Estranged from my autistic university daughter after years of conflict

[YAdaughter]

YA daughter is 20 and at university.

She is autistic as am I. I would say the relationship hasn’t been good for about 5 years.
She was highly controlling of home life. What channel we could watch, and it steadily got worse as teenage years kicked in.

We tried to put in boundaries and basic rules and it just got really bad. Most of the really nasty stuff was directed towards me and not her Dad - he’s a quiet gentle giant.

She would call me a Karen, Terf, even a Tory (I voted labour) and any insult she could think of - I’ve been called mental, controlling, bitch and I’ve even been punched. She was failing at university socially (not academically) and no self care so GP recommended she move back home. It was vile.

Daily insults. No basic rules following. She literally used to say ‘what you looking at bitch? ‘ if I came downstairs in my own home. I’m a Headteacher in my day to day job. I hope I’m a good one and kind and empathetic. She would tell me I was stupid on a daily basis and to chill.

She would leave used sanitary towels left on the floor in the bathroom etc and she just treated us like an ATM. She went out late (3 am) and then phoned as she was on the street in city centre at night etc it wasn’t just what she said it me but how she said it and I kicked her out the following day and offered to book a hotel or something but that I couldn’t do it anymore - I had high blood pressure, panic attacks, and I was very ill. She agreed to leave and go to a friend but wouldn’t tell us which one. And this was a month ago. She said she is safe and won’t tell us where. She says at the moment we haven’t supported her and that we need to understand she wants space and if she wants money or a relationship she will phone. We did contact wellbeing and she had lied as she had said they were supporting her but the university had no record on her.

I lurch from loving her and missing her one minute to wanting to scream at her and hate her the next.

I’m having counselling but it’s not helping. She wanted a huge holiday and back in September we agreed and are due to go on a once in a lifetime safari next week. (She has a younger sister). She has emailed us to say she is 100% not coming as she needs to heal. I’m furious, sad, angry but I’m also glad she isn’t coming and I feel conflicted by that. She won’t talk to my lovely DH or respond to her sibling or grandmother etc DH says I need to focus on me and we need to focus on each other and our family. I’m so angry about the holiday we booked it for her mental health as it was the one she wanted. I feel so angry I’m such a shit mum and I failed to raise a nice person - it’s all on me isn’t it? I tried over the years to get support, diagnosis etc and no one really helped us as she was so clever and masked so heavily out of the home

What support did your dd have at school? EHCP continuing to 6th form, DSA at uni? Lack of support for autism can absolutely result in overwhelm in the individual and manifest in breakdown of family relationships that feedback negatively to feelings of overwhelm and feedback into further family breakdown. This is especially relevant where a parent is also autistic. Horrible mess. But this is where you are at.

you are autistic. Dd is autistic. So you have to approach things differently. This does not mean no boundaries. Just that parenting strategies for the average NT teen with NT parents don’t work. You need different strategies. You also know that ND children/teens are developmentally around 1/3 lower than chronological age in terms of emotional maturity.

the shock of parental abandonment with no other support in place will not enable an autistic young person to become NT and cope. If you follow the tough loved approach you have to be prepared for the consequences.

Also the high achievement academically is not relevant to her social and emotional struggles.

What support did your dd have at school?

Very little she spoke early (aged 2 in full sentences) and was very, very rule bound. But a sticker and was rather loathed at primary school, we started play therapy aged 4 (learning to take turns) and so on - at least one a year trying to learn how to be a friend and how to have one. She decided at aged 4 what she wanted to be and despite me asking her to pause, review etc she was determined. By aged 8 she had ready pretty much ever challenging book in the library in the kids sections, wanted adult company and to play and win (highly competitively) any game. By 11 she has finished the gcse maths course and was pretty good (gcse standard) at Spanish etc and so the list goes on.

