struggling with my university-age son's boundaries when he comes home

[lurchersforever]

I am struggling to adjust to ds and the changes to our relationship now he is an adult and away at university but home in the holidays. I've always considered us to be close but something he said when I picked him up from university threw me and I would like an outside perspective on it. I think this is a bit waffly as I'm trying to give context.

As soon as he got in the car at pick-up, he said there was a non-negotiable for when he is at home. He said I wasn't to make a fuss about unimportant things and gave an example from when he was home for Easter and I questioned him at times about how he was spending his time and other fairly trivial stuff he was doing. He said that can't happen. I said while we were on non-negotiables he would have to help out at home over the summer and he said that was fine and he gets that but that if he didn't it wouldn't have the impact of stopping us having a functional relationship in the way it would if I kept up my behaviour. That seemed quite nuclear to me.

I get where he is coming from. I do get anxious about things (I have sought help for this) and really struggle to stop myself from spiralling if I think, for example, that he is making bad choices or that something may be wrong that he's not telling me. I'm divorced and he and ds2 spend 4 nights per fortnight at their dad's and always moan but pretty good-naturedly nowadays about going there. Dad does no parenting really so everything has always been on me.

Neither ds has ever given me any real trouble at all - excelled at school, good friends etc. I'm not that strict on chores but they do stuff I ask generally speaking notwithstanding a bit of nagging sometimes being needed. Ds1 is at Oxford and I know has worked incredibly hard this year, as he always does. He's had some great feedback, thinks the exams went well and tutors are mentioning post-grad already and have recommended some reading/home learning specifically for that over the summer, though he's only done 1 year.

He had a part time job while doing A levels and last summer - it wasn't huge and was based at his school in the canteen etc so he can't do it now and he doesn't plan to work. He says the cricket team he used to captain will pay him a bit to umpire and he may be able to get some shifts at their bar. Other than that he will be doing the home-learning and we are away for a couple of weeks in the summer. But he'll be home for more than 3 months so this is what I struggle with. But I know he's not lazy and he says he doesn't need money from me as he has saved some over the term (I top up loan and he has some money from GPs etc, Oxford is quite cheap). He has never asked for extra money. But I know there will be times when I say wtf are you doing? How does this fit with his non-negotiables?

He has also started now and again commenting on how snappy I was when the dc were young. Like I'll say something like how long it is taking in a shop and he'll say 'Oh, if I had said that when I was 7 you would have been like..' and then exaggerates me 'blowing up.' He is laughing at these times and being OTT but I'm starting to think he is looking back and thinking I was a shit mother and we will soon have no relationship. I did my best but I have a stressful job and I have no doubt I wasn't always as patient as I could have been but I also feel we had a lot of fun and spent a lot of time together. He never went through the being in his room all day phase so despite his busy social life we've spent so much time together talking etc. He also struggled at Oxford in the second term and had a lot of essay crises which meant a lot of 3am phone calls and tears, which obviously I supported him with.

What does all this mean for our relationship? I feel a bit sad and daunted. I think he wants to be treated like an adult but isn't quite there and I don't really trust my judgement.

You and your ds are moving into a new phase, you are both adults and are equals, but it is still your house.

If he teases you about your past parenting, just tell him you'll be interested to see how he copes with small children or mouthy teens 24 hours a day, and laugh it off. Don't take it to heart. You obviously did a reasonable job or your ds wouldn't be so successful and at ease with himself.

Stand your ground over chores, and make sure he does his share. It will still involve a few reminders but that's fairly normal. And then just leave him to get on with his summer. Relax.

Goodness me he's at Oxford - it's a pressure cooker in term. Let him chill.
He's becoming an adult - he's pointing out when your anxiety is affecting him and setting a boundary. Sounds like he's had counselling, sounds like he really loves you.
You say you've sought help in the past but what about now? If it affects your relationship with the key people in your life then get back to the gp pronto.
Don't go tit for tat - it doesn't matter how many late night essay dramas you've listened to.

My kids are a bit younger but I’m already struggling to let go of things so I am sure it will only get harder! I think you have been overly generous if you are paying his way to this extent - he can’t have it all ways at once. It’s great he’s opening a conversation about readjusting as two adults but that comes with changes for both of you.

