Glam & Fab Part 6 - The Summer of Discontent

[Tanee58]

Hope you all find your way onto this new one !

Thank you all. Sugar thanks so much for that post too. It all makes perfect sense. Deep down I know they'd never be happy. I guess that's what makes me so angry, that we could have been.

Good advice about the house too sugar, hadn't thought of that.

I need to walk away. Properly. Only 2 people in RL know about this, and nobody knows what to say to me

I couldn't tell anyone in RL either - I am not sure if I was ashamed/didn't want to be pitied - I only told my 2 best friends - and only told my sister when my DD2 was born - my mum still doesn't know

Baffy - hello my lovely and to the rest of you guys as well.

Strangely enough I'm lurking today for the first time in what feels like months (selfishly 'cos I'm feeling down) and I happened to see your news. I haven't any good advice except to add my hugs to everyone else's and say that OMG Sugar - that post is so spot on, it's and at the same time.

I'm thinking of you anyway and will try to catch up with the rest of the thread so I can rejoin the fab and glam (although am feeling distinctly UNfab and UNglam atm!) xx

Hello cash so lovely to see you, been thinking about you

Got to rush to doctors now but catch up later xx

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Oh dear, DP won't like giving up the booze!!!!!! He might have to start smoking again - he said he started drinking more when he stopped smoking about 8 years ago. I didn't see him often during that time, so I wasn't aware. I just knew that he'd always liked a drink as long as I'd known him. Funny, isn't it - I drink when I'm happy - and the wine makes me happier (hence the bubbly yesterday when it seemed like we were turning a small corner) - if I'm sad, I usually avoid alcohol - or just have one glass to calm me down. I actually don't enjoy getting drunk when I'm unhappy (though I certainly necked it on Tuesday ). God, I'm such a hypocrite!

Anyway, it explains why the Prozac didn't work!

Well, I shall keep encouraging him to see the doctor anyway - he has so many issues surrounding his crazy family (the father he mourned so much that he took Prozac, messed up BIG time - incest with at least 2 of his four daughters - it had all just emerged when I met DP and it didn't help that he'd suffered from depression since he was 17). And you know all about his alcoholic sister and awful BIL! I really think he'd benefit from some really good counselling - as long as we can get it on the NHS otherwise we really WILL have to sell to pay for it!

DD comes home from her father's today (my exH never drank since he said he couldn't hold it and didn't care for the taste - what a saint and I didn't appreciate it! I still pined for the bucolic pleasures of my exbf/now DP!)

I'm really looking forward to giving her a big hug and a pizza and having a relaxing girlie weekend . And one of my friends is visiting next weekend which will be great. She says she & her H had a 'dip' earlier this year, but have gotten over it now.

And I am SO looking forward to meeting up with Dior - and HW - are you free?

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I know, Dior, it's just that sometimes recently I think back to what a safe, sane, reliable, BORING existence I had with exh. No drink, no sex, no arguments.... I do feel that, if DP and I split up, I'd feel bad that I inflicted so much pain on exH and DD for nothing- and my mother would LOVE to say 'I told you so' .

But for the moment, I do still love DP - even though he's been pretty unloveable lately. And I believe he actually loves me too - he just looks up from his pit of despair and thinks this is the only way to preserve that love .

Anyway, going home now to have that pizza with DD - and ONE small glass of wine .

Love you all, catch up with you later.

Baffy, it is so understandable that you feel one way one minute, and another way the next. I recognise that totally. Try to look at every day in hour or 2 hour segements, and get through each bit. In that 2 hours, something usually happens to change how you're feeling. At least that's what I'm beginning to find. I am thinking of you. And also, let yourself feel whatever you feel, whevever you feel it. There is no feeling that is wrong. Whatever you feel is ok, whether it hurts, and makes you cry, or makes you angry. Whatever. Try taking really long deep breaths, and focussing on listening to your breathing. I've found it helps me to calm down. Also I agree with Lily, perhaps his seeing that you are now totally moving away, and have now rejected him will be what he needs to really see what he wants. After all, they all seem to want what they can't have. Unfortunately for him, now it's too late.

