Do I tell DD she's not nice?

[Weeeheee]

DD (20) is due to meet the OW in person soon at XH wedding to her.

DD has chatted online with OW a few times (she lives abroad). DD said the other day that she's looking forward to meeting OW, as she seems nice.

I'm desperate to discuss with DD why she's not nice.

OW persisted in chasing XH and encouraging him to end our marriage and our family life. OW was married herself, so was also cheating on her husband. She has a young child, so also broke up their family.

I do not blame OW for XHs choices. He ended our marriage, not her.

But anyone who pushes a person to end their marriage and leave their family, and move a 10 hour flight away from their own children is not a nice person.

A woman who cheats on her husband is not a nice person.

I want to discuss with DD why she thinks she's nice when she behaved in the way she did.

I know I shouldn't, as I'll sound bitter.

I'm not bitter at all - life is the best its been without XH in it.

But OW is not a nice person, and as a now adult, DD should be mature enough to consider the bigger picture.

I'm probably going to leave it, but would you say anything to DD?

If she is going to have any kind of a relationship with her dad she needs to be able to build a relationship with OW regardless of how it all came about.

I'm sure she's aware of at least some of the circumstances and that you have some views. Maybe she does to, but she still loves her dad. Its for her to deal with that, its separate from you.

No I wouldn't say anything. Your daughter is an adult and allowed to form her own opinions of someone. The truth is, people are rarely ALL nice or ALL horrible. This woman probably has nice traits, most people do and that's what your dd is seeing. Now that doesn’t mean she didn't do something that is (by most peoples standards) not nice in pursuing a married man and deceiving her own husband, but they're not mutually exclusive.

Now I'm saying this as someone who is the daughter in the same scenario as your daughter. As an adult (especially now I have my own dh and children) I view what my dad and his affair partner did as not nice and I can see (and still feel) the damage from the fall out of it. But I having now met and known my dad’s affair partner for many years, I can also say that she has nice qualities. She's never been unkind to me, she's welcoming and she’s intelligent. Admitting that doesn't justify what they did or take away any of the hurt it caused, but I can't truthfully say she's not a nice person because of it. She did something that wasn't very nice (as did my dad) but that doesn't make either of them devoid of niceness.

One difference between myself and your daughter though, I would never really go out of my way to tell my mother that I think my dad’s affair partner has nice qualities. I wouldn't want to hurt her feelings or make her think that I'm in any way excusing anything or minimising the hurt and upset that was caused. I think perhaps your daughter is a tad insensitive to say it to you, but I appreciate we’re all different.

I'm not saying any of this is your fault, but your DD is still very young and she's having to navigate the fallout from your and your XH's failed relationship as best she can. She's also presumably spent a chunk of her childhood dealing with the practical and emotional consequences of decisions made by adults.

The adults (and that includes you) don't get to put anything more on her. You don't get to demand anything more from her. It's already been hard enough for her, through no fault or choice of her own. Accept she's trying her best to deal with the situation gracefully and don't lay any further emotional burdens on her.

I disagree. I think chasing a married man is crass. She also had an affair behind her own DH back which is a double shitty thing to do. Clearly puts her own needs above everyone else needs, including her own DC. Hopefully karma will catch up with her and his head will be turned by the next one

Does she know about the affair and how your ex H and this woman broke up 2 marriages to be together?
If she does then I think you need to leave it to her to form her own opinion. But I think you are perfectly within your rights to tell your DD you don't want to hear about this woman and you dont want to hear her sing her praises. Your DD is an adult and she should be aware of how painful this is for you and she should respect your feelings in the matter.
If she doesn't know about the affair she is old enough to be told about it in a factual way with minimum details and then be left to carve her own relationship with this woman without involving you.

If she's repeatedly talking about how nice her future SM is and/or pushing you to agree that she seems nice then I think it's fine to tell her, ideally pretty briefly and dispassionately, that as your first introduction to OW was finding out she was having an affair with your husband and pressing him to leave you you personally aren't really eager to talk about or praise her although it's also perfectly fine if your daughter likes her. If she's just mentioned in passing that OW "seems nice" I'd take it as face value (they've had a couple of pleasant conversations) and not bring it up again. If she mentions it again, perhaps after another conversation, I think you can probably change the subject without making your feelings obvious.

If you feel yourself very tempted to bring the subject up again even if she doesn't, then consider what you'd hope to achieve. She obviously still wants a relationship with her dad, so she might as well get along with this woman rather than disliking her.

Yes.

XH told her

XH also told DS the nature of how they met online and broad brush strokes of the sexual website they used to publicly cam.

Both were teens at the time.

I've been in your situation but you have to remember that EXH cheated on you, not your DD. At 20 she's old enough to know the full story and to make up her own mind.

My DD ended up quite close to the OW, and although it hurt at first it meant an easier relationship with her dad, until he cheated on the OW, re-invented himself and doesn't see DD any more, but that's another story!

She's still occasionally in touch with the OW, more than her dad!

