Estranged from my autistic university daughter after years of conflict

[YAdaughter]

YA daughter is 20 and at university.

She is autistic as am I. I would say the relationship hasn’t been good for about 5 years.
She was highly controlling of home life. What channel we could watch, and it steadily got worse as teenage years kicked in.

We tried to put in boundaries and basic rules and it just got really bad. Most of the really nasty stuff was directed towards me and not her Dad - he’s a quiet gentle giant.

She would call me a Karen, Terf, even a Tory (I voted labour) and any insult she could think of - I’ve been called mental, controlling, bitch and I’ve even been punched. She was failing at university socially (not academically) and no self care so GP recommended she move back home. It was vile.

Daily insults. No basic rules following. She literally used to say ‘what you looking at bitch? ‘ if I came downstairs in my own home. I’m a Headteacher in my day to day job. I hope I’m a good one and kind and empathetic. She would tell me I was stupid on a daily basis and to chill.

She would leave used sanitary towels left on the floor in the bathroom etc and she just treated us like an ATM. She went out late (3 am) and then phoned as she was on the street in city centre at night etc it wasn’t just what she said it me but how she said it and I kicked her out the following day and offered to book a hotel or something but that I couldn’t do it anymore - I had high blood pressure, panic attacks, and I was very ill. She agreed to leave and go to a friend but wouldn’t tell us which one. And this was a month ago. She said she is safe and won’t tell us where. She says at the moment we haven’t supported her and that we need to understand she wants space and if she wants money or a relationship she will phone. We did contact wellbeing and she had lied as she had said they were supporting her but the university had no record on her.

I lurch from loving her and missing her one minute to wanting to scream at her and hate her the next.

I’m having counselling but it’s not helping. She wanted a huge holiday and back in September we agreed and are due to go on a once in a lifetime safari next week. (She has a younger sister). She has emailed us to say she is 100% not coming as she needs to heal. I’m furious, sad, angry but I’m also glad she isn’t coming and I feel conflicted by that. She won’t talk to my lovely DH or respond to her sibling or grandmother etc DH says I need to focus on me and we need to focus on each other and our family. I’m so angry about the holiday we booked it for her mental health as it was the one she wanted. I feel so angry I’m such a shit mum and I failed to raise a nice person - it’s all on me isn’t it? I tried over the years to get support, diagnosis etc and no one really helped us as she was so clever and masked so heavily out of the home

Oh Hi @EllaVanerve Aplogies.

Its a tough one I guess it depends on the relationship and the words.

So in the instance of my mother - they were repeated words that added to the evidence I had already built/seen regarding a lifetime of the relationship. What could have changed things.. i offered couples counselling, at the time so we had an impartial person because for everytime I began to explain my mother chose not to listen or to put it back on her "I must be a bad mother" "Everyone struggles and gets on with it" - I had clicinal depression suicidal ideation undiagnosed autosm/adhd/pmdd I was speaking to samaritans several times a week. I just needed to be heard and believed.

When i left it continued to be on her terms. She still sends me emails saying happy birthday and signs it as we should catch up. But there's a lot of unsaid and its almost as if shes dismissing that we haven't spoken for 5 years. Things need to be said/things need to be let to breathe anf exist we cant just sit and have a coffee.

With my aunt a safe space. Its often due to misunderstanding during a time of burnout /pmdd/depression and its my own fault - or actually its an issue we havent resolved or spoken about properly- i will ghost and she will stay open to communication and hecause she knows and helps reminds me that its not me but my brain thats struggling its easier to reconnect also because she hasnt shamed me for my autism/depression/suicide attempt.

I also know that when I ghost her, I hurt her. I’ve had to work hard to explain that to her — not to justify my behaviour, but to help her understand what is happening for me — and I’ve made conscious attempts to change that pattern.

I’m also myself with her about 90% of the time. So she knows me. She has enough experience of me to understand what is simply me, what might be my autism, and what is me struggling or reaching the point where I don't have the capacity to communicate properly.

It means there is enough safety and shared understanding for us to be able to say, “Okay, this happened. This hurt. Let's understand what happened and work out how we do it differently next time.” and there are changes on my side because I work hard to show that this behaviour/effect is unwarranted behaviour and I want to change / i want to make amends for my behaviour.

