Glam & Fab Part 6 - The Summer of Discontent

[Tanee58]

Hope you all find your way onto this new one !

Still not offered to downgrade his car (10K while I am driving 10 year old Renault) or sell his bike - WTF is it with men and cars!!

MCD - how are you getting on with the solicitor - is there anyway you can get the seperation order so your things will at least be protected? It does seem harsh i know and seems to be against what you want but if he then shapes up, you will have protected the stuff for you both. I fear that he will whittle away what is rightfully yours and dds and all the time you are working extra.

We are here for you you know you are strong and even though you want to help him sort it out you do have to look out for you now.

Take care x

Baffy - i dont know how you do it!! I think i would have taken the phone off him and thrown it into the sea.
You know you are allowing him to treat you like this and only you can put a stop to it. Is there anyway you can make sure she knows when he is with you - she is obviously falling for his lies too and at least you would be honest with her by letting her know.
H is probably telling her he is only with you to see ds.
You are in a trap and only h can get himself of it.
I do know how you feel - i too have been there - but mine only went on for about 4 months with us both knowing.
H says it is like being pulled in 2 directions and he did not want to hurt anyone - it alos means he had to admit to being a liar to one of us (and for us both to know that).
I am sure at the time he means what he is telling you but until he has some time completly away from her his mind will keep fluxuating and does not want to hurt anyone and also does not want to miss out and make the wrong deciosion. I do fear that he will never make it and will wait until one of you does it for him - sorry . He will then be able to say to the other what a complete bitch you were and you will 'help' him get over it.
Baffy you do deserve so much more than this - he MUST show his commitment to you and only you otherwise you WILL be here next year too, and none of us want that.
He has the perfect chance now - he is not committed to ow (except for the baby - but legally he is to you) he still can walk away from her and cut her out of his life - if need be the baby could be seen only with someone else there - eventually she will get the message but h has got to want her to get it too.
How is your divorce coming on too?

I just want to give you a hug and make it all go away and i so wish i could but you do know you are stong and can do this - let him get to his rock bottom and try and stick to what YOU want now - you dont really want him part time do you?

hello, glad someone's here now! It was quite lonely over the weekend!!!

MacD, at the car... Men and cars, isn't it something to do with penises - they can't show them in public, so they have to get a smart car to tell everyone about what's in their trousers.

HW, you have no idea (actually you probably do!) how comforting it is to hear that your h was just like mine. How long did it take you to win yours back? I keep thinking that it's all about time, about waiting, being patient, and I know that one day I'll run out of patience and capacity to wait, or I'll meet a knight in shining armour (), and then it WILL be too late. In the meantime, I must get on with life, look happy, be reasonable. I too have thought through the scenario of actually creating a situation where he feels he wants to defend me against HER. So far, he can't criticise me I don't think.
I have said to him that I am totally prepared to take responsibility for my part in some of the problems, communication etc. I am, I have said I recognise things in myself the last few years that I don't like. I have spent a long time thinking about how I want to be different now, in my next relationship. But I will not take any responsibility for how he has chosen to deal with those issues (some of which I didn't even know were there, as he didn't tell me how he felt).
I think if I put together a load of photos, he might see it as me trying to pull on the heart strings. Although I guess there's no harm in making a collection of the boys, from birth to now. Although he has them all on his computer...
I know ow is worried about me, since she is getting feed back from her friend that I know and chat to. She doesn't feel that secure... After all, if he can do it to his wife and 2 kids, he can do it to her...
I am actually finding that I'm beginning to enjoy the children again more. It was hard in the beginning and my temper was so short. It's getting better now...! Anyway, they are gorgeous.

Hope everyone has a good day.

HW and Baffy I will try and work out this CAT business....!!!

Thanks HW. I think exactly the same as you, I don't want to be here in 12 months time with nothing changed and still living like this. No I definitely don't want him part time. I think that's the key isn't it. I either have him full time and he commits to that, and us, or nothing.

I do fear he will take the 'easy' option and choose nothing. That way he can bury his head forever and tell himself it wasn't his fault but it was all too difficult. But if he does that then he's not the man I need him to be anyway.

Regarding my divorce I posted the papers a while ago. Not heard anything back yet so just waiting for that. I assume the court will contact me next??

Macdoodle I tend to agree with HW. Perhaps go down the legal separation route and get the finances straight. I'd even be tempted to ask him outright to sell the bike and downgrade the car. After all, you did not choose for any of this to happen, none of it is your fault, and he's bloody lucky you're doing all you can to save the situation.
Perhaps your H needs the wake up call too.

