Do I tell DD she's not nice?

[Weeeheee]

DD (20) is due to meet the OW in person soon at XH wedding to her.

DD has chatted online with OW a few times (she lives abroad). DD said the other day that she's looking forward to meeting OW, as she seems nice.

I'm desperate to discuss with DD why she's not nice.

OW persisted in chasing XH and encouraging him to end our marriage and our family life. OW was married herself, so was also cheating on her husband. She has a young child, so also broke up their family.

I do not blame OW for XHs choices. He ended our marriage, not her.

But anyone who pushes a person to end their marriage and leave their family, and move a 10 hour flight away from their own children is not a nice person.

A woman who cheats on her husband is not a nice person.

I want to discuss with DD why she thinks she's nice when she behaved in the way she did.

I know I shouldn't, as I'll sound bitter.

I'm not bitter at all - life is the best its been without XH in it.

But OW is not a nice person, and as a now adult, DD should be mature enough to consider the bigger picture.

I'm probably going to leave it, but would you say anything to DD?

I do not blame OW for XHs choices. He ended our marriage, not her.

It really does sound like you blame her. Your next sentence is about OW pushing your XH to leave you! If he didn’t want to go and wanted to stay with you, no one on this earth could push him to leave…. But he did

If my dad told me that, I would feel sick.

If I found out my mum had shared these videos with her mates (probably a few people who have kids I’ve grown up with and are part of my social group) and they had all seen them (and were no doubt laughing about them etc), I would want to curl up and die. I would never be able to face them again.

That’s what mum has done here.

If in my teens my father told me that, I'd never want to speak to him again - and if I discovered my mum had done what OP did, I'd absolutely be grossed out that she wanted to, and even more disgusted in my father - and I'd blame him for doing it in the first place.

Are you okay with your daughter having a relationship her father - essentially both your husband and the OW did the same thing.

I’m not ‘trying to argue’ anything of the kind. My point is only that the thing that is advocated on endless Mn threads as the Best Possible Scenario/Decent Thing To Do if you find yourself attracted to someone else, is still enormously damaging. This guy had not slept with the other woman. He had told his wife immediately, asked for a divorce and moved out. Does that make him a good guy? How do we weigh up the pain caused vs the lack of subterfuge?

Just because the right thing to do isn't wonderful, doesn't mean it's not the least bad option. That guy sounds like an idiot for leaving his wife for someone he met a week before, or like he hadn't been happy for a long time, and hadn't been decent enough to actually tell her that he was feeling that way...but at least he didn't add insult to injury by cheating on her as well.

Well, that’s my point, really. Human relationships are muddy and exist in grey areas. He’s been married to the other woman for 14 years, eventually repaired relationships with his adult children, and his ex is in a longterm relationship too after a long period of (understandable) anger and bitterness. They both lead utterly different lives now to the one they led when they were married, and they have never, to the best of my knowledge, set eyes on one another since.

I think that when your confidence and self esteem have been totally destroyed by on going abuse, finding someone who still sees your worth as a person and falls in love with you can give you the courage to move on?

I'm sure it's different for everyone. But this makes absolute sense to me.

And whatever the reasoning, I would not blame anyone who is being physically (or mentally) abused by their partner for cheating. Abuse is the biggest betrayal of all. Nobody owes someone who abuses then anything, least of all fidelity. In my view.

Frankly, if that's what they need to do to help them find the courage to leave, that's fine by me! Whatever it takes.

But cheating is not a grey area. It's clearly wrong, and creates far more hurt and damage than being honest and decent (although frankly, I don't believe that a man left his wife for a woman he met once a week ago and had didn't have sex with, but then married her and has been with her for 14 years. I think he's full of shit).

Anyway, my point was simply that any divorce is hurtful, but one where you find out that your husband has been lying to you, betraying you, and fucking and/or in love with someone else while he's been having sex with you and professing his love, just makes it worse.

Personally, I just think the, "oh, I only cheated on my ex-wife because she was abusive," sounds a lot like the "my ex-wife is a crazy bitch" stories told by feckless men who want to cover up their own moral failings, and the whole "oh, my wife is so abusive, you're the only one who understands me, darling, please save me from her," story sounds like a man who just wants to justify cheating in order to reel in an OW.

No, an abusive partner isn't owed fidelity, but I'm not sure I'd trust a person who blamed their cheating on their ex's behaviour. It's a red flag.