"Non-negotiables" is just the vocabulary that's currently in vogue.

Basically he is saying that he is a fully fledged adult who's managed to live independently for a whole year and that he is going to find it intolerable if you continue to treat him like a small child and insist on knowing about his every move.

It's fine to say "what are your plans for the summer?" in a general sort of way. If he doesn't particularly have any at this point, then it's fine for him to figure it out as he goes along.

it's not for you to get exasperated about something that has no impact on you.

He's instantly accepted that he will help around the house, which is fantastic, and you might want to actually quantify that (e.g. you will cook twice a week, you are responsible for your own washing and you have to hoover once a week ... or whatever).

7.24am and you’ve kicked the boot in already!
Does it make you feel better? Ready to cope with the day ahead of you now you’ve tried to make someone feel worse about themselves?

This is probably the only summer where he can do nothing before summer internships and then the world of work and 40 hour weeks. Let him breathe. He is at Oxford, that is an intense term time. He has been away from home, living independently and he doesn't have to run anything by you decision making wise. This is where you can only guide you cannot parent, that job is done.

And you have done brilliantly, he is at Oxford. Look my own two children talk about things they remember and I just say, well let's see how you do at parenting in the future but this is all done in jest and not admonishment. They also know they cannot compare their childhood to mine with social service involvement so they know it could be so much worse.

What I also did was show them what it is like as a parent to smile and wave every 20 seconds when they were on a merry go round and they expect you to be watching for them every circuit. Literally smiled at them and waved on repeat every 10 seconds to make a point about all the boring shit I had to do as a parent because I loved them. It is all done in jest, you have to be able to laugh at those situations. Also uni is a mindfuck of my life is so much worse than yours situation.

Ds1 did a summer internship in year 2 summer then started work the following July so no real time off. Ds2 is also doing a year 2 summer internship that leaves him 3 weeks of holiday.

Doing nothing whilst on break from uni isn't lazy, it is a well deserved break. For mine they know they have to do their usual chores, their own laundry which they have done for years and let me know if they are out for the evening and whether they are here for meals. They also cook for the family too. There is respect both ways.

OP has not been "overly generous" - she's been doing what is expected of parents by the student loan system. If you are in England and your children have any aspirations to go to university, you might want to look this up before you get a nasty shock.

It sounds like he was harassed a touch when it should have been downtime, the fact he doesn't have to work in his uni down time is great! I had to work to cover costs of living in London for uni so I never had summers at my mums house. One day he'll be at work and may not return to home town as much, so enjoy this time with him.

As to the remarking on your past behaviour, as he's opened the door with a none negotiable chat, I'd open the door further and sit down with him. Say something like "I've noticed you bringing up my parenting choices when you were a child, and I'm sorry you remember negative experiences when I really wanted to give you a positive childhood entirely. But parenting isn't ever quite what you imagine starting out, and I'm only human, I didn't want to snap and its a shame that that is a prevailing memory for you but I hope you can accept that I'm sorry I did snap and we can move on now, as if you keep bringing it up I'm not sure what it can achieve now"

I had a very snappy and shouty mum and must say it's something that does my head in a bit as an adult, she still has those tendencies. It's quite stressful to be a child and wall on egg shells with a parent that gets angry and then calms down immediately after, don't know if you're coming or going .

It sounds as though you're expecting him to be working more over the summer? Oxbridge terms are exceptionally intense - why not let him be for the summer, if you can both afford it?

So many people can’t afford to pay thousands a year for their kids and those kids get part time jobs or if at Oxford (as I’m sure you’ll point out they’re not allowed to work) they work every hour in vacations to pay for themselves. So yes this young man is very lucky that his mum is funding him. It might be an expectation by the student loans company to avoid having to pay out too much money but it’s not a reality for so many.
And if some teenage boy talked to me about non-negotiables, I’d say I have some of my own. I’d also have a thing or two to say if he decided to repeatedly criticise my parenting.

There is a difference between not being able to afford to top up your DC's loan to the level expected by the student loan company, and being able to top it up (at least to some level) and choosing not to.