MacD, I asked my solicitor about legal separation, and she said it's a difficult one, and advised me to wait until I want to divorce. I know that's not much help. She said that a legal separation agreement is hard to enforce if he doesn't stick to it. Have you asked him to get rid of the car and bike?

Baffy, I agree with HW. Would you be strong enough if he does the phone thing again to take the phone off him/walk away and leave him on the beach by himself?

That's definitely the thing UC I need to be stronger.

It's pathetic that in order to be with him I'm allowing him to treat me like crap! I definitely need to get more self respect and like you say, be prepared to just walk away and leave him to it if he insists on putting her first every single time we're together.

It comes back to the crux of the matter though. If she knew we were together all he would have to say is look, I'm out with baffy and ds, by all means call me if something serious happens and you need me, but I'm not willing to be in touch every 10 minutes by text all throughout the day.

He just needs to be straight with her and stick to it.

Perhaps I need to take some of my own advice there!

When I pick ds up from him tonight I'm going to spell it out one last time, and I promise I am going to do my very best to stick to it. I'm sick of myself so god knows how fed up you must all be of me! I'm sorry.

Baffy you will get there in your own time - be kind to yourself, it is because you are such a lovely person that he can do this to you and it only because you have no-one else that he 'will do' i honestly believe that ( my friend with the georgous new man is getting loads of flack of her exh now but she really does not care anymore - he obviously still thinks she does and is coming out with all the old lines that she used to fall for, that he has really changed he now feels strong enough to leave ow if only she would give him another chance - she just laughs at him now which of course makes him angry but there is nothing he can now do to hurt her - she is different woman now and we all like her for it. It took a long time but she did it, in all it was about 2 years before she knew she had to move on - her story is so like yours too) Take heart there will come a day when you will feel like that too. You are not being a fool but i bet you will look back and think you were (but we dont think that really).

UC - bummer about the photos - i am the one with all the photos on my computer so that wouldnt work for him would it. How about getting the children to make things for him? or getting some of their old work out so that you can make something for his 'new home' - anything that will keep you and the family in his mind in a nice way?
How about getting the children to paint him a cup or plate at one of those ceramic studios?

Did get the cat btw too so can now contact at last.

My solicitor suggested starting the seperation order first if only to serve as a date when we could look back and then divide the assets - if after that date he had been frivious with his money it would not affect my share of final settlement. Then if he wants to 'waste' money on a luxury flat, flash car or just living the single life it would not have made a difference to what i could get and certainly he would take the debt instead of us both being responsible for it. Of course same could be said for you racking up huge credit card bills on things for you. I was also adviced to not try and tighten my belt as i would need to show how much i actually 'needed' to live a reasonable life. So try to carry on a normally as possible.

Hello!!! I've finally managed to get rid of them all and get to the Internet Room in the hotel.
Baffy - you have the patience of a saint, you really do . I really hoped he'd sort it out this time and put you first.
Regarding the stag night stuff, I am seeing loads of stag night groups here at night and the guys really do act like arseholes. The bad thing about where we are staying is that it is fairly near the red light district and the behaviour you see really is shocking (or maybe I'm just getting old and prudish ). I'm sure they are all really nice lads at home but on holiday they are total twats!!!
PC and LL - well done on the job front.
Sorry but I've just skimmed through the last few days and I'm sure I've missed loads of posts!
We are having a lovely holiday. Lots of lazing by the pool and spending time with the boys and dp is being just like the old dp I fell in love with. When the kids were at the kiddy club this afternoon we went for a long walk along the beach and talked and talked but sadly we always end up at the same place. He says he doesn't have a problem, its always everyone else's fault. He thinks because we are getting on now on holiday that things can be fixed, but I'm more realistic - once we get back to reality the same old shit will set in and we'll be back to square one.
We left it that we wouldn't dicuss "us" anymore this holiday and go back to our separate lives when we get home. Its sad but we have both come to the conclusion that it will never work.
So I'm going to enjoy another week and a half of this suspended reality and try and look forward to a fresh start just me and my boys when we get back. Not sure if I'm sad or happy about that atm really.
Anyway, sorry this has been all me me me but I haven't got long and the girl keeps looking at her watch!
Love to you all x

Hi Everyone, well, here beginnith another fun week. At least I have two interns in today so some of the pressure is off.