She couldn’t see that anything was wrong with her (nor is there as such she is just wired differently). Her secondary school encouraged this and obviously covid hit in Year 7 which suited her massively but a huge problem for us. She had all day to study and she studied. She refused to look at the idea of ND full stop -calling others stupid. It was heart breaking. The school didn’t want to refer her and said there was no issue (autism in girls is not as readily understood), she was pretty good friends with me and DH and her sibling and life was ok. Yes she was stubborn but I think we got her. School didn’t. Her mental health deteriorated about Year 10 and she still hadn’t started periods but she couldn’t see why she has to do certain things. Autism assessment was as always in the nhs system she wasn’t deemed urgent. Until she was. For example she wanted to do 9 A levels the school and we obviously said this wasn’t a good idea and tried to explain why and she countered all of (she can tie anyone up in knots)
In the end against my better judgement and others she did 5 A levels no one could talk her out of it and she has completed the course for 2 of the A levels by the start of year 12. She got periods and it was dire truly awful and fortunately we had a good GP by then We tried to teach her mindfulness, yoga. Swimming etc but it’s exhausting it’s like trying to wrestle a black hole.

We got specialist counsellor and she pretended all was fine and oh my god I was exhausted.
She excels in debate or in a stressful situation where you have to sort everything out. Almost classic type of ADHD needs pain and drama to sort stuff out. DH is really ill now and my head is still rolling. Youngest doesn’t seem affected.

We have encouraged her to take a year out. The university up until recently didn’t really take my concerns seriously just saying she wasn’t deemed urgent excelling on her course.

It can be like a black hole she will work until exhaustion. But getting started can someone be like pushing something up hill.

I sent a message this morning - it followed the advice given shorter and directed but kinder. I had already taken out the proud of academic and wrote instead I am proud of all your achievements etc listed some non academic one including a tv series we loved watching together, so it covers all the bases I think. Although it asks for all comms to go through Dad it also says in the future I’m open to a new adult relationship and give her support and empathy etc but we have worded it firmly but positively.

DSA? She won’t and hasn’t applied for it. There were numerous grants and pockets of money even her gold D of E is finished but paperwork not done she won’t sign the form. Chill people she kept saying so chill I did. She hates being ND, she hates being called disabled etc . I get that I hate being told I have a disability …. Sorry I need to go and lie down but she hasn’t replied to the message but she is muted.

Wow, she sounds intense OP - but very intelligent and driven. It sounds like you have put a huge amount into supporting her

Brutally, you need to stop contacting her, particularly if your DH is sending the long convoluted essay re not contacting you. I absolutely back @Francestein, her message is more impactful. You need complete clarity/instructions, but not a huge waffle. I understand he wants to tell her that you need space but she won’t care, she is not in the headspace to receive such a long message which basically asks for empathy. Pull back, @YAdaughter and enjoy the place you’re in with your fabulous DH and DD2.

Let this be a lesson to everyone about weak parenting. If a 17 year old punches a parent unprovoked so hard they are bruised and in A&E, why weren’t the police called? Why was her aggressive and abusive language tolerated on a daily basis? Why was she allowed to hoard crap in the garage, loft, etc, for years without being forced to do an annual clear out?

This is an example of weak doormat parents who created their own monster.

Wow, just wow.

A weak doormat parent married to another weak doormat parent and my daughter is a monster.

I’m in shock literal shock at this.

I’m autistic I’m ADHD - I have done my best it wasn’t enough because I needed help and none came except team tagging with my husband - calling the police when she punched me full on in the face it wouldn’t have been the right move and underneath it all she is not a monster she is a girl with autism ADHD who had Covid years upon her and like many autistic people she struggles massively. For me autism means ‘You don’t fit’ - I don’t fit, I’m feel I’m wrong for society - it would be better off with off without me. That’s a struggle.

She is under wellbeing. But she says her brain can’t get out - she’s feels enough of a monster without someone like you saying it about her. My life is a daily struggle. Hers too. I suspect you don’t understand this or autistic meltdowns or burnouts. I understand that. I understand the anger.