I think that's probably the biggest difference for me. Repair isn't pretending nothing happened. It's being able to hold both things at once: I hurt you, and there was a reason I behaved that way. The reason doesn't erase the impact, and the impact doesn't mean I'm a bad person.

And because she hasn't shamed me for being autistic, depressed or having attempted suicide, I don't have to hide the difficult parts of myself from her. She can see the difference between who I am and what my brain is doing when I'm struggling.

So when I reconnect, I'm not having to rebuild the entire relationship from scratch. We're repairing something within an existing safe relationship.

I think that's why I would say yes, you can come back from words that have been stored. But sometimes the repair isn't about convincing someone to forget what was said. It's about creating enough safety, acknowledgement and consistent new evidence that their understanding of what happened can change.

If the words were part of a much bigger pattern, you probably have to address the pattern too. If they happened within an otherwise safe relationship, there may be much more room for repair

I think I wouldn’t bother texting anything about how you are doing much better etc…

She doesn’t like you. She doesn’t want to know that you are doing well or whatever or that such and such is what you need blah blah. She wants you stressed and struggling.

Its also best never to overshare with an abuser regarding what you want and your feeling as they will only be used to hurt you.

Practice the grey rock technique with her in future. And make sure the rest of the family does the same. Don’t give her amo to hurt you with and don’t wave a red flag (your peace) at a bull.

@Sodthesystem I agree, it's giving her ammunition to tear the OP down, She won't be pleased that @YAdaughter is having a lovely holiday.

Disengage.

I’m feeling a bit sea sick today to be honest travel has been stressful and some stress from work (nothing I can’t handle and more time consuming but needs to be thought through and relevant decisions made, immediate action has been done, but I will have to go into work in 10 days for a meeting and get some paperwork done in the meanwhile so going to be a tight turn around to get paperwork pulled together ready for Monday or Tuesday when we are back Sunday night (a week Sunday). I can’t delegate it at the moment so I have to do it.

I had a massive cry to DH and was wondering if and why she hates just me. Her last text said I’m not allowed to text her until my birthday and I’m struggling.

DH has drafted a message talking about the impact on him but he is sitting on it.

My draft sits at this

You said you wouldn’t read any messages until Xxx, but that is my birthday and triggering for me, so I am sending this before the next stage of our journey for clarity and before my birthday. Pointing out your lies or twisting of the narrative is not harassment; it is fact. You yourself are have personal experience that ghosting people can be highly damaging (and ruin relationships permanently) and is not mature adult behaviour. Space can be healing, but silence can also be weaponised. Furthermore, you do not control me. The use of public spaces like our local supermarket is not up for negotiation. We will all continue to use them as ordinary customers, and your previous demands regarding this were highly unreasonable. Our trip to X was incredible and we made many happy family memories, but I am now putting up boundaries for myself too. Any future messages sent directly to me will be unread. All future logistics or requests must go through Dad only. We will respond under our own timescale after careful consideration. If you want to review contact or communication with any of us in the future, that will only be considered if your accountability and positive communication from you can be maintained. My apology was genuine and heartfelt and if we can rebuild our relationship in a positive way in the future I am open to that but it can not be one way. Do not reply to this message. In an emergency only, you may contact Dad directly - thank you.

I appreciate all the advice about keep it short etc and I’m sitting on this and NOT sending it but this is how I feel.

it helps me to write it down. I feel physically sick right now so I might have to rest for 24 hours.

I do appreciate all the advice but I’m physically quite sick and low at the moment. You won’t know that the family group chat has gone quiet. It was last used on Tuesday and as she isn’t in the new one and hasn’t been blocked she won’t be aware I don’t think.

*I appreciate all the advice about keep it short etc and I’m sitting on this and NOT sending it but this is how I feel.
it helps me to write it down. *

@YAdaughter Yes, writing it down is often therapeutic as you can release your feelings. Sending it to your DD is a different matter though.

In your shoes, I'd continue writing down your responses and thoughts, but don't actually send them. Let your DH handle all communication with her.
Hope you feel better, get plenty of rest.

Yes I was going to say before you got to it that it’s good you are writing this down for yourself. But best you don’t send it. Honestly op if she’s out of your life, she’s out. I know it’s hard not to yo-yo becuase she’s your kid but, she’s not a good person and she means you harm.