HW did you sort out your washing machine? Sorry, I don't do drains - might be rats down them (that's where I store my exbfs )

UC - keep doing what you're going - be abfab and act like you are moving on in style. It'll rile OW and may - just may - make H take more notice of you - or it may lead you onto who knows what/where/whom - if only we knew the future - but then again, it's better not to. If it's bad, why ruin the present with knowledge of it, if it's good, let it come as a lovely surprise .

Baffy - I would have been tempted to throw his phone into the sea. Couldn't he spend just ONE afternoon devoting his time to you and DS? Keep standing up for yourself.

LL - I wouldn't worry too much about other women telling you that H is a pinup - it's far more dangerous if they tell HIM that. I'm quite chuffed when the girls at work (and one or two of the men) comment on the pic of DP on my desk. Even if it was taken about 10 years ago, when he had more hair and a tighter jawline . He was mortified when a couple of schoolgirls told him after a show, that he looked like Pierce Brosnan or Richard Gere (he thought it was inappropriate for 14 year olds to find him attractive when he's old enough to be their dad) but I said that they were almost right - but perhaps needed an eyetest . Take it as a compliment.

Dior - wow 17 miles cycling in this heat! I salute you. I've been dragging round the garden and house trying to move as slowly as possible.

Had a nice restful weekend. DP arrived home for a few days at midnight, which wasn't ideal as we then sat up till 3.30am sharing a bottle of Cava and listening to music - so it's a miracle that I could function at all at work. But it was really nice - he still seems to be in an optimistic mood and his old affectionate self - long may it last .

Ginnny, Hi - glad you are having such a great time. Sad that he's still not facing up to his demons.

I think you are doing the right thing - take each day as it comes and make this a holiday of good, positive memories. If nothing else, it will be something good for you to look back on, and when/if he finally reaches the point where he begins to take responsibility for himself, he may remember and consider what he's given up through his own stupidity.

Hope you won't feel the need to get into the internet room too often .

Hi ginny good to hear from you

Glad you're making the most of your time and enjoying it. It's a real shame that things will go back when you're home, but as you say until he can face up to the fact that it is HIS problem and HIS fault, then there is no hope. If you're alone, you can at least look forward to some quality, peaceful time with the boys and no more of his crap!

And thanks for all the support everyone. I am standing up to him. I'm going to stay strong this time I'm so so fed up of it all.

He just texted to see how I am. I said not ok at all, and never will be until he starts putting me first. He said he's really sorry and he knows he does too much to keep her sweet... So translated... that means he gets an easy life from me no matter what. She gives him hassle unless he's jumping when she says jump. So who does he keep sweet? The loving devoted mug of a wife, or the unhinged slapper who'll cause a fuss...

Enough said!

Time to fight back I think

PC how are you doing??

Hi ginny
Been reading a very interesting book about how our minds work and in order to protect ourselves we 'remember' the bad so as not to repeat the behaviour (think about crossing the road - you look because in the back of your mind is worst case - being run over) even though it is highly unlikely. So we change our behaviour to protect ourselves.
what i am getting at is although you could be right about him going back to his drinking you are already preparing yourself for it iyswim. It is a huge leap of faith but could you just take the good days for as long as they are there? no pressure and if he does fall off the wagaon you could both see it as a blip and work on it together.
Probably talking bollocks so feel free to ignore - after all i dont know how you have put up with this much, we all have a limit after all.
I suppose i am saying that if you are enjoying him why not wait until he does 'prove you right again' - enjoy it while you can - be a bit selfish for you now - then if he does fuck up again at least you have a few more days/weeks/months of lovely him?

Anyway good luck and enjoy the rest of your hols.

afternoon all

baffy, i'm melting! no a/c when WFH but at least a cold shower instead. can't take laptop in with me tho

i so get where you're at in some ways. H has totally put everyone else ahead of me in the past. why? because they behave like utter nutters and i behave calmly and reasonably.

fwiw, he despises them now. the damage is done of course but he is now capapble of acknowledging his own part in causing that damage.

because i am still (mostly lol) calm and reasonable we are still friends and that means we are getting to a place where i feel like i have a modicum of co-parenting support. not the 50/50 co-parent relationship i envisioned and god alone knows what we will have in the future but stale bread is good when you've been on a starvation diet i guess......

ginny, glad you're having a good time. enjoy it and worry about the rest when you get home.

shit, is that the time! i gotta run! only just did a skim read so sorry if i misse4d anyone.

tanee, you're a legend. if i'm not in bed by 10:30pm i can't cope the next day!

hw, you're advice and perspective are brilliant.