So I’m weak, I’m a poor parent - maybe you are correct. But I’ve done my bloody best and made the decision I thought right at the right time. Maybe the police should have been involved. But I don’t think it would have helped in that situation.

I asked for advice - do you actually have any?

in answer - we do clear her stuff out periodically but it’s so hard and not easy especially as she was living on halls etc where there was no support for her none. She’s hasn’t got the tool kit to reach out but hopefully she is doing now. She will scream when we go in her room and start tidying and have a panic attack afterwards she is grateful. Underneath it all is a scared child not adult trying to survive.

Like uni she made some friends in the first week she misread a social cue and corrected someone (she does this) and they all dropped her - she didn’t eat for 4 days and when I got to her was a mess.

She made some other friends and things were fine and then she said she thought for once she would tell them she was autistic and one of the girls said ‘oh that explains why you like what you are you are disabled’ DD cried her eyes out as it was literally the first time she told anyone. She didn’t recover from that.

Verbal abuse I walk away. Sometimes I lash back. Yes we try to address it but much of it is tone and yes it is only me she knows but she can’t stop. She tells me this in tears when she is able.

Yes I am weak and tired and exhausted and clearly a shockingly bad parent else I wouldn’t be here but DH and I haven’t had any support really - everything we have got for her or is we have paid for and paid through the nose for it, it wasn’t cheap and even private counselling we have huge long waits and the cost is huge but we did. I’ve read every book I can pretty much - as accessing resources when she was younger we were fobbed everywhere. Of course when you child is perfect or beyond perfect behaviour at school and straight A* there isn’t a problem for them. At all. Autism she masks all day I mask all day - and meltdowns occur.

on a different note we aren’t doing our usual birthday thing. I’ve had some cards and wonderful messages and I’m about to eat a nice meal is relative peace and quiet so happy birthday me!

I do not think calling the police would have been the right move at that moment for the hard punch in the face she might have had a criminal record and that would have ruined her life for what she wants to do. I don’t know. She was mortified after and the school were aware and she was spoken to at her school by deputy head etc she self harms as well -

oh god it’s a mess. I can’t reply anymore

Exactly but trying to get this for her was so hard I tried too but what does that translate to ? Secondary school didn’t really care about that ask her in school are you happy? Yes.

I remember crying to the GP who said she needs social help and saying I know but from where ? How do I get it? also very different for her masking / she has the eye contact smiles etc

Happy birthday, please enjoy your day to the fullest and enjoy the calm

You did what was right in the moment for her, you as a family did that and she is by any measures a very successful person in her own right for her age.
She just needs more help understanding her own brain and how it works and I feel the saying, if you have met one person with Autism , you have met one person with autism was never more apt than for your daughter.
Navigating NT people who don’t get that every one is different, and the ones who just don’t get it like the student acquaintance you mention are just mindless. They don’t mean to be, but they are.

I have experience in this area from my work and from what you have said you have done a totally wonderful and fantastic job to get her to where she is. Now you need to concentrate on YOU while she matures and her brain catches up with her chronological age.

Very low contact,
Very short sentences
Grey rock
Tell her you love her, but need space too for now.

And again, you have launched a very bright girl to Uni, and she is coping with the academic work. That’s a HUGE achievement for her and for you as her parents

the social stuff can come next.

Happy birthday

@YAdaughter

Please remember one thing, and this is important

Mumsnet has a proportion of people who post who are trying to tear it down.

There are a number of motivations for trying to destroy Mumsnet:

1. Male misogynists. There are forums where men post how they are aggressive and undermine women who post here, because they hold a grudge.

2. There are, I'm afraid, troll farms (Russian but also others) who are trying to sow discord and tear apart strong supportive environments

3. Some people are very maladjusted and enjoy hurting others when they are struggling. Not easy to face, easier to disbelieve, but unfortunately true.

When someone comes out with a post that is cruelly unkind or vicious, please remember that this is a public forum and not everyone is motivated by goodwill. Most all, but there are exceptions.