Unless the DD asks for her opinion on the OW I think the OP needs to suck it up and keep quiet.
Saying "I was hurt when you said you liked her" is very manipulative and puts the DD in a really difficult position.

It's really hard bit you have to put your big girls pants on as the mum in this situation and stop putting yourself and your hurt at the centre of it all.

This is NOT about the OP and her feelings towards the OW, it's about her DD who is able to exercise free will & forge a relationship with her dad's new partner if she wants to.

It's just for me and my dog. ..

But he didn’t ‘cheat’. I’ve no idea what might have happened had there been the opportunity, obviously, but there wasn’t. Once he’d gone home, moved out, said he wanted a divorce etc, then he started returning to her country to see her. I assume they were sexually involved then, but is that ‘cheating’ if his wife knew exactly what was happening and the divorce was under way? It’s a total car crash, obviously. I mean, they share grandchildren now, but have never attended baptisms and the like in a way that means they’re there together.

How do you know he didn’t cheat? Anyway, I think I was perfectly clear in my last post, and there's really nothing else to add.

Respectfully, I’m not obliged to provide details of someone else’s schedule to mitigate your incredulity about the timeline of someone else’s long-past extramarital relationship. But you keep right ahead thinking that people who have affairs are some kind of monsters rather than ordinary flawed human beings if it suits you.

That can be true, but it definitely can happen that a person is so awful, I can't judge their partner if they stray. There was a poster on here once whose husband was highly abusive in every way and even threatened to kill her animals. She formed a relationship with another man and then became the monster.

Or my own father, who I am sure never cheated but was always screaming and swearing at my mother, calling her foul names, throwing food and household items around, bashing me
around, pulling the phone out of the wall while someone was using it and so on. I honestly couldn't judge my mother at all if she had strayed. I could forgive an affair much more easily than any of that. I wouldn't have liked it if he'd had a discreet affair but given the choice, I know what I think is worse.

I'm really sorry you've been through so much OP. I can't imagine how difficult and distressing it must all have been.

I had a friend in my teenage years whose dad left for the woman he had an affair with. After a while they moved in together and so OW was very much a part of my friend's life. They actually got on pretty well but friend's mum made her feel really guilty about that.

None of this is your DD's fault and despite his infidelity, it would presumably be a positive thing for her to maintain a relationship with her father? Like it or not, the OW comes as part of the package now. Please don't make that awkward and difficult for her. She's 20 - old enough to make up her own mind and if friends' children are anything to go by, will see through them soon enough if they're not genuine.

I'm slightly curious about the narrative of OW pursuing your ex etc. It does rather sound like you're absolving him of responsibility despite your other statements to the contrary. Any man not looking for that wouldn't have put themselves in the situation where she felt she could do so - or if they had they'd have shut it down pronto.

I guess I'm of the view that generally lovely people sometimes do shitty things. We have a good friend who had an affair with a very close friend of his ex wife. I feel I can simultaneously abhor how he conducted himself in that instance and like him in other respects. Adult relationships are complex and messy and these things are rarely cut and dried.

No, you don’t say anything about OW or XH to your DD. It sounds like it was an incredibly unpleasant experience but you leave it in the past.
You say that life is better without XH so don’t spoil it or your relationship with your DD.

If you must, put it politely. Otherwise it will achieve nothing but anger.

No, that’s your shit to carry, nothing to do with DD. She’s an adult anyway and can make her own decisions.

There is no need for you to cover for OW. You can tell your daughter an outline of the facts, why you don't like OW, which is perfectly reasonable and not "being bitter" so she understands how you feel about her.
DD can make her own decisions. She's an adult and deserves to have all the info.
In your DDs shoes I would be annoyed if things like that had been kept from me. She's not a child. She can handle it!

Don’t do it . But I understand why you feel you need too . Can someone else like grandparent an unco not aunt have that conversation with her maybe?

True, though. It'll not help anyone - least of all the daughter who's already in the middle.

I never understand why you're not allowed to be bitter. Of course you're going to feel bitter if your DH ends your marriage for another woman. That doesn't mean that you don't move on etc etc....but surely it's a perfectly human response to feel bitter for a while under the circumstances. Having said that I'm glad your are much happier without your ex
I would tell DD. No question. Good luck OP x

No, it will come back and bite you on the ass