It's been a busy few days. I met H yesterday, had a 2 1/2 hour conversation about "us". He didn't mention OS once (is that significant??). It was all about what our problems were, and was a civilised discussion around that. I felt it was productive, and although I dreaded it all day, I came away feeling positive. After all, we had a 2 1/2 hour discussion about our relationship - never done that before... The main issue seems to be intimacy, or lack of it. It came across very strongly that we both felt that - although he's only now realising that I wanted more too. We've made too many assumptions about eachother, and about what eachother thought and felt. The saddest thing is it's taken this to happen for him to open up and allow me in. I feel v. strongly that if we'd had this discussion 4 months, 6 months, a year ago, we would not be here now, we would have worked together on this. I came away last night really feeling that if it wasn't for ow, then we would definitely be working together now. Although if it wasn't for ow, then he wouldn't have been forced to face this head on. Perhaps some part of all this is that he's now had to look backm and find what was "wrong", in a way to justify himself now? I managed throughout the conversation not to mention getting back together, or working on it together now - everything I said was in terms of "I would have done anything", "I think it's so sad that you didn't give our relationship a chance" i.e. not I wish you would, or I would do anything. I think he needs to see me moving away - after all, asking him to come back has totally failed.. And I do know that none of this is my fault, he did it.

CnC so lovely to see you do keep us posted would be lovely to see you back !!!

UC am glad that it didn't turn into a blame situation and i think you are right as that was similair to me and dp but ow wasn't really in the picture when i found out. Intimacy can be rebuilt. Funny but dp found that a real excues for his affair and didn't seem to see that dc's can get in the way etc. etc. They do see sex as love end of! What did he suggest as the way forward ? I have to say you have done really well in terms of taking all that conversation on board without being needy and telling him how much you want to make another go of things. Do you hink his relationship with ow will burn itself out ?

Dior you can do that , just pop on here when you feel yourself slipping i could do with someone keeping me away from the biscuits !

Tfm so to hear of dp's gran. I hate how older people seem so vulnerable yet they know more than any of us iyswim.

Baffy wht can i say my heart is breaking for you. I wish he would be the man you married but i can't see it any time soon. The complete extreme of emotion is normal i'm sure but i know deep down you know what's right. I agree r/e counselling i think it's quite easy to sit and nod to say things you that are hard for the person to hear isn't. Maybe f and g (tfm) are the way to go.
In all seriousness i agree that maybe you do need to stay at your mums for a little while longer. I hink the support network is worth it's weight in gold. As for your vision og h and ow i think it will be very different. Sadly she is hoping by being you 'her and dc' will finally get some commitment from him, i guess she is going to be a lonely single mum.
I can't begin to imagine how shocked you must be as i guess h has turned from a lovely bloke into a complete #### in front of your eyes.
Baffy i hope the doc has given you something and please look after yourself as your ds needs one parent who he can rely on!!

Oh and Sugar am up for the Manchester meet def !!!

Tannee so glad he has agreed to the follow on sessions me and dp never got to them as he thought it was waste of time !!!!

Good morning ladies

Baffy I hope you got on ok at the doctors and you feel a lot better for going. Once you gain control of your feelings and emotions I am sure you will feel a lot better and more able to cope with everything. I am thinking of you xx

UC I am glad the talk with H went well, you seemed to have handled it perfectly and yes, I definately do think he sould see you moving away. Now you have got the 'talk' over and done with and you are in a more positive frame of mind, you should use this enery and invest in yourself, see him as nothing more than a friend, a person in his own right and respect him as such, be happy, be smiley when you are around him and show him what he could have had. Give him a chance to see the woman he fell in lve with all those years ago before life got in the way. If he starts to make a play for you then you have what you want, if he doesn't then you walk away feeling good about yourself and ith your self esteem not only intact but at an all time high!! And make sure you enjoy the whole process!

As for none of this being your fault, I agree, he made the choice to have an affair rather than discuss how he was feeling BUT I think we all have to take some repsonsibility for our part in the breakdown of a relationship. Yes, it's blooming hard to admit that we weren't perfect but if we don't own our part in the breakdown then if we do get back together we are likely to repeat the same mistakes, we need to learn from where things went wrong, admit it, own it and make sure it doesn't happen again. I hope that doesn't sound harsh UC, I don't mean it to be, I just want you to have a good chance of succeedig with H should all of this work out in your favour

But yes, he can take full repsosibility and ownership of his decision to have an affair. Like you say, it's a shame that it had to take him having an affair for him to open up to you.

