struggling with my university-age son's boundaries when he comes home

[lurchersforever]

I am struggling to adjust to ds and the changes to our relationship now he is an adult and away at university but home in the holidays. I've always considered us to be close but something he said when I picked him up from university threw me and I would like an outside perspective on it. I think this is a bit waffly as I'm trying to give context.

As soon as he got in the car at pick-up, he said there was a non-negotiable for when he is at home. He said I wasn't to make a fuss about unimportant things and gave an example from when he was home for Easter and I questioned him at times about how he was spending his time and other fairly trivial stuff he was doing. He said that can't happen. I said while we were on non-negotiables he would have to help out at home over the summer and he said that was fine and he gets that but that if he didn't it wouldn't have the impact of stopping us having a functional relationship in the way it would if I kept up my behaviour. That seemed quite nuclear to me.

I get where he is coming from. I do get anxious about things (I have sought help for this) and really struggle to stop myself from spiralling if I think, for example, that he is making bad choices or that something may be wrong that he's not telling me. I'm divorced and he and ds2 spend 4 nights per fortnight at their dad's and always moan but pretty good-naturedly nowadays about going there. Dad does no parenting really so everything has always been on me.

Neither ds has ever given me any real trouble at all - excelled at school, good friends etc. I'm not that strict on chores but they do stuff I ask generally speaking notwithstanding a bit of nagging sometimes being needed. Ds1 is at Oxford and I know has worked incredibly hard this year, as he always does. He's had some great feedback, thinks the exams went well and tutors are mentioning post-grad already and have recommended some reading/home learning specifically for that over the summer, though he's only done 1 year.

He had a part time job while doing A levels and last summer - it wasn't huge and was based at his school in the canteen etc so he can't do it now and he doesn't plan to work. He says the cricket team he used to captain will pay him a bit to umpire and he may be able to get some shifts at their bar. Other than that he will be doing the home-learning and we are away for a couple of weeks in the summer. But he'll be home for more than 3 months so this is what I struggle with. But I know he's not lazy and he says he doesn't need money from me as he has saved some over the term (I top up loan and he has some money from GPs etc, Oxford is quite cheap). He has never asked for extra money. But I know there will be times when I say wtf are you doing? How does this fit with his non-negotiables?

He has also started now and again commenting on how snappy I was when the dc were young. Like I'll say something like how long it is taking in a shop and he'll say 'Oh, if I had said that when I was 7 you would have been like..' and then exaggerates me 'blowing up.' He is laughing at these times and being OTT but I'm starting to think he is looking back and thinking I was a shit mother and we will soon have no relationship. I did my best but I have a stressful job and I have no doubt I wasn't always as patient as I could have been but I also feel we had a lot of fun and spent a lot of time together. He never went through the being in his room all day phase so despite his busy social life we've spent so much time together talking etc. He also struggled at Oxford in the second term and had a lot of essay crises which meant a lot of 3am phone calls and tears, which obviously I supported him with.

What does all this mean for our relationship? I feel a bit sad and daunted. I think he wants to be treated like an adult but isn't quite there and I don't really trust my judgement.

This.

Obviously a dc coming home from uni doesn't get to rule the roost but you get the feeling there is a huge back story here and the ds is trying to calmly give his possibly difficult dm another chance.

Listen to him op.

Those aren’t “nice to haves” though, it’s common courtesy to let the people you live with know you’re going out, and roughly when you might be coming back so they know whether to cook for you. It’s downright rude not to say goodbye to someone you share a house with if they’re there at the time. Pulling your own weight in the house isn’t helping, it’s part of being an adult.

So she needs to respect that he’s an adult, while he behaves with a minim of courtesy towards to woman that is underpinning his lifestyle?

OP, the first thing that comes to mind is that there might be more in the background here preceding your son coming home from uni. Where have his “non-negotiables” come from? Have you ever had any serious fallings out before this move-in year? How were his last few years at home before he went?

It does sound like he’s fairly organised and capable, so you can relax over that much at least.

I think answers to this are varying based on how we’ve read the OP- either that she’s asking reasonable questions about plans and movement over the summer (fine of course) or that she’s repeatedly pestering out of misplaced anxiety (not fine).

Oh my gosh I could have written this ! Spent the morning in tears - DS came home for a week at the end of uni and has left again for the summer- I worked so hard to make the week perfect accepting that was all I was getting - it was as like walking on ice - everything I said I was wrong - I’m throwing myself a little pity party this morning so please feel free to join !

It would be interesting to know what cards he holds in this "non-negotiables" situation.

The card to say that he no longer wants a relationship with OP.

I think "non-negotiables" was clumsy wording, but he is communicating to OP that he finds her previous behaviour unacceptable and would like her to consider the way she treats him (does she speak to any other adults the same way, I wonder?).