Her feelings towards you are not your fault. Cruel people will always find reasons and excuses to behave cruelly to others. It’s how they feed. She gets a buzz from hurting you and she also needs to be the victim in her own mind so you will always be the bad guy. Until she meets some other poor bugger and they get too close to her at least.

You can’t fix that. All you can do is protect yourself as best as you can but giving her as little as possible.

I’m sorry you’re going through this, I’ve read the whole thread and the more you post about her the more convinced I am that she’s got personality disorder (I highly suspect narcissistic personality disorder) alongside autism, and that is the cause of most of her behaviours towards you and her sister. Unfortunately, I have personal experience of this with my MIL and with someone who was once a very a close friend.

My advice would be if you strongly suspect NPD to enforce strict boundaries and do not give her the attention and conflict that she is craving. I would keep messages very short, do not try to get her to see what she’s done wrong or how badly she’s treated you, she will never genuinely take it on board and change, any apologies she gives are very likely to be insincere (as you’ve seen regarding your other DD’s birthday) and just manipulation to get what she wants.

If you want to continue some kind of a relationship, you need to have zero tolerance for abuse. The second she starts being abusive you end the conversation and walk away. At first this will make her behaviour worse as she’s looking for a reaction, but over time she may accept you’re no longer someone who will provide that and she will eventually give up trying to provoke you.

We have had to do this with my MIL (my wife isnt ready to go NC yet) and over time we now have a mostly civil and even friendly relationship with her, although when triggered she does lash out again and go back to old habits (which is when we end the conversation and contact for a while).

The rewriting of events sounds quite narcissistic. I know people say that’s the fashionable buzz word diagnosis atm and I’m certainly not diagnosing her. But if she is then it’s possible she may genuinely believe her version of events.

Also if she is narcissistic she’s unlikely to apologise. My mum was a total narcissist and myself and my brother called her out on one particular awful event. She flounced. We said if she was prepared to apologise we’d be open to rebuilding our relationship. We didn’t hear from her again apart from the odd toxic letter.

shes dead now and sent me a letter via her solicitor after she’d died. Told me what an awful selfish person I was and how I went NC because I couldn’t be bothered with an old lady.

I think she probably believed that.

Oh it’s ridiculous I’m not feeling well and DH suggested I listen to my calm play list on Spotify - we have a family Spotify she set up with her email address and we pay her annually for it upfront and she’s ….. changed the password so no one else can log on to it and all our play lists have gone 😡 but also 😂 ffs

I haven’t blocked her on anything.

Bloody hell. It’s horrible. My parents aren’t great and my counsellor keeps saying she isn’t your father (he wasn’t nice) but it’s hard. To hit you from literally beyond the grave is awful.

Don’t give her the satisfaction of reacting about the Spotify. Obviously stop paying for it moving forward though.

On a purely practical note: it sounds like she would genuinely struggle to remove all her stuff from your house in one go, if it's several car loads (does she even have a car?)

Would it be worth hiring a large van- maybe even with a driver- and dropping everything off to her?

This, and also change the set up on anything else you pay for that she uses, so that next time payment is needed it won't renew automatically. Bit by bit she will realise how handy it was having supportive parents.

She really sounds very very nasty

I think you should named that message.

Sorry that should
say send

When there was a post about a 17 year old boy (I think they said he'd experienced trauma and had AuDHD) hitting his mum/step mum, nearly every one said she should go to the police. I wonder why the double standard?
A girl/young woman can be just as strong as a17 year old boy, and I do worry about your safety, OP. I'm so sorry and hope you're ok.

We don’t know where she is living. We have done one car to a friends parents garage as she asked them if she could store stuff but to be honest it’s not that big (the garage) and she was fuming about it saying it was clothes she didn’t need. Well there is 4 more car loads to go….. She has also turned up and collected a car load randomly a few weeks ago without notice. To be honest I think she wants to adult so she can - adult sort out her own lifts etc we can’t drop them off if we don’t know she is and if we did drop them at a friends house what then. She wasn’t even there when we dropped off the last load and those parents said they hadn’t seen her at all and she had just said can I store some stuff in your annex and they said yes. I don’t think she’s even looked at it. I don’t know what the heck is going on. And no don’t worry no reaction to Spotify but I’m not removing her from health insurance, Amazon prime or anything - I’m not that petty.