But none of that is wildly unusual.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/infidelity-rates-by-country?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Her marital activities are largely irrelevant to the OP’s DD unless the OW is vowing fidelity to her.

No need.

His selfishness manifested as soon as he left us. She called it when she saw it.

She hardly saw him before he moved abroad, as she'd seen who he became.

It was telling when she told me how unbothered she felt about him moving a 10 hour flight away from her.

So then she already knows that she has questionable morals, she probably isn’t mature enough to really comprehend the wider implications of the whole thing.

But what can you really do, if you try to make her dislike her dad’s new wife who gains here? All I see is loss for everyone, yes some people deserve it, but your daughter doesn’t.

You need to let it go

Someone who has no morals I would say isn’t trustworthy clearly. Untrustworthy and selfish are not traits to look for in meaningful relationships. Yes DD can have a superficial relationship with her on the surface but nothing more meaningful. Had they met without both cheating on their partners then she could have been an asset to DD’s life potentially, so I do think having the morals of ally alley cat does negatively affect relationships.

As someone who has been in your daughters position, I wouldn't say anything. I was aware from early teens there had been an affair but my DM never really let on how hurt she had been. She tried her best to facilitate a relationship between me and my Dad (despite him and OW not really making much effort) and kept her opinions to herself.
Only later in my 20's did I ask more about the details which she told me matter of factly without bitterness. It wasn't until my 30's that I appreciated just how hard it must have been for her but I massively admire her for it.
Pointing it out could harm your daughters relationship with her Dad...let her make her own mind up about it all. As it happens, I have an absolute minimal relationship with my Dad these days (a text exchange on birthdays/Christmas) and not a lot of respect, but he caused that himself with no interference from my Mum.

Leave your daughter unburdened by it all. It will
cause her conflict and guilt if she knows your feelings, and I don’t imagine you want that for your daughter. I will be much more freeing for you in the longer term to let it go and move on from it all.

Depends what you mean by nice. If you mean “has a strong moral compass” or “is always prioritises the feelings of others”, then yes, she’s not nice.

If your DD means nice as in “pleasant company” or “someone who I would enjoy spending time with” or “someone who shares the same interests/personality traits as me” then she could be very nice.

All this will do is make you look petty and bitter.

This is a difficult one.
I'd keep quiet for the moment and see how things pan out. If OW is mentioned just make non-committal remarks.
IME these cheaters are like a septic tank - eventually all the $h1£ floats to the top, becomes visible and starts to stink.
Your DD will see and smell it eventually.

I don’t know what sort of relationship you have with your daughter or her personality and I think that’s the most important thing to consider.
I have 2 daughters and if I was in your situation one of my daughters would absolutely understand my feelings and would be by my side venting with me and would want nothing to do with anyone who hurt me but it wouldn’t even occur to my other daughter how anyone felt about anything and she’d do whatever works for her.
I wouldn’t say anything to that daughter as she would not be interested but my other daughter is more loyal and would have so much empathy she would understand exactly how I must be feeling.

If her DF told her the situation and she was broadly unbothered, you’re not going to make any difference by telling her the OW isn’t nice.

It would be fair to say to your DD that you don’t want to discuss her at all, though.

Hard as it is for you, it’s okay for DD to have a relationship with them both.

I'm shocked that a 20-year-old can't work all this out for herself, unless this information has been deliberately kept from her. If the latter, I would stop doing that. It's time she knew the truth. She is an adult.

I'm sure that your DD is aware of everything that you have said and is just trying to negotiate her future relationship with her Dad, who wasn't nice either.

You will find it easier to support your daughter and your mental health will improve if your attitude to his future life can be more 'not my circus, not my monkeys'.

You need to tell your dd about what the OW did. Dd is an adult so she doesn’t need things censoring.

I think the best thing is to be non committal and just reply "I'm pleased she was pleasant to you" or similar. Because this isn't your DDs circus. Its not her fault her dad was a dud, and she probably just wants things to be as socially comfortable as possible, and I think she deserves that. Going to the wedding with a head full of reasons to think the bride is awful won't help her with that.
I'm sure as she passes through life she will form her own opinions on right and wrong behaviour and what that says of character. She is past the age of being 'taught' this and perhaps not yet reached the point where she joins the dots. Which doesn't in this situation matter, other than to your sense of injustice.

Petty?
Is she supposed to shrug it off and say “meh it was only my heart that was broken and my marriage ripped apart, tomorrow’s another’s day eh”

from your daughter's POV the best case scenario is that

1. her father's new wife IS nice - pleasant enough company, a good companion for her father
2. her mother has the satisfaction of a new life well-lived, flourishing and happy away from her former marriage, and
3. that she can spend as close as possible to zero time and energy thinking about her mother being incredibly hurt and betrayed by her father, either of her parents having sex, or trying to reconcile their worst behavior with the loving parental relationship she wants to have with them.

what do you gain from trying to prove that your ex and his wife to be are in the wrong, and you are in the right?