I think this is a sign of maturity - OP can either choose to self reflect on and change her behaviour, or ignore him and carry on regardless (and in a few years' time post on MN that she has no idea why her DC is NC after everything she's done for him).

I am not sure Oxford is doing him any favours. Sounds to me as if he and his peers are winding themselves up with discussions of unreasonable parents.

Academically sure he may work hard during the term but that is absolutely no reason why he can't at least try to get a job for at least part of the Summer holidays to help contribute. ds1 (OK not Oxbridge but still worked hard) cleaned toilets for goodness sake - a far cry from his theoretical physics degree - because he wanted to become independent of the bank of Mum and Dad. That is what being an adult is and not criticising your mum for asking questions.

A certain amount of communication is necessary in a shared household. This is not interrogation it is asking for information so you know what food to buy, how many to cook for and whether the doors should be locked at night. This is basic courtesy. And what is wrong with making a bit of conversation - again an adult and courteous thing to do. Is it that he actually feels a bit guilty and embarassed that he is not doing anything very constructive with his time that is making him go into defence mode?

He can't have it both ways. Ringing his mum up at 2.30 in the morning is OK but then it is non-negotiable for her to ask him a few questions about his day. I am extremely tolerant of my ds's but my goodness if they came at with statements of non-negotiables I would be pointing out that there is a front door and they were welcome to use it.

As soon as he got in the car at pick-up, he said there was a non-negotiable for when he is at home. He said I wasn't to make a fuss about unimportant things and gave an example from when he was home for Easter and I questioned him at times about how he was spending his time and other fairly trivial stuff he was doing. He said that can't happen. I said while we were on non-negotiables he would have to help out at home over the summer and he said that was fine and he gets that but that if he didn't it wouldn't have the impact of stopping us having a functional relationship in the way it would if I kept up my behaviour. That seemed quite nuclear to me.

Blimey. He sounds a bit arsey tbh. The first thing he said?! Um, lovely to see you too!

You did a bit of a 'yes but' in reply, which likely then went some way to him responding 'yes but' in kind. Basically you were taking turns to up the stakes. He got to end with the mic drop though. 'Yes but, if you do that, game over.' Boom.

It sounds exhausting. He is anticipating (and finding justification for this...'you've done this before...you've always done this') and, from your very long and extraneously detailed OP, you are a biiiiig overthinker. You sound like two peas in a pod!

Accept there is going to be some push and pull, but, as you are the proper adult (rather than the fledgling) you are going to have to grit your teeth more than him. He didn't do the washing up? Let it slide. Also, factual questions with no follow ups: 'I'm cooking tonight. Will you be around? No? No problem.'

Equally, show him you are living your life on your own terms. Solidarity. I have been there. Usually with mine it goes: out out, out every night without a backward glance, then when I have the temerity to go out it's 'omg, you're leaving me aloooone?! But I'm only back for a short while...wah'
Yes, yes, silly me, I forgot, you are still only a baby....😬

I'm in Scotland but yes, aware I will be financially responsible for my children if they pursue higher education. I just meant if she's topping up enough that he can live on it all the school year 'and' all summer that's probably more than is necessary. Coming back home as an adult means both sides need to be flexible - it's hard to share a space with another adult! I didn't really manage this well when I was the adult child living at home.

If OP expects her DC to get a job then she should be saying that. Not hinting round the edges as she has in the OP.

This in spades!

I have 2 DS in their early 20s too. It sounds like you need to back off and let him make his own decisions on things. It doesn’t sound like he lazes around at all - just back off what he is doing and enjoy when he wants to spent time with you.

Also this in spades.

It's great that he is talkng.

It's normal for DS to help out about the house when living there.(Own washing, some cleaning, picking up after themselves in the kitchen, bins, lawns, cooking etc.)
Decide together whether he would prefer to be trusted to take charge of cetain tasks or whether he would like to pitch in when asked or a bit of both.

Whenever he brings up how you parented when he was young, laugh along too and be honest.

Remind him that it was difficult and that you tried your best.

I think he wants to be treated like an adult but isn't quite there

He is though, OP. He is an adult. You want to keep controlling him and he is telling you that has to stop. That that stage of your relationship is over. That's why he's pointing out that you continuing will hurt your relationship, not just irritate him in the moment, or feel rude or ungrateful. You are, fundamentally, telling him he isn't good enough when you do this.

But I know there will be times when I say wtf are you doing?

Why will you do this? You've said he's been pretty good kid, so what would be the purpose of this? It might be appropriate if he were doing things that threatened the workings of the home or the other people in it, but that doesn't sound like it's something you're anticipating. TBH it sounds like you've failed to separate your own identity from your DC. He gets to direct his life now. He gets to choose and that does mean he gets to make poor choices as well as good ones, but the reality is, he's probably going to make better choices for him that you will. and he's going to make those good choices sooner if he's given the space to do so. You need to be looking at making choices for yourself, not your DC. Maybe spend time working on your inability to keep things in perspective and let them spiral?

