There We Are Then - part 2

[mummy917]

Follow on from previous

You don't sound pathetic to me OP - it's understandable that you feel emotional at the moment. You've been on long term sick for stress and had to navigate your ex wanting to divorce on top of that, as well, as being apart from your DCs for days at a time. You honestly are amazing. It's okay to cry. It's okay to try and do what you think is best - this is all new and raw for you ❤️

Sadly it's not up to you what happens in his time so I would say going forward just don't say anything. If he can't manage and needs to send them back to you it needs to come purely from him. Try to learn to grey rock him even when your heart is crying out to do something different.

The last word I would use to describe you is ‘pathetic’ OP - you are truly awesome! The only person who can’t see that is Twattoo and he never will, as it would mean him confronting how un-awesome and frankly ridiculous he is for losing you. Cry, see your friend, heal. The kids will be fine. Texts only from now on if you possibly can. Literally, don’t pick up if he calls you, wear headphones at changeover. 🌻

It's just really hard, it goes against all your instincts to let them go when they are ill.

But I think it's good that he said he would take them anyway, he's sticking to the 50/50 and in time you'll come to terms with it even though it does seem ridiculously unfair now seeing as he blew up the relationship. It's beyond hard to accept that.

I think, in the nicest way, it's also good that the children were unwell so soon into the arrangement with his mum - it's easy to think you can look after children when they are well, and the weathers good etc. Whole different ball game when they are ill, and you already suspect it won't work with her long term, so it might be good if that comes to a head sooner rather than later.

Step back, text only, this is just another "first" you have to navigate, next time will be easier. Hugs x

Was his Mum sympathetic when you spoke to her? I really hope she was and just maybe this will get her more on your side. I’m so sorry this has lead to another stressful experience for you. It’s the last thing you need.

I know this sounds a bit left field but do you think he’d agree to go to couples counselling? Not as a way to reconciliation, but as a way to navigate the breakup and establishing how co-parenting is going to look. He seems to have a lot of anger towards you (unjustifiably) and having a 3rd party present may help both of you when trying to sort out how things are going to be going forward.

It was so hard to go against everything instinctively my mind was telling me. I don’t think I’ll ever forget it.

His mum was absolutely lovely and even said I should go and enjoy my coffee as a sickness bug isn’t life threatening. She said she would keep me updated and said I could pop in after I’d been out if I wanted to, if I thought it would put my mind at ease. I’m not sure what to do. I want to but don’t want to confuse the kids and I don’t fancy getting anymore grief from my ex if I’ve popped in to see how they are.

I don’t think he would agree to any kind of counselling to resolve any issues and to find a way to coparent more amicably. He’s okay in front of the kids, but can be really unkind when speaking to me one on one.

@mummy917 No you shouldn't have stood your ground more. The children will be fine. It's very, very hard, but you need to let go and let him parent his children. Once things have settled down into a routine for you both, might be the time to discuss what you do going forward, when the kids are unwell, but right now, you should go for a coffee and you have no reason to feel guilty

Sending UNMumsnetty hugs

Presumably his mum can see both sides, and that was decent of her to offer the visit. It might unsettle them if you visit though as they'd obviously prefer to be with mum than nan when sick, but would be fine not given the choice if you see what I mean.

I wouldn't bother with counselling together, you can't change him, maybe some solo sessions for yourself would give you chance to let it all out and find some peace, which would help you deal with him going forward.

Personally I’d probably pop in and see them. His Mum offered, it wasn’t your suggestion. I also think it shows her how much the kids mean to you and also how much this is affecting you too. I’m glad she was kind to you.

I realise he’s incredibly unkind to you, but that’s why having a 3rd party there might help. I realise he might not agree, however if there is even a slight chance he’d agree I think it would be worth asking. Maybe just explain that this is new to all of you, that you want things to be amicable but emotions are high at the moment and maybe having some outside help will hope both of you communicate better and cut down on misunderstandings.

OP, he’s getting rattled, hence being confrontational. He knows you’re on the mark, regardless of the nonsense he comes back with. Arsehole.

You sound amazing to me! I think whatever you had done he would find it a problem. I don’t think he knows how to deal with anything ‘hard’ and by that I mean anything that impinges on his freedom to do what he likes, when he wants and with little regard for others. He basically doesn’t know how to put anyone above himself. Throughout all of this it is clear as day that whatever hurt you may feel, you have put that to one side and the best interests of your children have been front and centre of everything. It’s a shame that his approach is that his ego is what drives everything.