She hasn’t passed her test for her car yet and it’s currently on the drive and she’s refused to insurance or, register it or tax it - so we’ve done it all in our names. She did sent a message saying she didn’t want it (the car). But we couldn’t force her to put it in her name etc so my husband’s has done it in his name.

Our house sitter relative has also said there are numerous medical letters for her there - looking at where they are from (nhs and private assessment company) - they have not been opened - they are all about her ADHD assessment which the GP fast tracked for her - no doubt she isn’t replying to their texts or emails about the assessments. He hasn’t opened the post but the GP was trying to message and left voice mails saying he was fast tracking her. We don’t have an address for her 😡

argh I don’t have the mental energy for this

I’m going to be blunt. Firstly, you need to remove her from everything and cut her loose. She needs to learn to actually appreciate things. Secondly, while writing all of this down is therapeutic, she’s not going to read it. There are too many words and she doesn’t care about how you feel. You need to set your boundaries in point form and make it very clear that it’s up to her from now on, ie. Also, don’t tell her HOW she needs to sort herself out, just do it.

*Your demands regarding our movements are unreasonable and controlling. We are not changing how we use public spaces and services.

*You will need to sort your own Amazon, Netflix, Insurance.etc

*All mail (including all the medical letters here) forwarded to university. You need to set up redirection.

Car is being sold. (Don’t even mention the proceeds. They are nothing to do with her.)

*We will no longer entertain any weaponised or re-written versions of your history. We all know the truth.

*Do not contact me again unless there is a medical emergency.

*Your father is willing to be a point of contact as long as you are reasonable and respectful.

*Understand that your lies and cruelty have resulted in you pushing away your greatest support and strongest advocate.

*I absolutely love you my daughter, but I do not like or respect your behaviour. I hope you seek help for your problems, but I am neither the cause nor the answer.

What @Francesteinhas just posted is way easier to read and understand.
It is also much harder to manipulate and refute, as there is nothing to argue about
I do think people recommending short, to the point and not about your emotions and feelings are on to something.

And please stop feeling any guilt or worry, your daughter is an adult and is also abusive. No one should feel guilty for cutting out people who abuse us, whoever they are and however they are related to us.

I think the constant long messages are not helping. She is clearly a narcissist and doesn’t care how you feel. Just sell the car, pay her the minimum amount for her uni and cancel access to all other things you pay for. Tell her if there is any further harassment or abuse that money will stop. Up to now there have been no consequences to her behaviour and she has become an expert manipulator. It seems like you have been overly generous as a way of trying to appease her and that has not helped.

@Francestein 's text is clear, to the point and good.

The only thing I'd recommend is not putting in this: *Understand that your lies and cruelty have resulted in you pushing away your greatest support and strongest advocate.

Because those words, especially cruelty, are emotive (it's accurate, but emotive).

Something like :

"While you behave towards your family without respect or courtesy that she is due as another living human being, we cannot provide the level of support and advocacy that we want to".

It is clear, factual and fair.

OP while I think it's great that you and DH have "found your anger" and are putting boundaries down and not taking any more shit ... I'd also try and deal with it a bit calmly if you can and not go nuclear right now.

Your DD has found somewhere to live - that's BRILLIANT actually, as so many families with a difficult young autistic adult are completely stuck with them at home as they just can't cope with a job, education or living with others. You don't want to jeopardise this and end up with her back home feeling (even more) like an angry failure. That's no good for any of you! I'd actually find a way (e.g. via DH) to tell her you're proud of her for managing this.

I think I'd be tempted to ignore her stored stuff in your house for now. Just leave it where it is and let the dust settle. You said she claimed a couple of batches of her own accord. Maybe put a calendar note for 6 months time to re-evaluate. Again you don't want to jeopardise her current living arrangement.

I also wouldn't send huge emotional messages as she won't take them on board right now. It's as futile as trying to argue/reason with a tantrumming toddler. Let DH deal with her. "We love you and we're really pleased you've found somewhere to live." Suggest he ignores any horrible messages or gives a bland "recollections may vary" type response ... and that he definitely doesn't repeat them to you.

Basically just give her some space to be independent ... and take a bit of time to enjoy YOUR space and peace for you, DH and younger DD. And enjoy your holiday. None of the practicalities need sorting right now while you're away.

That's just my suggestion anyway. Easy to say when I'm not living it of course.