Do I tell DD she's not nice?

[Weeeheee]

DD (20) is due to meet the OW in person soon at XH wedding to her.

DD has chatted online with OW a few times (she lives abroad). DD said the other day that she's looking forward to meeting OW, as she seems nice.

I'm desperate to discuss with DD why she's not nice.

OW persisted in chasing XH and encouraging him to end our marriage and our family life. OW was married herself, so was also cheating on her husband. She has a young child, so also broke up their family.

I do not blame OW for XHs choices. He ended our marriage, not her.

But anyone who pushes a person to end their marriage and leave their family, and move a 10 hour flight away from their own children is not a nice person.

A woman who cheats on her husband is not a nice person.

I want to discuss with DD why she thinks she's nice when she behaved in the way she did.

I know I shouldn't, as I'll sound bitter.

I'm not bitter at all - life is the best its been without XH in it.

But OW is not a nice person, and as a now adult, DD should be mature enough to consider the bigger picture.

I'm probably going to leave it, but would you say anything to DD?

Except in real life it isn't that black and white. Some one who's made poor moral choices isn't automatically all bad. I'm not condoning her choices but it'd ridiculous to suggest that anyone who has an affair is an entirely and forever awful human being that no one sobuld ever like

Your dd probably doesn’t have the capacity yet to truly understand how the awful emotional side to all this, so I’d probably not say anything - she’ll work it out eventually

It depends what sort of conversations you would normally have about character and values. If you have been raising your daughter to think about what's going underneath, to judge people by their actions not their words or appearance, to consider what she thinks makes a 'good' person, then this is an easy conversation to have. You can say 'OW seems pleasant, but her actions suggest that she doesn't share our values'.

If you haven't had these sorts of chats to date, you might want to initiate that before launching in on the OW.

I would keep out of it. Your daughter is an adult now and can make her own mind up

So DD is well aware of the situation. Although she's technically an adult, she's still really young and it's really difficult for her emotionally. It's an impossible situation to navigate. Nobody wants to realise their parent is an asshole. I was 34 when I was the DD in this position and it was awful (still is almost three years later). As her mum, the best thing you can do for her is try to protect her from your hurt.

I'm not sure that's true though. I know lots of people who have ended up as OW in all kinds of circumstances, and in the main they are very nice people, with one flaw which is to believe some not-nice man when he said the marriage was over anyway, we aren't having sex or whatever.

One of my best friends in the world, who has been a complete trooper supporting me through death, bereavement, teenage troubles, started out as an OW. It's more like a character flaw where she gives people the benefit of the doubt.

I also have known the OW in my parent's relationship for 30 years now. She's lovely, what she did was not nice (and my parent is definitely not nice in that regard) but she's a nice person, with good friends, worked in a caring profession, has lots of people who like her. I wouldn't trust her or depend on her, but that's not the nature of what's required here.

I know it's a mumsnet trope that there are good and bad people in the world and a clear dividing line, but that's not my experience. Some are bad, that's mainly the cheating men, I've found.

Your DD is an adult. I think it's fine to tell her that while you respect her right to make up her own mind about other people and her relationships with them, you need a boundary here whereby she doesn't bring these comments/ thoughts about the OW to you because it's too hurtful. Your DD really should understand this herself at 20, I'm surprised she doesn't tbh..

Agreed. He could have kept his dick in his pants.
He chose not to

No I would say nothing. Also nothing is ever black and white when it comes to cheating and breaking up. I wouldn’t involve your DD in all that. It was your DH who cheated on you. Your post seems to suggest the OW was the one who convinced him to leave but he is an adult who has agency. He made that choice. And her previous marriage doesn’t have anything to do with you. I do know people who I see as nice people but they have cheated on their spouse. Don’t make your DD hate her stepmum.

Given she's a (young) adult woman who knows the general situation, there's not really any point in detailing how awful OW is. But if DD said anything positive about OW again, I might mildly say "DD, do you really think I want to hear about how nice the woman who had an affair with my husband is?"

I wouldn't bring it up of my own accord though.

Of course she doesn’t have to shrug it off, but her husband is the one who cheated and he cheated on her not their DD. OP has every right to be angry and hurt but this is not behaviour that will serve her well.

Don't say that either. Be truthful if asked why you split up (your dad had an affair with X and I decided I couldn't live with that), but don't derogate someone's parent, they are half their DNA and it's like derogating them. She's 20 and will know.

What could possibly go wrong here…🙄

damned right.

@Weeeheee she’s done seducing your husband, now she’s seducing your Dd.

its all about her self esteem. She’s trying to erase the stain of what she’s done

I think this is a good idea, be honest about your own feelings without trying to change theirs.

It's also the case that it may change over time, my mum now thanks all the gods my dad cheated on her and left her, leaving her free to meet a fantastic guy. She also likes my dad's second wife, mainly because she's pleasant enough and took him off her hands.

It sounds like DD has enough facts about the affair to make up her mind about that, and it sounds like she already has the measure of her dad. It would be better really if she got on ok with the OW and they had a pleasant relationship, I doubt they will ever be close.
I think it would be better for you to not really say anything and to vent to a friend instead. It’s understandable to feel how you do, but I think you want to tell her the details because you feel angry and bitter, not because it would actually be good for DD to know

You shouldn’t use your daughter as someone to lean on or to unburden yourself to but at the same time I think it’s fine to say the odd statement that in your opinion nice people don’t cheat. You shouldn’t go on about it but at her age I don’t think you need to completely hide your opinion. You don’t want her thinking his and her behaviour are fine.

Oh ffs .. like the ow gets a free pass. Both are morally awful.

Your husband chose to end your marriage. Is he so weak willed that a woman can drag him away to be with her?

Save your ire for him.

Would you not be there as an adult woman for your mum to lean on?
I would absolutely want my mum to come to me for any support she ever needs.

So she probably doesnt need her eyes opening to his new wife's personality flaws then.

You should bite your tongue. If your dd wants to maintain any sort of relationship with her father, it will only work if she and the new wife get on OK so no need to try and upset that at the outset.

OW persisted in chasing XH and encouraging him to end our marriage and our family life.

anyone who pushes a person to end their marriage and leave their family, and move a 10 hour flight away from their own children is not a nice person.

Men who cheat on their wives then end the marriage to move away and live with their new girlfriend do it because they want to, not because they were 'encouraged' or 'pushed' .. he left because he would rather have a life with her then a life with you and his children.. if anyone isn't nice here, it is him.

To call her not nice, is to also call you DH not nice, and even though it's true, your DD doesn't need to hear that from you.. I'd leave it well alone.

At 20, that sounds like an awful lot. My mum was unhappily married and I dont think my 20 year old self had much to offer her regarding that and she wouldn't have expected me to be her support with it. In later years that did, of course, change.

The OW has hurt you and broken up your family, and her own, but that doesn't mean she's a bad person.

I'd try to move on. I don't think it's a bad thing for your daughter to get on with her fathers new wife. Yes the circumstances of their meeting wasn't ideal, and people got hurt, but she's a part of her life now.

People are complex creatures and are generally better than the worst thing they've ever done. So it's perfectly possible that while she made some rotten choices regarding her marriage and relationships, there are parts of her personality that are nice.
That said, you are well within your rights to hate her guts and your DD is being insensitive to that.
I would say to your DD that she's welcome to form her own opinion of the OW but that you're not open to hearing of her virtues, thanks very much.