The difficult thing about suggesting that you keep the girls, @mummy917, is that he will have interpreted that as you saying that it's better for you to have them than him. Therefore, implicitly, you're criticising him as a parent.

We know that you made the offer because you were thinking of your children, but he won't have seen it like that. Hence why he became so confrontational.

I would say don't go and see them. Leave them to settle. It is right that they all went to his mother him as it is his time. This is important as it shows you are being co-operative and not trying to interfere with his 50%.

It's really really hard, I know. It's in our nature as good mothers to put our children first and walk over burning coals for them.

OP, please don't sign up to any sort of counselling with a man who doesn't even like you.

You are a wonderful mother, you put your children's need for your love and security above point scoring with him. They are so lucky and they saw that you wanted to care for them today, that is good for them to know. He sounds emotionally illiterate, he can't articulate what he feels, all he can do is shout. He was probably projecting and also feeling a little shame, that once again you were the parent rising to the occasion. He was probably also annoyed that their sickness complicated his reliance on his mother and blamed you because blaming you is the easy option. He sure likes the easy option. Funny thing is that children aren't forever and they will remember who was in the trenches with them - when they are adults they will celebrate their absolute luck in having you be their mother.

I agree - please don't consider counselling. It won't get you anywhere, other than to make you more upset.

And definitely don't go and visit the children. It was very kind of MIL to offer that, but Twatoo will not appreciate it, and will think that you were checking up on things.

It is difficult for you but you need to accept this is now his time with the children. Of course your instincts are to be there to protect them and cuddle them but he has said he will cope so let him do it. You need to set your own boundaries.

You should not have contacted his mother. I understand your need to know how the girls are but you are in danger of confirming his allegations of controlling behaviour. Contacting his mother puts her in a difficult position. You visiting your mother in law's house will more than likely upset the children and cause more problems. It is very hard for you but you must come to terms with how things are now.

I wouldn’t go to check on the children , to a normal person it’s maternal concern but he will see it as trying to undermine him , at the end of the day they are equally his kids and he should be capable of looking after them , sick or healthy . You need to stop having conversations with him , keep everything minimal and mainly communicate by text if possible .

People who have looked after my kids when they were ill and I had to be at work/elsewhere;

Their dad. The cleaner. My mum. My friend. The kid's friend's mum. The TV.

They're still alive and well.

God, he is such a gaslighting, lazy bully! Do you say, "Please don't shout in front of the children"? I know he probably won't stop but he needs pulling up on it every, single time.

So, he chooses to be confrontational face to face or on the telephone but is capable of saying the right things in texts? The time may not be right yet but may be coming when you need to ask your solicitor to write to him, stipulating communication only by text or other written form, outlining that 50-50 means he needs to ensure that he has what is needed to meet his children's basic needs without relying on you to supply and that 50-50 means he sticks to his agreed days and times and does not frequently seek to collect them late or drop them back early except in case of genuine emergency.

Meanwhile perhaps you could avoid speaking to him on the phone and use text, if necessary ,telling him why.

The more you write about him the nastier he sounds. A spiteful bully. You are doing great don't let him crush you any more than he already has.

What is best for them?
A routine set in stone so that they know what to expect.

Staying with me [...] goes against the agreement, but is showing flexibility on my part.
Never go against the agreement unless a genuine absolute emergency.
Don't bother about showing flexibility - he won't appreciate it, and will misinterpret it as you attempting control.
If he needs flexibility, let him ask for it (and feel free to say no and be inflexible if he just has selfish reasons).
It is not in the children's interests, or yours, for you to be 'showing flexibility' so that you can feel like a 'good mum'.

Or saying to him that these are situations that he now also needs to navigate as part of his 50% parenting
Yes, do this

and then looking and feeling like an awful mum
You may feel like it (wrongly), but you don't look like it. And who is looking? Who are you afraid will judge you?

This.
Do NOT go and visit them.

It’s my own internal thoughts about myself if I’m not there for them when they’re poorly as it’s unknown to both them and me. But I know it’s something I need to get used to.

I won’t go over and see them as I did worry that he would see this as undermining/controlling and it would be thrown in my face. Obviously I don’t want to unsettle the kids either. Thankfully his mum didn’t see it that way when I rang her and she sounded genuinely sympathetic.

I’m hoping one day things will just “click”.

I understand your instincts to want to be there for them, and I’m really pleased that you had a positive conversation with his mum. Hopefully she’ll let the DCs know you called.

It’s so hard but please take comfort that they are learning that there isn’t just you who will help them get better. There are other adults who will care for them too This will also reassure them this is not a big serious illness as well as teach them how to cope wherever they are poorly in the future.