I wonder what it is about men? I wonder why they can't talk and admit how they are feeling but they can so easily jump into bed with another woman. They must find having sex with a stranger a lot easier than talking. Maybe it's a diversion for them or an escape. Maybe they do set out believing it's just a shag, a quick fix, and don't fully realise the consequences. Emotions just don't come into it. Bloody Men!

Have a lovely weekend everyone

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thanks Lily and TFM - I wish h could see that intimacy can be rebuilt. I know it can, and I have said that to him, if you both want it to be - that's the point now. You can learn new behaviours, and new ways of talking. I said to him that I am totally willing to take responsibility for my share in our communication breakdown, I just won't take any responsibility for how he acted in dealing with it by shagging another woman. BTW, she is someone he knew at school, who got in touch on bloody friends reunited/FB. Bit of resurrecting the teenager going on...

I really hope relationship with ow will burn out, but who knows. I find it difficult to see how it can be a happy relationship at the moment...

I think there is more talking to be done. It's interesting what you say TFM, he says when he started this with her, it was a quick shag, and just about sex. So my question is how on earth that becomes "love" in a matter of weeks... it was 5 weeks before he told me that it started.

Baffy, I hope you are feeling all right this morning.

Thats brilliant UC, you seem to be heading in the right direction. I totally agree that intimacy can be rebuilt. I never thought in a million years that I would feel anything for DP after all that happened between us, I felt really closed to him in that area, I just wan't interested but, he has invested a lot of himself, not to win me round as such, he hasn't set out to get me into bed but he has set out to make me love him again. The thing is it's the daft little things that have made me go funny in the tummy and want to be close to him, like little looks that we now share and little jokes. It's hard to explain really but I do believe this has all come about from going right back to basics, being friends first, respecting each other, no pressures or expectations, just a nice easy friendly relationship. I can honestly say I have no expectations of him or the relationship at all now and I love it, it's each moment, each day as it comes. I am happy enough within myself that I don't expect him to make me feel loved or special BUT, it is happening anyway, he is telling me he loves me, he is hugging me just because he feels like it, kissing me too. All from a man who I thought was emotionally closed.

I have digressed sorry I suppose what I am trying to say UC is take care of yourself, your own needs, be happy for you, this will bring about a change in you which he is sure to fnid attractive, he won't want any other man to benefit from the changes anyway, thats for sure!

I do believe that if he wasn't still interested in you he wouldn't be talking to you. I think he is maybe trying to sort his own head out and I agree with you, I don;t for one minute think he can be in love so quickly. He may be in love with the idea, the fantasy but real love is something that develops, it's somethng that gets deeper and grows stronger after all the time and work that is invested, after things such as an affair etc. I don't believe love is all about sex and all that slushy stuff either, it's about being happy with each other, independently of each other, happy with silences sometimes, knowing that you are communicating in a way other than talking, it's about acknowledging that although he may not always tell you he loves he, he shows you he loves you by his actions, it's being open to everything, not just words. Crikey I've digressed again and I'm still not sure I've got across what I mean

If you want him back UC then give it your best shot. If you love him unconditionally then fight for him, but don't so it verbally, don't do it in a needy way, show him. Love yourself first and give him the space to come to you.

Myabe UC he is worried that if he does come back to you things are going to be the same as they were. Could that be a possibility? Maybe he just feels there is no point in coming back for more of the same, that if things don't change he still won't be happy. It's just a thought so I hope it hasn't offended you. I'm analysing and trying to see it from different perspectives. If that ^is6 the case then he needs to feel he can trust you, he needs to feel comfortable aroud you first, relaxed, not under pressure to come back. Once he feels comfortable then he may be even more open or you may find he makes the next move Thats what we are aiming for! Him to do the work!!

OK, I had better stop waffling.

But so far so good UC. Keep up the good work! xx

You too Dior, I meant to ask if you had gone to WW. Well done you!! I'm rooting for a fab weightloss for you xx

Glad things are looking much better for you UC

And great news Dior about the diet and the walking. That's so good to hear and you're sounding so positive.

Tanee I hope you enjoyed your wine and pizza with DD - sounds lovely.

