points meant as some sort of 3-step program (!) - BUT, I DO think that if forgiveness and return to normality is the goal, the one in the wrong has to repent, take responsibility for his actions and ask forgiveness - that's an absolute minimum!! You can THEN start working on re-building trust etc, but not before this is in place.

Like you hint at yourself, there might still be many unanswered questions out there...god knows what he is or has been up to....

I think you should tell him to go where the sun don't shine!!

Nanog the actual lying and deviousness, the way he responds is one thing. But this shows he's not very good at handling things when things get stormy and out of hand.
He probably doesn't think what he did with the call to the sex shop and the flirty calls to sex chat lines, is really that bad a deed. To you it is.
I remember once my EH took me to a store like that and asked me to choose a vibrator. I was so shocked and upset. I didnt know what context to put it in. He liked watching smutty videos, which turned me off and I felt embaressed. We lacked communication on every aspect of sex. If I tried new things I felt as if I was being taken out of a comfort zone (that I thought was doing just fine)... It made me angrier as I felt I was being cajolled into something I didn't feel was necessary, so instead of our sex life getting better it got worse. The more he tried to turn me on the less it worked. But he kept at it because he felt our sexlife needed spicing up.
We didn't communicate well over such things and I was shy and felt it was unfair, but now I am looking back over those years (I am now 51 and far more experienced)I feel I was very inhibited and restricted and also he didn't turn me on. His sexual fantisies did nothing for me other that drive me and him apart.
A good sex life depends on that fire burning and it being 'stoked' by good communication and accomodating (to a fair point) each others desires. But you can only do this if you shed inhibitions and share in a sacred way.
He must know your character and the way you are. His handling of this whole erruption has been very non-professional and probably he is 'venturing' and trying to explore, but basically I think your way of looking at it, compared to his, are two different things.
If you dare, go for sexual councelling. If that sexual glow is still there for you (this big kafuffle aside) and you would like to try, then do it. Openess about sex and fantasies and discussing what you BOTH like and want can save a relationship. Let the dust die down a bit.
If he is trying to act 'normal' admist all this, then get back on a stable setting with him, and without inhibition sit down and discuss. This is too serious for texts and letter communication. Its your husband, not some stranger. Culture and restrictions aside now, sit down and talk softly and without anger and accusing. Find out what it is he is dappling on the edges for. I think that is all he has been doing.

He has responded to my letter by text messages. He said a guy at work told him about the sex chat lines. It started 3 months ago - this is not true. I have evidence that it started back in April. He said he didn't have lengthy conversations with them. It was just, 'hi, how are you'. He said he made calls from work, because he was having a laugh with the guys from work. From what Solidgoldbrass told me, it's more than a conversation. It's about these women turning the men on. He said the video is not connected to this at all. He can't remember ever taking the video, but he knows he hasn't sent it to anyone. He said he hasn't bought anything from a sex shop and I could check the bank statements if I wanted.He said he called the sex shop to buy something to spice up our sex life. So, why didn't he tell me at the time?

He said he's got nothing to hide and is telling the truth. But his version of events, don't quite tally with the phone records. Conversations with these women range from a few seconds to 54 minutes. He said he is not going off me and he won't continue calling the sex chat lines. In fact, he says they are not sex chat lines, but massage parlours and no, he hasn't used them for a massage.

I'm confused. I just want to get this sorted, without him having to resort to bully boy tactics, which I won't put up with. He can behave like a spoilt brat if he doesn't get his way. Don't most men? Or is just my experience? It's obvious he is finding it extremely difficult to speak with me face to face, so I will have to respond by txt, but I feel this is so open to misinterpretation.

Kally, what you've described about communications re. sex life, is exactly how I feel. His sexual desires don't turn me on, in fact I get quite annoyed by it, but that doesn't mean I don't love him. I sometimes give into what he wants to do in bed, just to keep him happy and to avoid him from sulking. I know that isn't right. Do different sexual needs and these frustrations, really spell the end of a marriage? Surely not. I want to work this out, but he has to acknowledge his appaling behaviour and has to contribute torwards working this out. This can't be about me chaging to suit his needs all the time.

Nanog: some callers to chatlines do just have 'ordinary' conversations (though usually these are the lonely older men, widowers etc) though the vast majority of callers want sex chat.
As to 'massage parlours' some men do phone them, not with the intention of actually going there but because they find it more of a turn on to talk to an actual sex worker instead of a chatline worker. Massage parlour staff hate timewasters like this and get them off the phone as fast as possible btw.

YOur DH is not behaving at all well around this, though. I thought initially he maybe had a bit of a madonna/whore thing going on (you are the mother of his DC therefore he can't think about rude raunchy sex with you and he feels guilty about it) but the more it goes on the more it sounds like he's just being selfish and sulky and isn;t prepared to try and sort things out sensibly.