There We Are Then - part 4, but episode 278946, probably.

[mummy917]

For anyone who is still offering messages of hope, wisdom and general loveliness 🥰

I think it’s probably just force of habit more than anything else and I will probably think about his reaction to what I say/do for a long while yet.

He gets the electric shears on his hair and I had no clue what number or anything he gets, but I know now and won’t need to ask him again.

I didn’t work last Christmas Day so I’ll be working some of it this year; we split the 12 hour day shift half so we only work a half shift unless we do the night shift. I was going to suggest I request to work the afternoon shift. I’ve also been wondering about navigating presents, because I have a few ideas for them and don’t want us to potentially end up buying the same things so I will mention it to him at some point down the line.

Be careful about telling him what you will get the kids for Christmas because I wouldn't put it past him to buy the same.
Be very assertive that the toys you buy are from you. Not from you both

@mummy917

I think it’s probably just force of habit more than anything else and I will probably think about his reaction to what I say/do for a long while yet.

I think you're right. But you'll get there.

It took me quite a few months to stop my default reaction of 'WWesHD' (What Would estranged H Do) when confronted with a decision or problem. But I eventually realized how freeing it was to NOT have to consider him or what his reaction might be. And that my decisions didn't affect him on whit and he didn't even need to know them.

Again, I'm old so no minor DCs. But I did start making my own decisions for our dog who is now in my sole charge, something that would have infuriated him in 'the before times'.

Sadly I’ll be really shocked if he buys them anything for Christmas or their birthdays. My guess is he’ll ask to be included in your presents with the ‘promise’ of paying you back in the future.

Though, me and my ex have got the same thing for our son, I think it's happened twice in 6 years? And it's just wow you've got X at mummy's house AND daddy's house!

But yes, @mummy917 's ex probably would try to get the same thing just to be an arsehole.

It wouldn’t actually matter if he bought the same as they could then have one at each house. I really wouldn’t tell him what you’re buying as I’m sure he’ll find some way to spoil it by upstaging you or even just telling the kids what you’re getting them.

Don't do this. Don't talk to him unless it is date and time stuff. He is a shit. You can't rely on him. Don't tell him what you're getting your children for Christmas. If he is thoughtful enough to buy them the same things you're getting them, then as a PP said, great, one in each house. And no, the presents you buy for your children on any occasion are not bought 50:50 jointly with the vague hope that your TWAT ex will repay you half of anything you spend, they are only from you. His presents are from him and if there aren't any, well, that's tough and a hard lesson for your children to learn. Do not give him any grace, in the wish not to hurt your children, he does not deserve it. You are a single parent, do not rely on him for anything at all. Pretend he doesn't exist, except for pick up and drop off times.

Don't share your Christmas lists or gifting thought with him. And expect him to get shitty towards Christmas because he has never actually had to think about it or put any kind of effort in.

And if they are going to his part way through Xmas day please please don’t let them take any of their presents with them as you will never see them again. Just say there will be more lovely presents at Daddy’s, these are to stay here.

Dont do that. You must know that won't end well. He will just turn it round on you. Just buy what you know your children will love and leave it up to him do do what if anything he is going to do.

You have got to change your mindset here.

You absolutely do need to get used to not texting him, not being the nice, kind, thoughtful person that we all can see you are, and grey rocking him all the time. And you will. Lots of practice in the mirror!

Don’t share any Christmas info with him. You do whatever you want to do. Leave Twat to his own devices. If he asks you to get gifts and says he will pay you back, say no, that’s not happening, you still owe me £X for lots of other items. You will need to sort it all yourself.

You will soon stop caring about what he thinks and realise that really doesn’t matter at all.

Seconding not telling him anything he doesn't need to know.

We all get where you're coming from OP but he'll use whatever info he can get against you and you'll stress over it and try to hold it in. The feeling of disappointment and astonishment over how he is now (you, by all accounts a decent and kind woman, married him presumably because you genuinely loved him) is sh*tty, naturally you want to protect your kids from feeling the same kind of disappointment.

But that will diminish once you see your kids coping just fine because they have a great mother, and vice versa.

Cleaning up after him might also encourage him to make even bigger problems because he knows how much it hurts you.

You absolutely do not discuss Christmas gifts because any from him will stay at his any way and if he won't go 50/50 on uniform then he's not going to cough up for joint gifts either. Don't tell him what you're getting your DC because he will one up on you or even worse tell the kids what they're getting from you in an attempt to ruin your day. My exh did exactly this and got lots of the most wanted toys that year which really overwhelmed them while I did a lovely Santa stocking and their main gift was a toy vacuum cleaner which they'd been begging for. All of the gifts went back to ex's house so were forgotten as soon as he was out the door anyway.
Also don't be tempted to do a joint Christmas 'for the kids sake'. I did this thinking it would be best for DC and it wasn't. Ex didn't contribute, help cook/clear up, just sat being waited upon with a face like a slapped arse and buggered off home after with all 'his' toys and without even a thank you. Worst Christmas ever....for the 4 or so hours I endured it for and ex went home. You tell the Twat what the split will be according to your shifts as I presume that he doesn't work Christmas? So if you work Christmas Day afternoon-evening then you tell him that you'll have Christmas Eve and Christmas morning and he'll have Christmas Afternoon and Boxing Day which is 50/50. This also gives you a chance to do the Christmas Day night shift if you want to. Don't forget Monday 28th Dec is a bank holiday so Christmas is 4 days long this year but also he'll be wanting you to have the kids New Years Eve & Day so it looks like the bargaining chips are all on your side of the table.
Please remember that this person is not reasonable, not caring, not kind and is definitely not your friend any more!

