I think I have to leave my husband

[PlaidJane]

I have had a nice little life the past few years with my DH, we get on well he’s a nice guy generally and we have an enjoyable time together. He’s quite insecure in his looks and not overly confident so I do feel I fall into the pattern of being a bit motherly, you know giving him reassurance. He says a lot of the time that I’m out of his league. This isn’t wildly attractive I’m sure some people would agree and I can find it annoying as I am not that shallow, I want someone who makes me feel loved and is nice that’s all.

I’d say the issue in our relationship up until now is that I feel like I am putting on a perfect persona all the time as he finds it hard to cope with me in any other raw format version. He gets defensive and upset if I have any Big Feelings - even if they aren’t related to him at all. Therefore I don’t share many big or small feelings with him. Hence the plodding along.

Over time I recognise I feel friendly affection for him with our lives tied together in a house and joint assets etc and I wasn’t going to disrupt anything.

I am a people pleaser and I find it so hard to let people down or put myself first.

I have been working on a short term project with another man for some months now which has ended. During this time we got along great, but I didn’t think anything much of it as I knew the project would end and mostly thought just this guy is a nice guy.

I don’t think we spoke emotionally or overshared our personal lives more than normal colleagues, we worked well as a team and had good fun in the process. As the project came to an end and we said goodbye, we both simultaneously appeared to realise we had formed some kind of feelings for each other.

I assume this is what happens to movie stars on film sets or strictly shows, when you spend a lot of time with someone in close proximity. So I’m not sure it’s real at all. I got worried I was in limerance so was working on detachment

We have had one honest in person conversation about this where we shared exactly identical experiences and thoughts about each other - it’s so weird and uncanny. I feel like we just wanted to check we were not going mad and deluded in our own minds? These moments in our minds were totally identical realisations or memories, matched each other in sync. This has never happened to me before. We both admitted we had grown attracted to each other physically but more than that, we liked each others personalities and couldn’t stop thinking about the other. It’s affecting both our sleep and appetites. We have agreed we need to detach because it’s very dangerous

Running off together is ridiculous, this isn’t some big romantic movie, also this is an awful thing to do to my husband. I’d rather be single right now and have none of this hassle I just want to run away from everything and everyone

I think I’m having a midlife crisis of some kind and I have to leave my DH but I don’t know where to even begin to detangle our complex finances. We don’t have any savings and a huge mortgage and the market is terrible right now for selling. I also feel sick at the thought of telling him I’m not romantically in love with him as it would break his heart.

I need advice how to navigate this as I’m not doing a very good job.

So he’s been avoiding me for days now, apart from to get angry at me. So it’s been very hard to have any kind of reasonable conversation where I feel he’s listening and taking anything on board.

These avoidant phases used to make me feel horribly anxious but they don’t anymore. They make me feel unimportant and uncomfortable because nothing is on my terms with my needs

I stepped forward to say let’s call this a day and I want space on my terms (not in a punishment way, just I don’t want to keep rehashing this with him I need to go speak to friends and process my feelings when I’m not so anxious) and he’s done a complete 180 and desperately trying to patch things up as he has decided he loves me and wants to be with me forever. He expresses this in an impatient way where he just wants to rewind time and go back to how it used to be. I’m not sure he understands how crap and disorientating this is for me to spend so long devalued to then suddenly become his most prized possession

I’ve spent ages explaining how that’s not realistic to go back to anything, plus I am not sure I want to do this, because I don’t want to keep being in this cycle anymore and we should focus on ourselves as a priority, not us as a couple. but he is obviously not happy with this because it’s not what he wants and is trying to say he will change and that he’s putting in the work and this is what he would need and he wants to open up now.

I am tired. I don’t have the energy to keep rebuilding myself emotionally so I’m checked out.

I don’t know how to communicate that I think my romantic feelings have gone because I expect he will do big gestures for romantic dates to reignite them. I don’t see him in the same way I used to. My kids have experienced him sulking and they are not happy about it, and how he’s treating me.

I don’t know how to break up or leave. I can’t leave physically because I have nowhere to go, I don’t know what words to use as he tries to talk me round or confuses me. I also feel bad for leaving him when he’s so down and struggling.

You said he has refused counselling previously but may agree now if you say this is the only option left for him or the marriage ends. It sounds like he is constantly headworking you ...It could help for you both to see a relationship counsellor at Relate together. It could help to have a person like that who is not emotionally connected to either of you to help with this.

His reaction to the situation is not your responsibility. Of course he’s ’down’ his trophy wife has realised he’s a twat and that’s on him, not you!

You now have to reinforce your boundaries and keep saying ‘No’.

I know you keep saying that you have nowhere to go - but seriously until you do nothing will change. I know he hasn’t been violent to you but if he was, what would you do? His mental abuse of you is no different.

Can you get an Airbnb for a couple of months as a starter? It seems like staying in the house is not an option and you need to find a way to remove yourself from the situation now before his abuse escalates.