Please number the overwhelmingly supportive posts and posters on this thread. Some have not always agreed with you, sometimes robustly, but they have also explained their reasoning in an understandable way. In fact, one way or another almost everyone has been supportive.

In summary: read the helpful posts (even where it's tough-love) and remember that a small minority of posters are people who get their kicks from being destructive. Take the helpful posts, dismiss the rest.

You need to take care of yourself for yourself and also so that you can care for DD when you have recovered from your present burnout. And don’t blame yourself. It is next to impossible to get social and emotional support for even an academically average child who is ‘fine’ at school. And even if you get it there is no guarantee of success. After DS’s tribunal won specialist school placement broke down we had to get support from SOS!SEN to start the process for judicial review before he got home tutors, OT, SALT and counselling on a weekly basis. We even had weekly home visits from youth mental health workers. Then Covid restrictions ended it all and by the time they were lifted he refused to engage, rejected his diagnosis etc. he’s now 25 and essentially housebound with no support. It is hard to say the least.

👆🏼Let this post stand as the perfect example of someone who is blinkered.
Never though I’d ever read such a sad post, devoid of any sort of intellectual curiosity, or empathy.

I’ll be very honest. I’ve had a shit day compounded by not feeling great.

I did mute her after sending her the message but I can see (but I’ve not opened) a WA message from her it says ‘Happy birthday’

DH has had some exchanges with her he wanted a photo and video that she posted on line about 6 months ago and she has blocked us both from that instagram account and he asked her for it. She replied giving him the photos and asking if he was going to use it to paint a picture which he is. They had a few exchanges and he asked if she wanted a video call and she said she was busy today but happy to speak but only to her sister provided both me and her father are not involved in the call. We asked her sister and she is pleased and excited and wants to talk to her. So she has arranged it direct with her for tomorrow. I’ll be really honest I’m very low and hurt and crying. I told DH I wanted to go home and feel like a complete failure and a useless parent and I’ve spiralled down currently crying upstairs I don’t think there is a recovery from this. As DH says he understands why I said it but I told her I hated her of course she is rejected and doesn’t want to play happy families but he doesn’t know how it could of been avoided as it was relentless - one of us me or her had to leave. He feels like he has failed too. I don’t know the answer.

I’ve told DH that I can see her rebuilding with DH and DD but not me. I don’t know if our marriage as strong as it is will survive that. He goes to her graduation and I don’t etc he sees her kids and I don’t. Etc

Very gently, because I know you are feeling fragile but you are catastrophising. Things are already better than when you started this thread but shes asked for space and time and you need to give her that.

Well said I agree with you completely and @YAdaughter I completely agree with the approach you tried, it has hit its limit and it is time to try another one but you have adapted very quickly to that too. Well done.

That is just your RSD kicking in. It will pass and you will dust yourself off. It is a very painful time for you.

You're not a robot, and she needs to see you as a real person who is worthy of respect, not just a Mum Bot who endless takes all of her abuse, without any impact.

I think this is one of life's situations where those who haven't experienced neurodivergent teens with demand avoidance have no idea of the relentlessness, of the never ending compassion and walking on egg shells we do, and as spectators they just swan in, proclaim all your faults and imagine they'd do better.

Also, it does these teens no good to see us as people they can abuse. Yes we will happily and lovingly help them in their darkest times, but not as emotional or literal punch bags. That is not helping them, it's setting them up for failure when the rest of the world (rightly) won't also put up with this abusive behaviour l

Darling, you are very human and it’s okay. In that moment you DID hate her behaviour. You hate how it makes you feel and you hate being treated like this. All logical. You can love your daughter and not like her. I don’t think for one minute that you want bad things to happen to her, but you want to save yourself from an abusive relationship.

This so reminds me of someone in my family. I agree with the pps who said don't send huge msgs or get into a back and forth about past events. She won't concede and perhaps believes her own version so it's just pointless and creating more drama. Keep it factual and short. You could be in a better place with her in a few months as she may grow up a bit, some independence is a good thing for her so I wouldn't say it's hopeless. Don't tolerate abuse but keep the door open I'd say.