UC, how OpHub going? LL, job? Dior, bloody yellow jersey for you!

TFM, hope you're having fun in the sun.

I agree, HW your advice is brilliant.

Do agree PC about the stale bread thing... but look at me, just 2 months on the stale bread and I'm demanding a full roast dinner with all the trimmings!

I think there's only so much we can all put up with and it's so strange how people's tolerance levels differ, but I have to say PC you've put up with more than most and I take my hat off to you!

Message withdrawn

lol, nothing wrong with demanding a roast with all the trimmings.

tbh, i think you're doing it a lot tougher than i have ever had to wrt to psychos in your life.

i do think i am lucky in that i never had H around (well not for long eh!) so I just started on my own with dd. it must be horribly hard to have a really hands on parent who then absents themselves.

fwiw, i think i've only just graduated onto a roll and butter. maybe i'll get some soup to go with it soon?

rang h earlier as car is playing up a bit. went to VM so left message. half hour later he calls back, not listened to message but saw missed call so just rang

ha ha, roast with all the trimmings! We all deserve a bloody 5 course meal, wine, coffee, stay in a luxury spa hotel with free massages, pedicures and manicures thrown in. I thought I had a starter, main and pudding with wine and even a port to finish, but it turns out actually I had the starter and main, but the chef did a runner before pudding. H was a really hands on, great dad, and I thought, great husband. Only 3 hours before he told me about ow, I was singing his praises to a friend, about how great and understanding he was... How can you get it so wrong?!

PC, am guessing that h calling you after seeing your missed call is a good sign?

In answer to your q about OpHub, haven't got a clue how it's going... Not much contact with him since last week. But being strong, or appearing so, is the only way I can see I'll ever either get through this on my own, or make him realise what a total twunt he's been. One or the other must happen.

PC, I agree with you about being calm and reasonable, I think that's the only way anything will ever change for me and h, even if it's only to be that we parent successfully (although lion's share is going to be my responsibility, and they will be MY boys....). I couldn't live with myself if this affected the children badly, I would hate for them to resist committment with they're older just because of what their dad did, and how we dealt with it... God, that just breaks your heart doesn't it, I can hear them in 30 years time saying "oh it took me a long time to decide to get married/have kids/commit/settle down, I just didn't want to make the same mistakes my parents made..." I never thought that would be my children...

Sorry again, went on a bit then!

UC your sounding so down. I guess this is part of the process though accepting what's happened i am sorry it doesn't sound like h wants to sort things out anytime soon but agree with others that it isn't always as cut and dry as friends say.

McD that things are so financially bad for you at the minute. Are the debts shared or just h ? How are you going to do more hours with the girls ?

PC wow that last trip may well have made an impression ?

Baffy i hope tonight he puts you first i really do. I can't believe how he has swapped you and ow with you being a secret now! But i do feel that he needs to know that you aren't prepared to 'keep her sweet' and i really do think that by him openly doing that in front of you he is being completely direspectful. You shouldn't have to put up with that you are not the ow.

to everyone else. All hectic here with the hols and taking advantage of the lovely weather fingers crossed it hold for dd's christening Sunday as we having barbecue.
i was very tipsy Saturday and i even fell asleep on the bed when i went up to sort dd out and dp had to come up and wake me i hope friends didn't notice but the monitor was on

Baffy hope you are ok - does h do books? would he read any self help books?
I would recomend the rules of life - it is very simple and has 'rules' that if you follow should give you a fantastic life.

I found it very useful - the rules are simple and really make you think about how you are iyswim.

A couple that i remember are
Treat your partner like you best friend always (it then goes on the clarify it saying that too often we take our partners for granted ect..)
The other one i remember is to set boundaries for yourself (they can change over time but if there is something you cannot tollerate you owe it to yourself to respect your own choice and stick to it.)
It says to mark the line in the sand and if those who know it are still willing to cross it they are not worth being in your life)

It is a good book and although at times made me cry it also made me think hard about myself.
One rule i still practice is to always be the first to say sorry - that is not to take responsibility for the aguement but to say 'sorry we did not agree on xxxx topic .. lets agree to disagree' or just to say sorry we agured is often enough - it actually works and it does not make you feel weak at all.

I used this one a lot
'sorry our realationship was not enough for you'
'sorry i didnt realise you were so unhappy with our relationship' 'i wish i had know earlier'
and then of course when the sh** hit the fan and i often lost it
'sorry i lost control for a bit there' That is really not the person i am'

Anyway you get the idea

If you could get h to read it it may help a bit.