I’m going to be a bit harsh here - don’t bother with counselling, it’ll take months to arrange and it’ll not change your feelings towards him. See a solicitor now to work out how to extract yourself financially.

You can do this!!

I don’t want to go to counselling with him.

I agreed to go for a walk with him this morning with my intention of telling him straighter about how I feel.

He asked me to explain why I said I don’t trust him with my feelings as he didn’t understand. I explained that he can minimise my feelings and project them back on to me.

he spent the next 30 mins animatedly defending himself and talking about himself. I kept asking him to stop deflecting everything back on to me. He was attributing a lot of these issues to my anxiety. The only time he stopped talking was when I burst into tears, then he tried to use this as a chance to hug me, which I declined.

He has gone out now to give me space (himself I think more than me)

All of these circular intense conversations sound so pointless and exhausting…what’s the point? You don’t seem to love or like each other very much at all. He’s a prick, that’s a given.

I think the time for all this never ending introspection is over, and you need to make a move. There is an answer to where you will go and how you will get there, put your energy in to that instead. The marriage is dead.

Agree ...if you don't want to go to relationship counselling neither of you are invested in saving your relationship. What is hooking you in to this neverending unresolving dialogue?

Agree, don’t go to counselling with this man. waste of time and money and will stall the inevitable: your marriage is dead.

Don’t get into another circular discussion unless you want to revive it. Don’t let him browbeat you with your supposed shortcomings. And find somewhere to stay as a top priority. I think you will see things a lot clearer when he’s not headworking you day in day out.

@PlaidJane echoing the pp who say there is no point in these repeated POINTLESS conversations. Stop these discussions - you two are incompatible and both unhappy, your dc are unhappy - end it. With or without his ‘permission’. You each have different views and they don’t match and never will.
See a solicitor and find out where you stand re divorcing. Then it’s what can be done re housing and finances. Do you currently own or rent? Small steps and you will get there. Sooner would be better for all of you.

I am seeing a lot of the disordered thinking of someone with vulnerable narcissistic traits here.

First, what happened to his decision it was all over and he was out of it? That was only a few days ago? and now he’s done a complete 180 and desperately trying to patch things up as he has decided he loves me and wants to be with me forever but he's also been avoiding me for days now, apart from to get angry at me.

He expresses this in an impatient way where he just wants to rewind time and go back to how it used to be. Of course he does. Becuase that was when his life was good.

I’m not sure he understands how crap and disorientating this is for me to spend so long devalued to then suddenly become his most prized possession He does not. And never will. Because he doesn't believe you were.

it’s not what he wants and is trying to say he will change and that he’s putting in the work and this is what he would need and he wants to open up now. This is bollocks. what "work" is he putting in? It's only been 10 days so even if it was true that he wants to, it's early days. Has he booked to see a therapist? Has he sat down to consider what he can/shoudl change? Of course not.

My kids have experienced him sulking and they are not happy about it, and how he’s treating me. This is actually excellent news. You said that your famiy loved him. I did wander about the DC as the actulaly live with him and would have seen his manipulative and controling behaviours. In particular the moodiness and sulking. I wouldn't be surprised if they have never loved him as much asyou think they did.

I don’t know how to break up or leave. I can’t leave physically because I have nowhere to go, This is a huge problem, yes, but it CAN be solved. Start thinking about what yo uwould need to leave and speak to a lawyer about assets etc. Your DC are adults, so if they're not contributing financially, perhaps it's time for them to do so whiel you all get out the house.

I don’t know what words to use as he tries to talk me round or confuses me.
Narcissistic word salad.

I also feel bad for leaving him when he’s so down and struggling. Yes, and unfortunately, his feelings are real. But it's not your responsibility and the fact that he can't and won't see that is sad, but also not your responsibility.

It sounds like an episode of Dawkins Creek with all the talking.

As Harry Styles would say ‘if he is not making you happy, put him in the bin’

Good luck x

The colleague is a red herring.

You're in an abusive relationship where his needs are met at the expense of yours. This will shrink you smaller and smaller over time.

Deal with this first.

Sorry, just read your updates. You're on the right track.

He wants you to do all the emotional work on his behalf.

This guy is incapable of the sort of relationship you deserve.

I hope you find a way forward ASAP.

Unpopular notion, but suggest you talk this through on ChatGPT/Copilot. It's brilliant for identifying, and naming, relationship patterns. Very helpful for understanding the dynamics of a situation and what a bind you're in, through no fault of your own.

Good luck OP 💐

This is not a negotiation and you do not have to convince him.

what you need to do is contact a women’s group and get help organizing your escape. Someone will have resources or new ideas for how you can do that.

Don’t waste time trying to explain things to him. He simply doesn’t care—and won’t be made to care—how difficult or unpleasant this is for you. Dissociate and put your feelings and your true self into a safe place and only interact with him calmly and transactionally. That will be the safest for you. This phase of pretending, on his part, to win you back will stop and he will go back to hurting you. Look up the cycle of abuse, this is just one sixth of the wheel—the apology ohase—and he will rapidly tire of it when it isn’t instantly rewarded by your compliance.

