There We Are Then - part 2

[mummy917]

Follow on from previous

Perfect! Keep it all in writing OP.🌸

You’re doing amazing OP such a great mum. Keep ALL communication with the arsehole to text only, your only hurting yourself by speaking to him as he is never going to see or understand how wonderful you are because he is a bully and this is ALL he is and nothing more. Keep being you and you will be the better/thriving parent in the long run. His mask will eventually slip with others including the children who will not want him in their lives (any Man who treats someone’s mother badly comes a cropper with the children eventually). I am so rooting for you as are all the women here. Take care of you in the meantime sending a mummy hug 🤗

Actually the way to look at this is that he has now set a precedent that he wants to take the children even when sick so in future if they are sick on his days he can’t expect you to miss work to care for them .

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/parenting/5554230-does-5050-actually-mess-kids-up?reply=153585978

This thread really made me think, particularly about what’s best for the children versus what’s best for the parents. I am 100% Team OP, but when they are small and unwell, I am not convinced about strict schedules

Edited to say just spotted your update on this point OP and think you did the right thing by contacting his mum directly.

But I think each interaction is a judgement call at this stage until things settle down.

How typical of him to argue that you shouldn't have them, when its his mum doing the childcare not him. Basically he can posture about what he would do if things were different as much as he likes, when its not really happening.
He just saw an opportunity to make an unfair judgement to make you feel bad. What an idiot.,

And if Granny goes down with the bug tomorrow he might need to take time off work himself to look after all of them.

Can you set up a call divert for his number so that he’s forced to message you instead? That way you can have everything in writing or recorded and you have evidence of his bullying.

I genuinely think he called you controlling so much you may have believed it at times but he sounds very controlling.
One day when you are in a healthy relationship and see the difference, you will be so glad this happened. Right now its a hard adjustment period but it will get better and I really do believe you are so much better out of this.

I think now its just finding how to navigate it all and you will get there. As long as you are doing what is best for the kids you cant go wrong and every step of the way, that is what you have done.

I really think this is such good advice. I would add to it that you would like to keep future contact in writing too as you feel things have the ability to get too emotional over the phone, even try and spin it as a benefit to him, but ensure all contact is now in writing.

@mummy917

Pay him no mind. It's easy enough for him to say he'd cancel whatever plans for a sick child, because he knows he'd never have to. His mum will always pick up his slack.

But bottom line, don't tell him any of your plans. He's always looking for a reason to pick holes in your coat so don't give him that reason. We're so used to 'being required' to answer their questions that it's another one of those automatic things that's going to take time and practice to stop.

DDs will be fine with Grandma. Relax, you're doing nothing wrong and they'll come to no harm. If it were your mum and DDs were ill chances are you'd not be worried if she was watching them. My mum had to watch both my boys (separate times) when they had chicken pox and it didn't affect them negatively nor were they upset that it wasn't me watching them. DDs know that Grandma loves them, that's the key thing to remember.

I can’t tell from your posts if he wanted you to keep the girls or not? It seems that he wasn’t bothered because he wasn’t going to be looking after them, but just wanted you to feel bad?

I agree that you need to get something in writing:
’Please let me know how the girls are when you get back from work. As I said this morning, I would have been happy to cancel my plans & keep them with me as you weren’t able to take time off work. I hope they weren’t too much for MIL. Please can you remember to replace the Calpol & Ibruprofen I left with you, I find it easier to have it to hand in case it’s needed. You might also want to stock up for yourself.’

I don’t think she does need to message, or rather just message to see how the girls are. She has already mentioned medication, it’s coming across as micro managing by mentioning again. He may be a giant twat but he needs to find his way.

It's common in families that mums take over because they know what the child needs but if the dad is never given sole responsibility he doesn't get the same opportunity to learn what the child needs for himself.

It's trial and error for all of us and I think he'll get there if you just leave him to it OP. He's relying heavily on his mum at the moment but that may lessen as he adjusts or his mum starts to withdraw.

Let him find his own way. It won't be your way but the dc will be fine and hopefully they will have a better relationship with him as they grow up because he will be more involved in their day to day care and lives, rather than leaving it all to you.

This could be positive for everyone.

It is definitely trial and error and I do think there was an element of him knowing it wouldn’t be him looking after them today or tomorrow but he could still take the opportunity to make me out to be in the wrong.