UC you are doing so well and i will try and email you today - did start yesterday but got called away.

Got to go now - hoping to get uniform for dd who is starting school in september - she is so excited i am expecting to have to wash it several times between now and then as she is always wanting to 'play' schools.

Hope the sun is shining where you are - we had a massive storm last night but it looks as is it will be ok today.

lily, just texted your dp. hope he doesn't mind and that i'm not bugging him!

exhausted this end. can't cope with mid-week houseguests in small flat. will not do it again until have spare room.

how'd you go baffy?

UC, what's the main objective of OpHub? If you can define a range of outcomes that you would like to achieve (amicable split/co-parent right the way up to grovelling return of wayward h as personal slave forever more!) that might help you keep up the very excellent work you are already managing.

tbh, at this stage i think your H is in full tilt MLC and whilst he might concede your being reasonable, he won't see that as any incentive to return. the MLC must run it's course and it will only be when the pink fluffy period of his MLC abates that he might want to come back.

of course, depending on the preferred outcome of OpHub, he might have missed the boat by that time!

and of course, desired OpHub outcomes can be amended at any time.

H rang again last evening and this morning twice!

Message withdrawn

Wow PC I agree with Dior, who is this person?! Long may it continue

UC I totally understand how hard this is for you but you are so strong and composed. I'm amazed at your ability to deal with this and think rationally about the longer term. Especially your committment to the children and how you want them to grow up. You're an inspiration.

It went well with H. Well in respect of the fact that he completely understands where I'm coming from, what I'm saying, and most importantly, that I'm really NOT asking too much of him!

The test is though, will he now take this to the next level and make a stand not only for us as a couple, but a stand against OW.

I said to him that I feel as though I am going out with OW's ex. Not that I have reconciled with my own husband.
Does that make sense to you?
The whole focus and priorities need to shift so that we are a married couple and his life is with me. Then he has a co-parent relationship with her which is 100% about the child and nothing more. Will that ever happen though?!

I can truly see that in his own way he is trying. He's very attentive. Affectionate etc. But he's not making that final leap. I don't yet feel like I'm the important one. And until I do I'm not giving in.

HW I loved your advice. In particular "The other one i remember is to set boundaries for yourself (they can change over time but if there is something you cannot tollerate you owe it to yourself to respect your own choice and stick to it.)"

I really like that and I'm going to remind myself of that next time I start to weaken. Thank you.

I'll suggest the book idea to H too.

thanks baffy - he may well say he understands your pov but remember actions speak much louder than mere words.
Dont worry you may not have found where your boundary is but you will.

Good advice from pc to uc about what you want as the outcome (which can change) you know him best so go for the weakest area. For me it was piling on the guilt through his lack of contact with the children and the fact that he was repeating his fathers behaviour (he despised his father who left him at age 4). He could see he was turning into him (and that was more scary than me turning into my mother ).

Hi dior - sounds good at yours, i am sure h is happy about the weight loss becuse you are - we have all noticed how happier your posts are now, keep it up.
starvation diet having some success i think - things do seem a little loser but the lack of real food to my brain may mean it is playing tricks on me . Only 3 days to go to holiday now .

I think I'm pretty close on knowing the boundary now and I really do know that as a minimum, I want honesty from him to all parties and as you say, I want to see from his actions where his priorities lie.

So next time I'm with him and she kicks off he has 2 choices, tell her he's with me and then stop the contact, or I leave.

And believe me, if I leave then I won't be going back!

In the meantime though, and I mean literally in the next few days, I want him to talk to her about the fact that we're together and set her straight on how he sees their relationship as co-parents going forward.
I'm not sure if people may think I'm being unreasonable here. But truly, if that conversation doesn't take place in the next few days, I feel ready to walk away. I've had enough.

I've always been too scared to push this with him. But really, either he's with me and we're trying, or he's not. It really does feel that black and white to me. I need to start moving forward with my life.

I'm having to get pretty arsey about it now too, because he's not really getting the fact that I need to see it in his actions and not just the words...
But the more arsey I get the more his barriers go up and he starts acting funny with me in return...

I have to discuss a money issue with him tonight and it's not going to be pretty
But at the same time if I haven't got the committment to him as my husband, then my financial support in return is going to stop. I'm not prepared to fund his single life any longer I've been a total twunt to do it for this long!

I'm definitely feeling stronger than I have in a long time.

HW you've been a star. You all have

Hope you all have a nice evening