There We Are Then - part 4, but episode 278946, probably.

[mummy917]

For anyone who is still offering messages of hope, wisdom and general loveliness 🥰

Thank you, everything you are all saying makes a lot of sense and is true, but I have struggled since Friday to get past what he said. I told him that he has put me and the kids through so much in the last 6 months and his response was “I have done what has been the right thing and when they’re older, they’ll understand why I left.” He literally has the power to make me out to be this awful person to the kids when they are older, and if I try to defend myself, I am told I am just making excuses. He will come out on top every time, because he will always make sure he does.

Oh believe me he won’t do long term with your kids - they will have no doubts at all about who had their best interests at heart. They will probably still love him because he’s their Dad but I’m sure they’ll see exactly why he left 😂😂- and that won’t be his version !!

I think as others have said you need to look at the direction of travel. Yes, there are ups and downs and right now, he's said things which mean you are questioning your own actions, so you're in a down. But there will be an up to come. And the general direction is onwards and upwards.

You are undoubtedly making progress and some days it's just slow going, but you are continuing to move forwards.

It gets better. I promise you, and if you look back to your earlier threads, you can see how far you have already come.

He won’t come out on top. The kids will just know they were left, end of.
As my old nan used to say, talk is cheap.
Actions matter. The kids will follow their hearts and will know how much you’ve done.
When they are older they will grow up and have their own lives. It’s not healthy for him to be projecting this into the future.
It is not about winning or losing. The kids won’t know why he left they are far too young.
He is doing to you what he’s always done which is emotionally abusing you. And he does it every time he’s given a chink of space to do it. And every time, he does a little inward dance because he enjoys hurting you.
You have left him know that he’s upset you and that’s enough. He’s never going to take that in.
Apart from arrangements, stop communicating with him on a personal level. It is just causing you pain.

But he won’t because your children will realise who has been the consistent parent and the better parent who has always put them first . You need to stop talking to him , only discuss what you need to about the children or even better do it via message so that you don’t speak to him at all .

There's a thing called "post separation abuse" and make no mistake, that's what he's doing to you. He wants to undermine you at every opportunity, he'll discredit you at every opportunity, he'll withhold finances to make your life as difficult as possible. All the meanwhile, he'll disregard the children's needs when they're with him ie taking to parties, doing homework, etc. And he'll be dripping poison into their ears about what you haven't done properly.

All you can do is "teflon coat" yourself so that his barbs and digs never get through your surface level. And that's going to take time but you'll get there. And it's highly likely that you'll find a time in the future where the kids click on to what he's doing, and that's when they'll start asking to be with you more.

The irony is he’s saying it exactly how it is. When the children are older they will see exactly why he left, they will see him for the selfish person he is. Young children don’t see that but it doesn’t take long for them to see a person for who they are.

He only comes out on top in his own tiny mind. Don't give him that place in your mind.

Honestly? I'd have laughed and said, "You keep telling yourself that, knock yourself out" and then carried on laughing as I shut the door in his face.

Because the truth is he doesn't have the power to do this. The children see the difference between you as parents day in and day out ... and you are the parent who is there for them, who makes sure they have what they need. Make sure they can see you being there for them and it will all blow back on him.

Christ, what a manipulative bastard he is.

Oh you know some men do this, they say the children will understand when they are older, sending a sinister undertone that sounds like a threat to say they will know what you a really like and why I had to leave you.

Bollocks, that is just those men trying to justify their actions to anyone who will listen

What the children will understand is that their mother stepped up while their father stepped back. The father will then give the mother no credit for that and go even further to say that she turned the children against him.

Some men go through life playing the victim.

Having said that the patterns of your marriage can't be wiped out in a few months, just as they didn't develop over a few months. Accepting these setbacks, accepting that it really is him, not you will take time but ultimately will help you to continue to move forward.

You have had a sudden and traumatic experience being left by him, and yet, you have taken care of all of your children's needs, you are working, taking extra shifts and arranging childcare. You have taken care of the housing, the bills and finances and amongst all of this you are even beginning to enjoy some time for yourself.

Being a strong woman does not mean being a controlling woman, that is just a narrative that some men want us to believe.

This @mummy917 my friend’s ex moaned about her to their son (didn’t pay up but bought the odd Disney present). She worked full time and struggled and never bad mouthed him. The son worked it all out. He loved him as he was his Dad. But he knew he was a manipulative lazy shyster. He did once ask while quite young why my friend divorced his Dad and she was honest in an age-appropriate way rather than slagging him off. Her son is a lovely adult now.

Yep. My friend's eldest was 11 when he worked out all the games his Disney dad was playing with his mum/them. There's simply no way your kids will thank him for leaving. He really is a deluded little cunt if he actually believes that but I don't think he does, it's just another stick to beat you with.