And as for you TFM - well I can't tell you how much of a smile it puts on my face to read about how dp is being now and the way things are going for you. It is absolutely brilliant

I'm much calmer today. The doctor was great. She's signed me off for as long as I need, but I'm to go back in 10 days so she can see how I'm doing. She's referring me straight back to the counsellor too.
To be honest it was such a relief to have someone in RL tell me that it's ok to feel the way I'm feeling.

I was physically shaking just explaining the situation to her. And she was a bit lost for words. So I was apologising a bit saying I wasn't sure if I should have gone to see her and she said I absolutely should have done and she will be there to support me in whatever I need.

She offered AD's and sleeping pills. But I don't think I'm ready for that route yet. I'm actually 100 times calmer today and going to go out with friends tonight.
Considering I haven't been able to face even going out of the house since it happened, that is a big step

I saw H last night. While I was there SG called. And called. And called. Yet again he answered it. She'd had an argument with her grandparents (who she lives with) stormed out, and was over at her friend's house in liverpool (30 mins away).
She called him because she wanted him to go over there immediately to help her because she couldn't get home. She was in her car. The reason why she couldn't get home... she couldn't get £1.40 to pay the tunnel toll back!!!!!!!

I could hear H saying how pathetic she was and if she couldn't manage to remember her purse, or borrow £1.40 when she was with 3 friends, then how was she going to look after a child?!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. At times it is almost comical. She will stop at nothing to get his attention. Even when the 'excuse' is clearly something absolutely pathetic. At the same time though... that poor child And not to mention - why the hell has he put up with this off her for 18 months?!

Nothing makes sense.

But I think I'm done with trying to make sense of things and I will just worry about myself and ds.

I think H has well and truly bitten off more than he can chew with this one!

Hi everyone

Good to hear you sounding a bit better Baffy - I was worried about you yesterday. As you say GW has bitten off more than he can chew, can you imagine who is going to be left holding the baby when it is born as I dont see that she is ready for parenthood do you?

What does he see in her?

Have a great time out tonight Baffy - I hope your friends will look after you Dont go thinking youve met the man of your dreams when youve got your beer goggles on

Hi Baffy sweetheart

I am so gald you are feeling calmer today, so very glad. I have been thinking about you. I am pleased too that the doctor is supporting you.

Do you know what I think, I really do thin that for your own health (mental and physical) you need to take a HUGE step back from all that is going on with H and OW. All his mess is causing you far too much pain and stress. All the problems with OW are his and his alone. He has made his choice he now has to deal with that, without you to fall back on for support and encouragement. I know it's not going to be easy for you but you really do have to do it Baffy, for your own good. He ceratinly isn't going to think any better of you for being a loving and supportive friend plus (please forgive me for this) I worry that you may try to fool yourself into being his 'friend' when really all you are waiting and watching for are signs that he loves you and wants you back.

At the moment he doesn't have to do anything to get you onside because you are there with it at the ready. God, I really do feel for you, I know that this is so hard for you.

I can't beat about the bush though and watch you set yourself up for more pain and heartbreak. You have to let go, let go of the whole situation, the baby included. That is H's worry now, it't his concern not yours. You have your own life to live and to start and rebuild. Everything has been on hold for you for 2 years now, 2 years!!! And after all of that you are no further down the line with him, once again he has whipped the carpet from under your feet. I'm not sure how many more times we can see you get hurt by him and her!! It breaks all of our hearts.

Leave him to get on with it baffy, focus on all the good and all the positve you have in your life. I know it's hard, I know it's easier said than done but, it can be done. You are in control of you, of all of your feelings, emotions, reactions. You really can change how you feel and right now for your own health you have to.

I really am worried about you You are trying so hard to be brave and rise above it all, but don't try to be too brave. The doctor is right, everything you feel is normal, it doesn't mean you are weak or pathetic, it means you are human. Allow yourself to feel, to cry, to wallow but, don't get trapped in it.

If you feel you need a lift Baffy why not try 5htp and st johns wort? They are super!! Simply supplements do a tablet which is a combination of them both and i can tell you from experience that they are great! They are on a buy one get one free deal at the moment too
We need to get you lifted!!!