It takes years to get out of those habits of thought and ‘checking’. Years. I still get the instinctive guilt now and it’s been 13 years. I don’t think it’s ever been reciprocated.

@mummy917 you are doing so so well despite Twattoo’s best efforts.

This. Grey rock him re: Christmas gifts. Too many ways for him to ruin it, deliberately upstage you, or con you out of money with false promises.

After reading all your replies, I will definitely not mention any Christmas presents I have thought of. There’s not a cat in hell’s chance that I’d agree to do joint presents either.

I was going to request to work Christmas afternoon which is 2-8 shift and have them Christmas Eve and Christmas morning so he could then have his Christmas with them and carry it on until Boxing Day. I’m pretty sure Christmas lands on his weekend so he will probably be clapping his hands that half of it will be taken up by me having them and then he’ll no doubt say he has plans for new year when it’s my weekend anyway.

No he doesn’t work any of Christmas. He’ll break up a few days before Christmas and then won’t go back until the beginning of January.

However to stick to his 50/50 he may decide to have the children the whole of his weekend.

Honestly if he won’t share Christmas, don’t rise to it. You’ll give them a much happier and richer second Chtistmas a few days later on your time. Don’t give him any amo or satisfaction. Possibly start by requesting the afternoon, as he will maybe offer you the morning then?

I think it will be so hard getting out of the habit of wanting to check in, communicate and think this guy is ever going to put the kids first but he isnt. I think the sooner you keep contact to absolute bare minimum, the better it will be for you. No checking in with things, no thinking he cares if you are tired or need help or want to split costs, this man doesnt care and in fact seems like he would weaponise anything against you.

Communicate when absolutely necessary only and everything else, make decisions for yourself. With hair cuts, he doesnt take them then he has no input, if they end up with double gifts its fine, if he doesn't give half for uniforms they simply dont go with him so he either washes the set they come in or he buys his own, same with other things they need.

I think that changing your mindset with communication will take time but the sooner you do that, I think the happier you will be when you take away his ability to manipulate and annoy you.

No, don't talk to him about Christmas presents. He'll just go out of his way to twist it all and have a go at you for being controlling again. Leave him to it. It doesn't matter if they get two of the same, one can be at your house and one at his.

I agree. You do your Christmas. Buy your gifts for the DC. What he does is up to him.

Trying to do joint gifts will end in horrid exchanges, resentment, disagreement about how much to spend, sniping etc. It’s not worth it.

The only times ex and I tried this is was disaster e.g wanting to get DD a camera and lenses for her school photography GCSE and A level . Ex H suggests “ Why can’t she make do with her phone camera” etc

It’s not worth the angst. If you want to share an occasional more expensive present then get your parents to chip in?

Twatoo can deliver whatever gifts he wants and if there are duplicates you can return/ sell one or keep one at each house.

@mummy917

I think this ref. Xmas presents. Please don’t talk to him about Xmas presents! He’s not on your team. And so far, he’s demonstrating he is not reasonable. Judge him by how he behaves, not by how you would.

He needs to be on his own on this one. Think of it like a behavioural experiment, let’s see what he does….

He’s not engaged with their likes, tuned into them like you are. Short of them telling him what they want, I think it’s REALLY unlikely he’ll spontaneously buy the same present. If he does, then there’s one for each home.

As much as it hurts, if it’s his time, don’t ask if you can have them Christmas Day, he will say no to spite you. Have an early Christmas Eve/Day by special arrangement with Santa. It will be magical.

@mummy917

A note to jot down for the child arrangement order. My BFF's order specified Xmas was to alternate yearly no matter whose 'time' it was. IIRC, it was specified as 7pm on Xmas Eve until 7pm Xmas night. I don't think he ever had him though as he couldn't be bothered to 'do' Xmas, which was fine with her. But every year he 'asked' if he could come to hers and every year he got pissed off when she refused and threatened 'next year I'll have him'. But next year never happened. Wouldn't surprise me if Twat-a Claus does similar. He's not going to want to put up a tree, buy gifts, cook a big dinner, etc. But he'll expect to come to yours.

It was the same for their son's birthday, Easter, and Thanksgiving, those were alternate years. Mother's Day was always 'hers', Father's Day was always 'his' as were their respective birthdays.

Her order was the most detailed and specific order I'd ever seen. She knew her exH would jerk her around if it wasn't.

@mummy917 I hope your daughter has a wonderful first day at school. I hope drop off goes smoothly for you and isn’t too emotional (watching your baby go to big school) ☺️. I hope your son has a good first day back too.