If you can afford to do so, then doing what is expected is not generous.
You may as well say that it's overly generous as a parent to sometimes take your children to theme parks or on holidays as many people can't afford to do that.

Just make sure he pulls his full weight at home @lurchersforever - don't you be rushing home from work to put the dinner on or start doing his washing for him.

I dont know your relationship or how justified his objections to your nagging are but Id be wary of setting up a little princeling that works hard term time (on your money) and then relaxes all summer (again all paid for by mummy). Is he paying you rent over the holidays? I also have a son at Oxbridge and one of the reasons its cheap is that they spend so much time at home. The terms may be intense but they have plenty of holiday to get over them - dont fall for the myth that Oxbridge students work so much harder than any others.

They do grow up and we have to respect that but whilst they live in your house on your money they are not independent adults. Full independence has a cost and, as yet, your ds is in no position to pay it.

I would take on board what he's saying about his childhood. Apologise that your anxiety made you snappy. Make amends regards that , first off

Regarding the summer holidays - be pleased that he's mature enough and articulate enough to talk to you about it.

Explain that you'll try your hardest not to stress and question. And make sure you DO this

However also talk to him about chores you'd like him to do over the summer and tell him that if you need to remind him about the chores that you're not nagging or being anxious. He has jobs to do. It's part of the deal

Well it’s been calculated in a way that people should technically be able to “afford” to top it up but for many it means making quite significant sacrifices. So I would say it’s generous for a single parent to top up the loan to the extent that the child doesn’t have to work.
But hey, it’s Mumsnet so of course we must take the side of the entitled 19 year old boy who dictates non-negotiables to his mum and takes every opportunity to criticise her parenting while he lies about all summer.

You sound as though you have raised a lovely young man - well done. And now he’s living more independently, he’s perhaps seeing his childhood with a different perspective. That’s fine. I fully admit I wasn’t the perfect parent and there are some times I regret, but I can say that and DC recognise I did my best. There’s no shame in being reflective. The love is still there.

I must admit I’d struggle more with the not working. It’s such a tough job market out there and the Oxford degree will only go so far. Even working in a bar will show work ethic and an internship would show even more. I do think I’d have a measured conversation about that, plant the seed and then leave it. But it’s certainly something he should be thinking about. Oxford may be tough in term of time but three months off is a blimmin’ long time.

What does all this mean for our relationship? I feel a bit sad and daunted. I think he wants to be treated like an adult but isn't quite there and I don't really trust my judgement.

It means he's growing up, for goodness' sake. And it doesn't happen overnight & he'll make errors and there'll be fits and starts.

Just like you did it yourself.

Not really. They don’t take into account how many dc you have do the fact I’ll have 3 dc in uni at the same time for 2 year cross over. Dd1 will need £850 per month top up, which is doable but 3x that is going to be very hard.

Oxford terms are 24 weeks of the year. And often there isn’t even teaching for all of the last one. So 28 weeks of the year (ie longer than six months) is available for work. So yes I’d be a bit 🧐 if my child declared they were going to do nothing beyond a bit of reading all summer. Also remember that he will have been mixing with some of the most entitled people known to man (think a youthful Boris Johnson and kids with trust funds and endless money) so there is a chance some of it will have rubbed off on him and he needs a bit of a reality check.

I expected to think he was out of order until I finished reading your post and I actually think he is very mature. It reads like whilst away he has realised how badly your anxiety affects him and has thought hard about some clear boundaries to stop your poor mental health damaging him. By non negotiable I would listen hard. I read it as he loves you very much, but if you keep putting him down he will need to step back from you to protect himself.

One thing I find telling is that you say he is going to do nothing over the holidays, that you are struggling with that and want to ask him WTF he is doing. Other posters have picked up that he's "doing nothing", but actually that's not true in the slightest. From your account he will be umpiring, hopes to do bar work and will be studying. That's a long way from nothing.

Are you always a glass half empty person, looking for the negatives? Could you use some counselling.

As others have said now is a time to enjoy your DS being home. Be clear on your housework expectations, but otherwise just step back and enjoy a more relaxed relationship, letting him continue to make good decisions about his life.

