How should we handle avoiding one friend in my husband's group?

[miserablegrump]

So my now-husband moved to a new city several years ago for work, after struggling to make friends in a previous town he knew this was a priority for him in this new city. He quickly settled in with a lovely group of men in a similar life stage to him, and found the social outlet he'd been looking for. When I started dating my now-husband I was introduced to all his friends and found them nice, affable guys, and got along with their partners as well.

One friend, John, was a single dad and quite keen for my son to join play dates with his son. The kids don't really get on (different ages)

John's got a chequered relationship history, often having dramatic breakups and moving on very quickly. I found out he was accused of DV by a couple of former partners.

Both his parents passed away very suddenly in March last year and then he quickly formed a relationship with a new lady (within a week of his Dad's funeral) - Sue. Sue was pregnant and moved in within 3 months of their first date.

I just don't see any of this behaviour as stable, or healthy. I think John confuses intensity for intimacy, and I think beginning a new relationship and having a child with a stranger so fast is damaging to his existing child.

So, I don't wish to attend social engagements with John, and made this clear to my husband, who understands this choice.

However my absence at social gatherings has been noted and John and the wider friendship group are continually pressuring my husband to all spend time together.

I don't really want to cause drama, but I am just not interested in a friendship with this man or his new partner, when I so object to their life choices.

How do my husband and I navigate this with the wider group? Do we just explain to everyone else that I don't like John and won't be attending events he is at (noting this will probably get back to John and end my husband’s friendship with him, and cause a fraction in the wider group).

Finding a friendship group as a middle aged man is tough and it’s important to me that my husband has a social outlet, and so I don't mind if he spends time with John.

So far we have navigated this by me having other plans whenever the group hangs out together, but as they have frequent catch ups, this is becoming unsustainable.

Agree with every word of this

Some of the replies you have received have been mortifying @miserablegrump I have noticed that in general, posters on Mumsnet despise women who make a stand in real life on well, anything really. It says a lot about their lives away from their phones and is sad.

Really tricky situation you are in but I admire your stance.

I don't disagree either @FoldItIn

Morally, this is correct. I'm going to be blunt though...people are self-serving and shallow when it comes to social status. Most people by far do not side with who is right or even who they personally like the most, it will be the side that offers them the most in terms of security within the group.
It's sad but it's true. Life is a popularity contest.

I am not a social butterfly though I do have some really cracking friends. I am put off by the dynamic I have described above. My experience tells me that OP will not win this one and speaking out or creating waves will result in her dh being sad.

No they should not condone him...but they will, they will.

Ghastly isn't it?

I don't think there is any way to limit the impact on your DH but he's a grown up. He will have to own his choice to tolerate this. He is spending a hell of a lot of time with these people. Do you never just have a night in or have time on your own? Just say to the other couple that you'd happily just go out the 4 of them, or chat to the other wife and ask her out for a drink and ' leave the men to it'. I can't imagine ' Sue' will last long or want to hang out with strangers twice a week. She seems to have made some questionable decisions there I agree with you.

I agree @pictoosh it is ghastly.
I still maintain that generally, the posters on Mumsnet hate women who stand up for something. It could be anything, even an abusive partner. Some of the threads I have read since joining have been despicable.
You are right though and the older I get I notice the whitewashing of awful behaviour. Especially awful behaviour of good looking, sociable men.

I agree that being tolerant of others is important in life generally but this isn't a colleague or someone in a shop. OP has every right not to spend her social life with someone who thinks it is okay to brand exes 'crazy' and talk about how outlandish it was that multiple exes reported him for domestic violence.

Would I be judgy and intolerant to avoid socialising with someone with openly racist or misogynistic views? I think I would have the right to choose and I can tell you I would not be spending Friday nights with a mate of my husband who was sharing such viewpoints.

I'd be less polite than OP, who as far as I can tell, hasn't said anything to John. To my mind, if all your exes are crazy, controlling and fabricate domestic violence allegations, the common denominator is you and I've got other places to be. I think that's less judgement and more social time management.

DH wouldn't be keen to listen to too much of this though but luckily has a really good social circle of nice people. It would be hard to isolate yourself from a group based on the views of one person if that's not the case though, so I do see OP's husband's dilemma.

Didimum, would you want to spend a night out listening to John's perspective on his crazy and controlling exes? I couldn't be bothered myself, as I have friends without domestic violence allegations they are keen to discuss with whom I would have a laugh.

Yes, between the initial post making it sound like a much larger group, and 'I found out' morphing into 'he told me himself' in a later post, it's confusing and drip feed-y.

My advice, for what it's worth, is just to be honest about your feelings and opt out. Then the other (2?) couples can make their own decisions.

Genuinely, are you really in your thirties? You come across as considerably older. Most of the people I know in their early 30s at least, a quiet tolerant of others' lifestyles - I'm not including DV in that - and you sound extremely judgmental.

You don’t need to hang out with them even f you are at the same event. Just say a polite hello and then busy yourself in conversation with someone else. I think you’re making this bigger than it needs to be

The events coming up are big ones such as weddings though so the original group size isn’t really relevant. There will be loads of people to chat to and no need to spend time with the guy! Smaller group things are easy to avoid

As someone who had a partner who refused to ever socialise with my friends because he was judgemental about some of their husbands, (for no good reason) I feel sorry for your husband tbh. It's really hard to always be at gatherings where you are the only person there without a partner. I'm not saying you should always go, but if you care about him can't you make the effort sometimes and just keep away from John? Although I do think you're being a bit judgemental, his choices don't affect you personally. I know you're happy for your husband to keep being friends with him, and you understand it's important to him. And of course couples can have their own friends and socialize separately as well. But it's all about balance. I felt my ex didn't care about me at all, because he never made that effort for me.

