How should we handle avoiding one friend in my husband's group?

[miserablegrump]

So my now-husband moved to a new city several years ago for work, after struggling to make friends in a previous town he knew this was a priority for him in this new city. He quickly settled in with a lovely group of men in a similar life stage to him, and found the social outlet he'd been looking for. When I started dating my now-husband I was introduced to all his friends and found them nice, affable guys, and got along with their partners as well.

One friend, John, was a single dad and quite keen for my son to join play dates with his son. The kids don't really get on (different ages)

John's got a chequered relationship history, often having dramatic breakups and moving on very quickly. I found out he was accused of DV by a couple of former partners.

Both his parents passed away very suddenly in March last year and then he quickly formed a relationship with a new lady (within a week of his Dad's funeral) - Sue. Sue was pregnant and moved in within 3 months of their first date.

I just don't see any of this behaviour as stable, or healthy. I think John confuses intensity for intimacy, and I think beginning a new relationship and having a child with a stranger so fast is damaging to his existing child.

So, I don't wish to attend social engagements with John, and made this clear to my husband, who understands this choice.

However my absence at social gatherings has been noted and John and the wider friendship group are continually pressuring my husband to all spend time together.

I don't really want to cause drama, but I am just not interested in a friendship with this man or his new partner, when I so object to their life choices.

How do my husband and I navigate this with the wider group? Do we just explain to everyone else that I don't like John and won't be attending events he is at (noting this will probably get back to John and end my husband’s friendship with him, and cause a fraction in the wider group).

Finding a friendship group as a middle aged man is tough and it’s important to me that my husband has a social outlet, and so I don't mind if he spends time with John.

So far we have navigated this by me having other plans whenever the group hangs out together, but as they have frequent catch ups, this is becoming unsustainable.

In addition to what everyone else has said, how is this the question you’re asking rather than how can I handle my DH when he insists on being best buddies with someone whose behaviour I find so reprehensible that I don’t want to be in the same room as them?

I can be just as judgemental as the rest of them, and I wouldn’t want to hang out with a man with the smell of DV hanging over him. But I’d be really concerned if my DH did, even if he was the last potential friend standing.

You have misread - Op's H is not the one who admitted to DV allegations from 3 exes.

And yes, your post does sound like you're excusing the legions of men abusing their wives and children. The H's friend told OP and her H off his own bat that his three exes are "crazy". That's a massive red flag.

"John is, he told me he has 3 exes accuse him of DV, but they were all crazy."

You can’t, because you are being weird and awkward. You are also being judgemental AF. You could go along because it’s important to you DH and just don’t be super friendly with them, but you are choosing to martyr yourself and make your DH’s life harder on the basis of not a lot of unverified info and a heap of judgment .

What's unverified?

Martyr? Do you understand the meaning of this word?

In fact, OP's H and her friends are encouraging OP to martyr herself, and - happily - she feels uninclined to climb up onto that cross.

Good on her.

And the bloke himself saying that THREE exes have accused him of DV is the biggest red flag around that he is an abusive man. Men like this should not be given the benefit of the doubt, because they cause enormous and often life-changing and long-resonating harm to women (and children).

Op is right to choose not to deal with this man. He is trouble, and he will bring nothing but turmoil to everyone who hangs with him. Including OP's H. OP is well out of it.

Oh, that is a shame! You say that there is no equivalent where you are OP, but could you try calling the police, and telling them that you're concerned for the safety of this woman and her unborn baby, because her partner has openly told you that he's been violent to three previous partners, but brushed it off as the ex's all being crazy, however you're worried that not all three of these women could be so crazy as to accuse him of DV if there is no truth to it, so you wonder if there is anyway they can check him out, and possibly warn his partner, if she is likely to be in danger?