I’m not sure what it was about this morning but after I’d spoken to him on the phone and cried (no surprise there!), I really sat and thought to myself how nasty he really was to me and I couldn’t understand why as it was unnecessary. I have never been able to express how I feel because he just shouts over me and it made me realise for definite, that phone calls need to come to an end and everything needs to be in a message.

If you must send this leave off that last sentence OP, it's too managing. He doesn't need to be told, he just needs to do it without prompts, ie take the mental load of it himself.

Hi op of course you feel guilty it’s what we do when kids are sick but if today had been a work day and twattoo had them would you miss work? You are always going to feel guilty it’s our default. I would say he has stepped up today to parent so let him and I’m sure if anything happens he or his mum would call you he can’t be that inconsiderate. It’s going to be a hard slog letting go but you have agreed to 50/50 and the days so he really should take his responsibility seriously especially in these situations it will happen many times over the years. It’s a learning curve. it’s not like you rang him and said can you have the kids because I’m seeing my friend and the kids are sick. You offered he said no then let him get on with it. Op you don’t have to beat yourself up because you wanted to keep your sick kids at home. It’s a mother’s instinct also he is the controlling one shouting over you I hope you won’t miss his attitude. Clearly disrespectful.

It’s worth putting that in a message too. -

Keep communication to text messages, please. I’m will not put up with you shouting at me on the phone.

Agree re keeping all communication to written form, but if he does ask you at handover, what plans you have, try to bounce it back with 'why do you ask?' Or even 'I'd prefer to limit conversation to the children's needs'. Cone up with some stock phrases that you feel comfortable with, that you can roll out as necessary, so you don't get caught out and end up justifying what you do with your time.
He really has no right to know. It's difficult but you will be better off if you can learn to shut down any intrusiveness into your life because he will just use any info he gleans, against you.

I was thinking that he definitely does automatically put you in the wrong for no reason. It was a simple task to just discuss what needed to be done when a child was sick,
But he turned your request that he give them calpol etc... round back on you moaning that if you'd needed Capol he'd have given it to you without complaint.... Even though you weren't complaining! And no he wouldn't have given it to you because he had'nt bloody bought it when he said he would.

Gaslighting masterclass.

And then the whole thing about

• if he knew they were sick and he was off that day HE would have cancelled his plans immediately.
• But you had ALREADY said you were happy to cancel..
• Then he because he sensed that you were offering to her your DD, he started saying that you couldn't have them, it was his day, his mum would have them etc.

It defies logic, but he is absolutely skilled at turning it back on you, by swearing up is down, when its already been demonstrated that it isn't.

What he has done is turn a little small crisis, a temporary ill child, into a massive drama... and ends up shouting at you.. Why ? because you were trying to make sure your child was well looked after, with the correct provisions and because you didn't want her to be unhappy that her mum wasn't there.

This is HIS unreasonablness.. and HIS problem.
It's coming across loud and clear with every interaction you describe
And you will look back on this and realise that you are so much better off without him.

I was thinking one option when he starts shouting is to say. "I will not be shouted at" And put the phone down or close the door.
And then continue the points you wanted to make in text having first said. I will not be shouted at. I will only engage in civil conversation. I was attempting to tell you that a. b. c. Factual and without any emotive phrases.

But maybe others can suggest some other options.

I hope your little DD is feeling better soon and that you are feeling happier this afternoon and keeping busy. x

I think now you're away from him you'll start to realise just how much you were over compensating to keep the peace. Often we don't truly see how bad things were until we are out of it.

He is emotionally immature and can't discuss issues like a proper adult. He's also a bully. You're doing a fantastic job OP, never forget that.

I agree @Aiming4Optimistic

How about
The mysterious - "My plans are my own."
The spy movie stance - "That's on a need to know basis." Merry laugh..
The purely annoying - "Its funny how often people keep asking me that" roll eyes and then change the subject.
The slightly unhinged - An extra long increasingly uncomfortable pause, whilst you wait for him to realise that you are not going to answer that question.
The Joe Dolce - "As if I'd tell YOU!" (Shut uppa yer face)

Anyone else really hoping he gets a galloping case of Noro?!

I think all of us are desperately hoping he catches it, whilst OP remains breezily symptom free.

Yeah the "why do you ask?" is a good one. Usually comes back with "Oh I was just curious", you say "oh ok.....here is your bag darling, have you got your teddy?" as if he hadnt said anything.

It will drive him mad that he doesnt know.

Had to employ this with my ex. Cheat, liar and secretive about his life, but he was so desperate to know what I was up to! He stopped asking eventually as he realised I would never tell him.