Jesus do not do that! Get real world help.

Really? It worked for me in similar circumstances. It's excellent at objectively describing patterns of behaviours, far more accurately than a human conversation achieves. That's not to say there is no place for human support, but I'm all for making the most of the tools available.

...plus, your use of unspaced em-rules - awkward to type, and not a UK punctuation convention - suggests you're no stranger to AI yourself 😁

No, sorry. I am a 65 year old American woman whose writing style predates AI. The em dash is a sign of AI because AI was trained on real people’s writing. I reccomend against using chatgpt because it is deskilling the generation that uses it and some people become very dependent on it for companionship. This has led to AI induced or facilitated psychosis in some people.

Ahhh, sorry - you being American makes sense of it!

I don't think we can assume that everyone who uses AI is an idiot, just because some people are. It's incredibly useful at untangling relationship dynamics in an objective way.

People aren’t idiots but can be very vulnerable. Also differentAI models can be more or less dangerous.

The issue has been pretty well canvassed here. Does OP need more help spotting patterns? She needs real world support to get out. And she needs help avoiding his enmeshing and controlling ways. But she can do that by staying clear of these conversations with him

I take your point, but OP doesn't sound vulnerable in that sense. I'm not sure how dangerous you think Copilot/ChatGPT could be to someone like her in these circumstances. Yes, she needs real-world support, and is clearly seeking it. However, the instant feedback from AI can actually be really useful in dealing with manipulative people because it reflects things back without distortion. It also offers useful insights, distilled to a concise form that's easy to understand and, if they resonate, work from.

When you're dealing with someone like her DH, conversations can be incredibly confusing; he designs them that way, to destabilise her. I see no harm in using AI as a very useful sanity check in the moment, but I accept that you view it differently!

I just want advice how to get out, I do see I am stuck in these circular discussions, there has been 3 big emotional ones today already, still a long period of the day left to go. It’s just me and him stuff together in a Groundhog Day. I escape him for a bit, he sends me long texts opening up. I try to talk to him to tell him I want to leave. He talks at me for ages and cries. I freeze up. I feel frozen

Your freeze response is a very natural trauma response to the overwhelming push over your boundaries by this extremely narcissistic person.

In trauma work “freezing” is an avoidant strategy. The body of a person or an animal will collapse and conserve energy—thats what feigning death is, btw, when animals do it or fainting when children do it—it conserves energy until you can escape.

I really don’t think this is easy, all ghe more so because its hard for outsiders or family members to recognize this begging/pleading/whining/desperate style as ultimately just another kind of abuse. But it is. It is extremely abusive for a person not to take your “no” for an answer.

Cut down on interactions. Grey rock him (look it up). Either ignore texts ir give them a thumbs up emoji or just “got it.”

You should disengage as much as you can and reduce responses to brief and pro forma stock phrases “I have said what I need to. This relationship is over. We need to settle up and separate.” On a loop.

He will escalate and try involving other people. Just hold firm and don’t bother JADE-ing with them either . That means don’t bother Justifying, Arguing. Defending or Explaining. If you have to rebut the gossips and flying monkey types just say “He knows that our relationship is over. I am sorry he has tried to involve you.”

Call women’s aid, call a solicitor, go outside the relationship for concrete support for next steps. Avoid him as much as possible because his style will be to cling to you and try to save himself by drowning you, like an incompetent swimmer grabbing on to a more competent one and drowning you both.

Stop trying to explain to him why his shit behaviour is shit. Want to know the sercret? He KNOWS what he is doing. It is deliberately designed to knock you off balance. That is the INTENTION.

He wants your head frazzled so you don’t leave.
He wants you stuck on the merry go round of explaining to him why his behaviour is hurtful. And, of defending yourself. That’s what abusers do to keep you looking inwards. For “the right words”. There are no right words.

Because he doesn’t want there to be.

There are no right words to stop a lion from chewing on your leg. It WANTS to chew on your leg.

Ok so, we need to start thinking PRACTICALLY about leaving.

What do you need to get him gone\what do you need to leave, what do you need to keep him away etc…

You say you have nowhere to go. What is the housing situation? Owned, rented, in whos name? What is the family/friend situation? (support network)
Do you work? Do you have any savings in an account if your own?

Have You looked into your financial entitlements should you separate from him?
eg: child support

Have you spoken to a solicitor (privately and without him knowing) about what they need for a divorce and what you need to find out?

Have you spoken to support organisations like women’s aid?

These are all practical steps you can take.

Also, never ever go to councilling with an abuser. They will twist it.

All of this

Stop engaging and Grey Rock him now. He will see any engagement as a positive step. His emotions are being used to manipulate you so don’t engage, don’t explain yourself any further. It’s not worth your energy.

first thing Monday morning call a solicitor and start extracting yourself from this marriage. Things will be hard financially initially and you will have to sell your house, but you will be free and live a life without control and abuse.

keep yourself safe