I don’t think so, I read her as rather anxious and pestery - as many mothers are.

Nonetheless, DS is not yet an independent adult - he is bankrolled, clothed and fed by his DM and DGPs - he doesn’t get to lay the law down and inform his mother that his failure to keep up with his end of the bargain would not impact their relationship the way it would on her side.

If my son said that to me I’d just tell him to do one. He’s welcome to get a job and find his own place to live.

There’s a meeting in the middle: she worrets at him less and he doesn’t get above himself.

Back off mithering him about what he's up to. He's a young adult at university, not a 13 year old.

He will be doing umpiring and bar work. That's plenty. He is also happy to pitch in around the house.

If he stays up until 3 and sleeps until noon on a day he doesn't have a shift, that is none of your business.

You were obviously nagging him at Easter about how he spends his time, and you say it's because of your general anxiety. That's your issue to manage. He's just making clear he doesn't want it landing on him.

It's very healthy and a credit to your parenting that he can communicate clearly and honestly with you.

But I know there will be times when I say wtf are you doing?

Why would you be saying “wtf are you doing”??
He’s an adult and can do whatever he wants, whether that’s staying out all night or lying in bed all day.

You need to stop being so controlling else you will lose this relationship.

and he'll say 'Oh, if I had said that when I was 7 you would have been like..' and then exaggerates me 'blowing up.'

He’s literally joking around and probably does see you being a bit softer on your younger DCs.
I think everyone has said something similar to their parents before.
Just joke around back and say something like you’ve learnt to be more patient over the years.

You obviously have some serious MH issues and I think it’s ok to be quite honest and open about these things.

That's a really good point. It's not always easy to communicate with a parent about how their behaviour is impacting you. For an 18 year old to do that, even clumsily, says some positive things about OP too.

I can see both sides - he’s basically saying “get off my case” and it’s a natural progression for an older teen who has started at university - they get a taste of running their own life and not having any parental nagging or fussing. Which is of course a good thing and what you want - it’s the start of the road to actual independence. And you do want the relationship to change over time to him being an adult child who makes his own decisions and who you respect as an adult. Him wanting to reset the boundaries a bit is reasonable in itself.

BUT at the same time kids of this age actually have no clue what being a fully formed adult is really like, let alone being a parent. They think they know it all but if they suddenly had to run the house, pay for everything, keep on top of all the admin and maintenance, and raise kids they’d have the shock of their lives. It’s normal for them to be solipsistic and inconsiderate and not really understand what an easy ride they’re having (because of course their life isn’t actually easy, there’s a lot of stress and pressure and change - they just have no clue what full “adulting” takes.)

I think the “act like an adult, get treated like one” line is the best - of course agree to back off a bit, on the basis he contributes housework, is respectful and doesn’t speak to you like a minion. I’d be pulling him up on the rudeness but maybe in a more lighthearted way if that works.

He’ll just have to learn that whilst he’s living for free under your roof he doesn’t get to call the shots and have “non-negotiables”
that you deem unreasonable.

His choice - abide by the family/house rules or live somewhere else.

He’s obviously growing up and wants to have a more adult and equal relationship with you, which is fine and to be expected. He has worked hard at university and deserves a break. Unless he starts asking you for money regularly, leave his employment status to him, ditto his social life.
BUT, and it’s a big but, any child of mine who gets in the car after I’ve driven to pick him up from a year at uni and starts the summer by telling me what is non-negotiable in my own home would get very short shrift. That is not the way to start a respectful conversation with the person who raised you and loves you the most in the whole world. That’s not to say he shouldn’t raise concerns and try to negotiate change, but that is not the way to go about it and I would tell him so - clearly, but firmly. You’ll be doing him a favour in the long term. If he thinks he can raise any concerns with a future partner by laying down the law as he has determined it, then he’ll be in for shock when they tell him to sling his hook.

He’s not an independent adult yet is the point. He’s sitting in mummy’s car, having been picked up from university. 😁 He’s welcome to get the train or stay in digs in the holidays - but he’s not doing that. He’s coming back to mummy’s house to enjoy all the benefits.

She needs to back off with the anxious mothering, but he needs to back off on his bumptious posturing. They can meet in the middle.

Exactly.

My uni son said something similar but not as extreme as ‘non-negotiable’ but that’s probably because we are a but more chill. But he basically told me not to ‘mummy’ him when he comes back during uni. I get where he is coming from and think this is basically what your son is also saying, but in a clunkier way. They are growing up.