If I’m reading the situation right, it just sounds like you’re a bit of a nag, and now he’s gone to uni and experienced life without you saying ‘wtf are you doing’ every time he makes a ‘questionable choice’ (I’m assuming stiff like staying in bed til 10am / playing on his phone when theres other things to be done/ eating cake for lunch) he has realised that the world didn’t end, its no big deal, and he loves the freedom and independence to make his own choices and mistakes without being micromanaged by his mum. He’s realised that he’s really looking forward to coming home EXCEPT for the nagging, which he is dreading. He’s realised he is only going to enjoy being at home with you if you treat him like an adult and do not nag.

I would have a serious conversation about what it is you expect him to do around the house. But, this doesn’t extend to his free time.

So if the agreement is that he takes the bins out on sunday nightband you see him playing on his phone or whatever all sunday afternoon, you do not jump on him and remind him about the bins. You leave him. 95% chance he will do it, and if he does it at midnight then it doesnt matter. And if he forgets, that’s on him, and then you decide together how he can fix the situation - he will need to take the bins out bags to the dump himself. But let him find a solution to his own mistake. Give him space.

Honestly if my teen who I was funding through uni told me how I could and couldn't behave in my own home then they would be told they were free to stay elsewhere.
Non negotiables?? Who does he think he is?
And no he's not an independent adult, he's entirely reliant on his mum and grandparents cash and likely wouldn't be at Oxford at all without their help. He should be showing you nothing but gratitude OP and you shouldn't even have had to mention household chores, that should be a given.

Most teenagers go through a stage where as part of becoming an adult they look at the life they are leading and make judgements about how similar it is to how they want to be as an adult

teenager is peak time for “I don’t want to do that or be that kind of adult” and it does often come across as criticism, which it is.

but it’s the start of a process that leads to them getting out there and trying it for themselves and realising it’s much harder than it looks from a teen perspective

many women when they become mothers go to a lot of effort to avoid the mistakes their mum made - because they remember how it felt as a kid and they don’t want their kid to feel like that.

life being what it is and parenting being hard they usually make some mistakes (nobody is perfect) and as teens grow up and become adults they realise this and become more accepting of flaws and errors people make.

op, this is a phase, and like all phases it will pass.

both my kids have at various points said to me “mum how did you help me as a teen you weren’t a good parent” (although one of them being pathologically a truth teller said “mum apart from situation X, Y and Z how did you help me” and I had to try very hard not to laugh)

These years are tough a you’re both navigating a significant transitional period.

with my DC I made a bit of a joke about it - I tell them that for many years couldn’t go to the loo without them following me, I monitored everything they ate and that as they grew older I knew every friend and could account for every hour.

i tell them that as they’ve got older I’ve tried to relax over the fact that they got drunk in the park in fifth form and their terrible boyfriend in lower 6th (insert whatever minor hiccups you can now laugh about) but that it’s a big change seeing them independent so sometimes I overstep and it’s totally fine for them to call me out on that.

it sounds like you have a great relationship with your son and being honest and keeping it light is likely the way to go.

as a PP said “non negotiables” is just the language they use.

I also struggle with anxiety so I sympathise, op, but it sounds like you do need to work on this a bit. I think there’ can be a tendency to keep asking someone about their choices and behaviour as a way of managing your own anxious feelings, but this isn’t fair on them and ends up feeling like nagging and distrust, turning every interaction into a negative experience.

It sounds like he is doing really well. I would encourage you to recognise whether you’ve been questioning him so much as a sort of pressure valve for your anxiety. If so, spend some time recognising when you are feeling anxious and learning just to feel that feeling and then let it go. Not every feeling has to be acted on.

Of course there may be times in life when it will be appropriate to ask your son what his plans are or to speak up when you have concerns, but this is a course of action to be undertaken calmly, carefully and with consideration based on the facts- not as a repeated knee jerk response to your own anxiety.

It’s great that he has raised this with you.

If he's been at oxford he's likely been working his socks off so needs a break so please let him have one. His language is not ideal so maybe chat to him about how to negotiate with other adults and ideas of what he can say to get his point across in a more effective way. He's likely draw upon language he hears used at uni ie the non negotiables when doing academic work.