Get over yourself.

Nobodies asking you to marry the guy.

Stop creating unnecessary drama and risk ruining an established friendship group. Just keep the guy at arms length. No need for all this hand wringing.

I agree.

Grow up he’s never been nasty to you ! Would you rather the girl he’s dating get an abortion so you don’t have to judge them. Honestly I think the one ruining your husbands chance at friends is you….

The man himself has admitted to DV. With THREE different partners. He is a serial abuser of women, and Sue will be the next one who is scared, crying, and calling the police.

If my H would hang around with a man like this, I would lose ALL respect for him.

This H needs to be challenged frankly. Who gives a flying shit whether this guy is his "friend"? The single biggest reason that DV occurs at ASTRONOMICAL levels in this country is because men do not socially punish men who commit it. No, they say NOTHING. OP's H no doubt will continue to hang around this creep and manfully overlook all his horrible behaviour, simply because H needs friends.

If he does, he cannot claim to be a decent man. Because he is complicit to DV.

And the thing is, the H will be hurting HIMself: if he hangs about with an utter shit like this man, he doesn't make space for new friends who DON'T test his integrity and who WON'T be really problematic down the line - those new friends won't be the ones who are brutalising yet another poor woman, causing H to yet again have to pretzel himself to manage his cognitive dissonance, so that he can continue to believe that he's a "Nice Guy".

He hasn’t admitted it he said that his ex said was saying it surely if it was true he wouldn’t admit it ??? That wouldn’t make sense it’s not going around about DV he literally said it himself

Just go to some of the gatherings, and don’t sit near him.
OP you sound really judgy. Each of us has our own life- learning journey’s, and it’s not up to you to judge other people’s .

I think how you've reacted to this particular point says a lot - I don't think what they said was unkind?
I too think you are being a little judgey but aren't we all. We know what we like and what we don't in a person so that part is fine, and I get how you feel hearing about the DV but judging a person on how long it's taken them to have a child etc. isn't very fair, everyone's different.
I don't know though why you can't still go to events planned in the group, no matter how small. You don't have to spend the whole night talking to him/them - maybe there's someone who doesn't think you're their favourite person and that's OK too.

Quite frankly I think you might have to suck it up. There is nothing to say you wouldn’t deeply offend his new friends by telling them you don’t like one of them.

if my circle of friends made a new friend and then her partner told us he wasn’t willing to spend time with one of us, the whole group would be up in arms and that new friend would be out.

You are assuming it will be awkward for you at worst - actually the worst could be the group decides they won’t be friends with your DH because of his judgy wife.

YABVU
You are being extremely judgmental.

Don’t cause problems for your DH, just keep him at arms length.

It’s not difficult for a grown adult to navigate.

I would just spend time with them as a group and try and put my thoughts aside.

If, as I first thought, it were a big group then I would wonder why you weren't just going along while avoiding John and his new GF. But in a group of 3 couples, not liking one couple is a big deal for anything regular.

I think your DH needs to suggest some boys only trips and you can invite the other couple over for couples stuff. But DH is probably going to have to be a bit upfront about you not liking John.

For what it's worth, I would be judgmental as fuck about John too. 3 women accusing him of DV? Mostly like he's abusive, but if he isn't he's constantly picking unstable women and that's it's own red flag.

Actually you seem a bit stupid to only read about a couple jumping straight into a planned pregnancy and missing the whole self confessed domestic violence aspect.

This thread is bonkers. Wtf is wrong with the respondents who actually think op is judgemental for not wanting to socialise with someone who not only uses violence against his partners but talks about it proudly and dismissed his victims as crazy exes.

I saw that you’re not in the UK and so can’t do or encourage a Clare’s Law application, but you could kill two birds with one stone and tell this new GF what you do know (multiple crazy former partners accusing him of DV…yeah, right). It gives her a fair warning, whether she heeds it or not, and is also sufficiently nuclear to excise yourself from the group catch-ups!

Does John know you don't like him, if not, why don't you make it obvious to him (just not in front of the wider group as you will just make everyone uncomfortable) If he asks you direct questions, just go with yes or no answers and not engage in any meaningful way. You said John told you all his Ex's are crazy - that's the kind of opportunity for you to hit back with a comment of 'wow, what are the chances of that John - all three of them are crazy but you're the sane one!?' He'll soon get the vibe that you don't like him. I think for the sake of your husband, you should just accept there is an asshole in his group and leave it at that. It could be worse, your DH could be saying 'he's a grand fella' and disagreeing with you - he's not doing that, he can see that he's not 'best friend' material, but is still a part of the group. By the way, what do the other women in the group think of him?

This. I really don't see why his relationship choices affect you, unless you're insanely jealous. I read this thinking that he'd tried to get overly friendly or made a pass at you, which was awkward. Not your are not only judging him, you don't even want to be in a room with him. Him and Sue are adults, they can make their own mistakes, it's none of your business. If I were your DH I would be fuming that your judgement attitude is damaging friendships in the group.