We are home and we have a plan.

We are not packing up or delivering her stuff she has to sort it and she will need contact for this. All contact with DH. We won’t be providing boxes, cars or anything. She has to sort it all. She wants to adult we can model polite, respectful behaviour and expect it in return if we don’t get it- conversation ends. We will be fairly accommodating eg she wants to come Tuesday morning fine but we will have time limits as we are going out at 2 pm she wants to bring 2 people fine who are they and we need ground rules eg polite and respectful when here don’t leave the front door open etc I’m much calmer.

DH and I will spend the next week regrouping and other DD is away with a friend meaning a super calm home

It’s a great plan.
treat her like a stranger and ignore all the jibes she will doubtless throw at you.
keep short and factual and keep saying thank you for clearing the room and taking your belongings.

Hope it is going well today and she is in adult mode .

Well we’ve had contact. DH got a message at 8am yesterday we were driving and another one at 10 am (still driving) as drove other daughter to drop her off and then back. He went swimming (booked) and I went into work. Because she didn’t have a reply for 2 hours she started messaging me.

My phone messages …. Haven’t read it as it’s on mute. Basically starts I have messaged you twice as Dad hasn’t replied.

I didn’t read it.

She has said ….

I need to pick up my stuff and want to do it in one day thus you will need to be all day so I can come and go as I please.

Then 2 hours later fine you aren’t replying you say not to message Mum so I’m gonna have to message her as you haven’t replied.

We didn’t reply as we wanted to talk it over last night as she said she was too busy the next couple of days and all weekend.

When still no reply (midday) she wrote ? wtf
I got same messages.

We haven’t heard from her for a week and even then she refused to talk to me or us. She only spoke on zoom to her sister who had to cut her off after an hour and said she was just ‘talking at me about her stuff and not asking me about anything related to me’

I am assuming here but I think she thinks we are going to pack it all up and we aren’t. Neither are we supplying or sourcing boxes, tape, bubble wrap etc. We are also not sitting silently outside under her command.

We’ve given her some possible times but she has to confirm logistics etc with us etc She can have her stuff (packed floor to ceiling) loft garage summer house - where the hell she is going to put it all I don’t know - but my husband says not our problem but great for us to declutter it

Well she’s kicked off to our fairly neutral text agreeing to do two mornings next week asking for some logistics. Amongst many rants (multiple long messages) she is saying she wants her stuff and hasn’t been able to get it for 2 months as we have been away (we were away two weeks) and also screaming via text she is ND and can’t drive and needs to hire a van etc and we don’t need to know who is helping her as they will just come in and out and we can stay totally out of the way and silent and we do not speak or look at anyone. She has sent about 5 messages to DH including one saying I’m autistic you need to do what works for me. That’s her being autistic not me.

Given she said she wasn’t available today and ‘busy all day’ she’s clearly got a great deal of time to rant.

Another message said - I’m sitting here waiting for your message and do not have time for your pathetic discussions I’m frustrated and I know I have lots of stuff and you are not allow to be knowing where I’m living as I forbid it. Text me back. Now. Give me a day - now.

…. we hadn’t even asked where she is our text was just x and y morning only works for us not a whole day we suggest one morning pack and other morning move.

This is a woman albeit a Young adult who ignores our messages for days and then rings at 2 am and demands something or to be picked up from hall as she hadn’t eaten.

The time of silence, holiday and healing has made me see exactly how abusive and manipulative she is.

So we are sitting on a reply and not knee jerking to her tune. She can come, bring boxes and we will suggest she starts in the summer house and garage first and boxes up all her crap and sorts it.

I’m sorry this isn’t going more smoothly. I think the grey rock approach of not reacting while staying firm is great. I imagine after she gets her stuff you won’t hear from her for a while. Which is maybe no bad thing.