Hi op it breaks my heart to see how things are going with you. It’s a rollercoaster unfortunately. You have to remember he chose all of this. He wants to control and manipulate you and still make you take all the blame. Op don’t - marriage is 2 people it takes 2 to make it work and he didn’t want to make any effort to keep his family together whereas you did. You have seen how horrible he is and like others have said you are missing the nicer version of him but he’s long gone. Your kids will never believe you caused all this heartache. Kids are resilient and as they grow up they will see his nastiness and they will be grateful he left you but for your sake not his. I know it’s hard but try to be more thick skinned when he blames you just say ok whatever makes you feel good about yourself. You are definitely not to blame if you were such a horrible person why have 4 kids with you. This is basically him being stuck and wants his freedom so he can do what he wants nothing more or less. He’s got the kids to save himself money he would rather dump them on his mum than pay you maintenance he’s not exactly father of the year. The kids will remember nan more than him. Please talk to your friends when you feel low they will remind you of the twat he is now. You are a fantastic mother who would happily have your children everyday he can’t say the same. Still a twat.

He said all of this to me over the phone on Friday when he rang about our son’s rugby training this morning and I dared to mention everything I’ve provided and asked him when he was going to contribute his half (I mentioned money because I knew today I was paying for a new rugby hoodie today as the old one is getting too small). This is when he started spouting everything all over again. Aside from this one conversation over the phone, everything for at least the last 6 weeks has been in texts for that reason.

But is he stepping up with the 50/50 ?because the children will come to recognise him for who he truly is (he can’t hide that forever) He is projecting his own fears about himself onto you ! Do not let him do this, what a truly wicked man he is your children as all children do in the end will see the situation more clearly than you think. Continue doing as you are and you must now see why you have to stop bailing him out so they see the real him as you have. You are their mum and doing a brilliant job.

You are doing great. Keep believing in yourself. Everyone has wobbles - it's normal. Don't talk to him anymore, do it all through emails or parenting apps. Don't tell him how you feel - your feelings are private. Keep track of your spending. The problem is that when you are nice and reasonable you judge people by your standards and frankly most people are crap and have much lower standards. You can hope he will be better but should expect that he will be worse.

I think you should stop any telephone calls, just don’t answer, then text to say what’s up etc. You put that boundary in place. Whenever you purchase anything that is joint, just WhatsApp the receipt and say x amount is your share. In the long run I think you’ll end up paying most, but you’ll be happy to anyway, it’s often not worth the argument.
I had a different email address for my ex, so I could deal with him when I felt strong, but I understand that isn’t practical in your shared care situation as there’s much more contact.
From the outside looking in, we all just see that he makes you feel bad about yourself, he dulls your spirit. Take control of the dimmer switch yourself, it’s the only way forward

And I don’t mean that financially you should let everything go, I couldn’t afford too, but it caused me more stress I think than the money was worth if you get me. If you can afford to let some things be, then it’s worth it until you’re able to cope with the nonsense that comes back at you. Then once you’re stronger it’ll be a different ball game all together.

The twat strikes again! He’s getting annoyed that you are calling out his shitness

Hi op I would reiterate your phone call in a text or email and say it’s obviously too difficult to discuss finances with you on the phone as you always shout me down. So from now on unless it’s urgent no phone calls but here is my outgoings and before you splash the cash on yourself please remember your children cost us both money. You wanted 50/50 which you have and this also means you have to pay 50/50 for everything they need. Ps op remember you will get to see his bank statement and you can see where his money is going and if it’s obvious not on his children your solicitor will make you get your fair share.

@mummy917 if he does this again just put the phone down on him. You absolutely do not have to listen to his abuse. I did this to my ex, it drove him mad, he tried to ring me again and again, I just declined the call. Simple texts only from now on. Ignore his absolutely entitled vile attitude. You can do this OP. Take your power back.

My dd loves her dad but has recently told me that his actions don’t match his words. She said, “He tells me I’m his number one but then he puts everyone else above me”. She’s 15. They see it.

Just because he says something doesn’t make it true. Even if he fully believes what he’s saying, that doesn’t make it true. Whenever he’s materially in the wrong (as with the money and basic provisions) is when he has to try to make you into a bad person. He cannot be in the wrong. Narcissistic people can’t tolerate anything that undermines their self image, and they’re fierce with the DARVO because their sense of self is so shallow and has no substance behind it.

Ive said it before but any time you have a call it allows him to treat you like shit, for that reason you really should keep to in writing only. Dont give him the power to do this because he does it every time either in person or on the phone.

He is right though, when the kids are older they will see the truth but this wont be what he thinks, because these men are so delusional they do not see how shitty their behaviour is but everyone around them does, including their own kids. I had a friend in this position and her partner said something similar, 10 years later and the kids barely have a relationship with their dad of their own choice because they dont like how selfish he is. Their mum tries to encourage it but they can't stand him as a person.

He 100% believes what he says and the reasons behind why he left. I said to him yesterday that if what he says and calls me is true, then why on earth would I have been so devastated by all of this? Surely I would’ve just carried on with everything and wouldn’t have even entertained the “pick me dance”, suggested marriage counselling or ended up needing sertraline. He went silent at that part.

All communication will once again go back to texts only, I can’t go through this again.