If not, then could you, or your DH have a quiet word with her, tell her what John said to you both, and say you're a bit worried as it seemed a strange thing to say. You could then ask her if she knows what really happened, and if he's talked to her about it, or was he just winding you up, and then see what reaction you get? However much you dislike this woman, and question her judgement, I couldn't not do anything in your shoes, as I would never forgive myself if he was violent toward her, and hurt her and her unborn child. I'd suggest having a chat with your DH, and make sure that he understands just how dodgy this guy's comments actually were, as he may not have taken what he said seriously.

I'm glad you liked my suggestions for ways to get out of going along to the get togethers, hope it helps. Have a nice weekend.

Why does your dh choose to associate with a man who assaults women?

Well it would be much easier if you could give up being a judgmental person sticking your nose in where it isn’t needed.

this is all a massive So What? Are his sins really so much worse than yours?

Yeah maybe? No one has ever called the cops on me or accused me of DV.

@miserablegrump in your op you say your dh moved to a new city and made these friends several years ago. Later in the thread you say they’ve been friends for 15 years.

Both can’t be true?You are being inconsistent.

He made friends with a couple while working overseas in his youth.

They've ended up in the same city as us now.

“So my now-husband moved to a new city several years ago for work, after struggling to make friends in a previous town he knew this was a priority for him in this new city. He quickly settled in with a lovely group of men in a similar life stage to him, and found the social outlet he'd been looking for. When I started dating my now-husband I was introduced to all his friends and found them nice, affable guys, and got along with their partners as well.”
@miserablegrump thats very different to what you said in your op.
Your op also mentioned “all” his friends as if it was a bigger group. Now it’s just two.

So it’s just 2 other couples?
No don’t go.
There is no way I would be condoning the behaviour of a wife beater, never mind the other stuff.
Your dh needs to tell the other male that John is a wife beater and that is the reason you don’t want to socialise with him.

I'd say if you have your own friends then that's easier for DH to make excuses as he can just say "OP likes to go out with her pas on a friday". And as you've said they meet every Friday that makes that simple.
Wedding are also easy as you can just go the wedding and be civil and polite and it's a large gathering of folks so no need to chat to DV guy much.
So the issue seems to be holiday invites and other "special occasions". Are there occasions that you can orchestrate that would not involve much interaction. Suggest you all go to a show or theatre or something. That way you are there but not having to interact with DV guy.
Just decline the holiday saying you prefer to holiday as a family. Also easy.

I think you're overthinking it really. I was single for many years with a friendship group of all couples. I just went out solo with all the others being in couples. It was fine. My DP can't usually make half of our outings nowadays because he lives further away. Again, no one bats an eyelid. Is DH simply struggling with what to say or does he actually care? Could he confide in the other couple and say look OP doesn't like DV guy so please don't suggest meetups

You sound so incredibly and unhealthily intolerant, OP. You can’t get on with everyone and you can’t like everyone’s choices, but that’s life. You can’t manufacture a bubble around yourself full of select people only at all times.

I would take a hard look in the mirror at this point because you are also displaying some very unhealthy behaviours which make you unlikeable and unenjoyable to be around. This level of intolerance is a very poor attitude to show your child.

Jesus Christ what have you read here to give you that perspective she doesn’t like a man who has commited DV. That is not a character failing. You sound like you have projected your own traits onto the OP here.

She had a gossipy conversation with him about his exes. He has not had DV convictions nor formal allegations.

Do you live under a rock? Or are you a man?

If a man outright tells someone - completely of his own accord - that he has been accused of DV against THREE of his exes and had the cops called on him several times and he then concludes that THEY are all crazy - the chance that he is an unrepentent abuser of women is sky high. It is the NUMBER ONE red flag of a man who hurts women. EVERY DV centre says this.

DV is an epidemic in the UK. 1 in 10 women (and often their children too) were subjected to DV last year. Men are extremely dangerous to women and children. The ones who have clearly repeatedly committed DV should be avoided like the plague, including by decent men.

You sound like a real girls girl.

The problem is that the OP based most of her opening posts around her disapproval of the fact that this man got into a relationship and got the woman pregnant very quickly, and soon after his parents died. “Oh, and three women accused him of domestic violence” was practically an afterthought. That’s colouring a lot of the responses.