Promise me just one thing. That you will be totally honest about how you feel, that you won't try too hard to be brave or say what you think you should say or feel. Don't mask anything, work your way through the whole process, and let us help you with it. In other words be true to yourself about how you feel. Don't be afraid to admit how you feel, you will not be judged for anything! This is one thing that you have to go through step by step, you can't rush it or jump ahead, you have to work your way through, if you don't you can be sure it will come back to bite you on the bum!

Lots of love and a huge hug! xxxx

And thank you for your comment about DP he really has come a long way. We both have, it's nice xxx

Gosh TFM, you are very very wise. Baffy, I agree with EVERYTHING TFM has said in her post. Thinking of you.

TFM, I think it is very possible that h thinks things would be the same if he came back. I hope our talk on Thurs may have started him thinking it wouldn't be. It definitely wouldn't be. You mentioned being yourselves within your relationship - We were never that good at doing things separately, I think we never really understood very well how to deal with the ways in which we were different to eachother, and had different needs to eachother. And once the children were there, there's even less time!

I also think he is still trying to work out his own head - he even commented that a psychologist would have a field day with him (so go let one loose on you I say... - that would be a good thing...). I hope he isn't 100% sure of what he's doing - my counsellor thinks perhaps he thinks he is, but the fact that he is talking to me says that there is more going on subconsciously perhaps. I was pleased on Thurs that he didn't sit on a different sofa from me, we sat next to eachother, and he didn't cross his arms and legs, like he did in the counselling. He said he found the counselling excrutiating, and hated discussing us in front of someone else. I think perhaps it was all too early - too early for me to listen, and too early for him to open up. Or maybe it was too late - should have happened last year.

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I would never charge you guys! Never!

UC I think we may have hit the nail on the head then! If you were never very good at doing things separately then neither of you really got any breathing space. Two became one so to speak - not very healthy. Thats when things do become a bit predictable and you have nothing new to share with each other, you are together all the time so what do you find to talk about? It gets to the stage where you are together but you don't really see each other, and also you do tend to stop making so much of an effort. And although you may not intend it to happen a slight boredom sets in, closely followed by resentment. This is where there doesn't have to have been anything drastically wrong within the relationship, just life happening. Work, bills, housework, children.

OOoh I've just had a lightbulb moment so will get this out then refer back to your post. Do you know what I would do if I were you? I would arrange a date with him. Ask him if he would meet with you as you have something you wish to say. Book a table at a restraunt, get your hair done, your nails, whatever it is you do to feel glam, put on your best dress and heels and go meet him, make your own way there (show him your independent streak ) Then, over dinner tell him you have done a lot of thinking, a lot of soul searching and you realise exactly where you went wrong, where the relationship went wrong. Tell him that you would love to give things another try if he is willing but, you respect the fact he has fallen in love with someone else so you are going to draw a line under your relationship as a couple but hope you can work on a new kind of relationship with him as a friend. Then STOP TALKING about you as a couple and where it went wrong and enjoy the evening as friends. Have a laugh, bring up nice memories flirt with him enjoy his comapnay and let him see that he can enjoy yours Then go home giving him no more than a peck on the cheek, leave him wanting more It's all really a game UC, you just have to know how to play it.

I suggest the above because I get the feeling thats what you are both short of, it's what you need. I don;t for one minute think this relationship is over. If it were he wouldn't want to talk, he would be hostile and defensive because he would be protecting himself from you and your feelings. I have a tiny little feeling that he is quite enjoying all this, he is getting close to you without having to be close IYSWIM, he is opening up to you so he must be feeling comfortable around you. I think he is looking for something that tells him this will work. The thing is UC, if he still does love you and want you he will never let you go, he will continue 'looking' until he finds what he wants. So maybe is isn't really trying to work things out in his head as such, he is just searching for what he wants from you. Whatever he is doing, he isn;t walking away from you is he?

UC I'm not sure if you realise how much power you have here. I think if you play this wisely you may very well end up with the prize!

Yes, give him my email and tell him to get typing. I will sort him out! free of charge!!

What I'm trying to say UC is you sometimes have to let him go to allow him to come back to you, by telling him you accept what he says you are officially letting him go and giving him the space to come back to you. My bet is he won;t like being let go

Just had a thought UC, maybe H was like he was inf ront of the counsellor because he feels he/she will see right through him, work out how he feels about things. Maybe he had his defenses up and thats why he couldn't relax.