I think you have to make a decision about whether you want to support your husband in his friendships or whether you want to be true to your values. You can’t do both. TBH when John was telling you about the crazy exs and the physical situation and the police call outs, that would have been the time to speak out yourself. I would have said: “John, I’m really concerned you said that. You’re telling us that you have hit three of your former partners and police have been involved. That’s not normal and it’s very worrying. I’m also concerned about the effect this is having on your DC. I’m really finding this v disturbing and difficult to deal with”. Then he knows what you think and where you stand. It may have given your DH the confidence to also call him out. And the other couple may have backed you up too.
I think saying nothing and then just withdrawing from the group is going to cause more confusion and upset.
I think you have a number of choices now. You can retrospectively say how you feel but you need to tell the whole group including John to his face. “I’ve not been joining you at the pub recently because I’m struggling with something John said etc etc”. Tell it matter of factly and put the ball in their court. You can’t fix this alone.
Alternatively, you can speak privately to the other woman in the group (not Sue) and tell her how you feel. Does she feel the same way? Do you know? Explain you are not comfortable meeting up with John but would like to continue seeing her and her DH. See what she says.

Then you and your DH need to work at building some more likeminded friends who are couples. Your DH needs to work on establishing more individual friendships with people who have more integrity. Who were the couple who came to your wedding? Are they more of a fit with you?
John is soon going to be the father of a newborn. That should change the group dynamics. If it doesn’t and he’s still out drinking twice a week that’s another worry. Keep an eye out for John’s DP at that point. New babies can trigger violent men.
I don’t blame you for judging John and not want to socialise. I don’t like the attitude to women of one of my husband’s v old friends but there has never been any hint of DV. Just old fashioned sexist attitudes. I call it out if I hear it. But I don’t socialise with him. My DH says he understands my feelings and calls it out too but he is an old, old friend and he is v fond of him. He is an interesting guy in other ways so if I find myself at a party talking to him there is no problem. I can be civil. But the first hint of sexism and I speak out and move away.
You need to find your voice and your courage.

What are John's life choices anything to do with you op ?
You are going to alienate your husband from this friendship circle with your pious attitude.
Just go to the social events with the group and maintain your friendships with the other girls. You don't have to be bosom buddies with this couple.. just be cordial.
Sounds like your dh has found a group of friends he enjoys being with so support him in that .

What exactly is your value here? That people can’t have long term and solid relationships or be good parents off the back of a short term relationship? Long term relationships also don’t always provide children stability, or necessarily guarantee good parenting. Is that really a value or is it just an opinion? Honestly, you sound a bit stupid - not just judgemental (which you put your hand up to very readily). Being so knowingly and extremely judgemental (and unforgiving / intolerant) is normally the outcome of the unexamined mind IMO

As a DV survivor I really appreciate you not wanting to socialise with someone who has DV accusations against him. In my experience multiple exs have accusations there is something there.
In my opinion other friends that hang out with these men are supporting this guy and showing that they condone the behaviour.

My exs friends actually warned me when things got hectic that he had a pattern of controlling and abusive behaviour. They warned me to make a safe plan to leave. Once I fled the relationship, they rallied around him and no doubt he'll do the exact same thing to his next partner and they'll condone the behaviour again.

So, I really don't think you're being unreasonable and I really appreciate someone drawing a line and saying they don't want to socialise with someone who is abusive in any way.

This has been quoted a few times, I know...but yes, this poster nails it.

Fine, you don't like him. That's understandable.
Taking a stance over it is self-important and will cause problems for both you and your dh. The group will pick John because he's an instigator and organiser while you'll be left to drift.

Newsflash...most friendships groups have at least one utter twat in them. Good friends do not come in a multi-pack as much as we all like to pretend it's all chums together.
To someone else, the twat is you.

If your husband is enjoying the group, leave it the fuck be.