The Dating Thread 58 - will you swoon in June? 🌸🌼🌸

[Nosdacariad]

The Rules:
-The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating
-Develop a thick skin
-Do not invest emotionally too soon
-It’s all BS until it actually happens
-Trust your gut instinct
-People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault
-Know your worth
-If it's not fun, stop
-Loo update is mandatory
-No dating the thread
-Treat others as you'd like to be treated
-Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with
-The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future

• If you're wondering if you're being too picky/should give another chance after the second chance/should try harder - the answer is invariably NO! You're not and you shouldn't. If this, now, is as good as it's going to get, the A game, then do you want what comes next?!

-OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item*

Advice needed please

I've been dating someone for 6 weeks. All was going well, 7 dates and the last 4 have been alternating at eachothers and overnights.

Messaging has been consistent daily but not constant all day.

He was at mine on Monday and we were chatting about him being single for 6 years. He said “well I’ve dated a few people to about 4 months because that’s when you know” and that one of them had been really upset when he ended things because she liked him a lot more than he liked her.

I thought about it and messaged him on Tuesday to say I’d been thinking about it and it had sort of landed as a “timeline” and that I prefer things to be more organic and would rather someone say at any point if they aren’t feeling it. He responded saying he wanted to clarify he had no doubts about us and we weren’t on a timer. We messaged normally for the rest of the day.

But yesterday and today his messaging is noticeably cooler to the point where I just responded with a smile emoji to the last message he sent early this afternoon and I haven’t heard from him since. I’m supposed to be going to his on Saturday, he hasn’t mentioned it.

Thoughts?

Just been reading the chat about swipes and matches and coincidentally I saw this post on Reddit last night giving info on how to get your swipe stats from Bumble. Basically how many left and right swipes you make, and how many in return.

Hopefully my screenshot of the info has attached! I’ve also attached my own stats…..it’s take into consideration the 3 different times I was using Bumble over a 6 year period, probably about 5-6 months of swiping.

Thanks @empirebiscuits12 I had no idea you could do that. My data is a little worrying!
Yes 31
No 1149
Swiped on me
Yes 422
This should be only from the last few weeks as my new profile is logged in differently to previous ones.
I’m guessing the 422 who said yes to me were not the same as the 31 men I chose to swipe right on 😂
I’m far too picky. Or the pool is particularly murky near me.

@Brightbluesomething thank you for your sound advice. I know there is nothing wrong with me as such, but the apps harm my wellbeing. Maybe more in person socialising is needed.

@Midnight19 Men generally just converse differently to women, with exceptions of course. I’ve in hindsight realised that I’m ’male socialised’, too, so I find that a lot more normal and converse in that way, but there is a difference.

Obviously exceptions exist.

Guys will ask ‘how are you’ and ‘what you been up to’ but beyond that they kind of expect conversation to flow without questions. Essentially you’re more expected to say what you want to say without being asked.

Let me give you examples from today:

• A mate asked me a question about AI. Then goes into bits related to his job. I might then say something about my job. He might then say he’s travelling to France. I’ll respond about travelling to Spain etc
• Another mate calls me to talk about an issue he was having. After 20 mins, asks me how my day is going 🤣

For a long time I used to find someone asking me questions really intrusive and always look for a hidden agenda behind the question. For example ‘what are your evening plans?’ implying they want to ask me to do something, or ‘what do you do?’ trying to assess my finances.

I’m not sure if asking questions is more female-coded but not everybody prefers to progress the conversation in that way. It’s not necessarily that they’re rude or disinterested in you.

You can still get to know someone and vice versa without making it feel like an interview. Think of it like chatting to a stranger in the pub - much less pressure, very casual

@ForRedShark @Brightbluesomething gives good advice here.

🛩✈️ told me he loves me. I said it back.

I’m sorry in advance but I’m going to be honest with you. You needs to get offline for a bit and detox from manosphere content. This example is literally straight out of Adolescence.

I have called good mates out on this and I will keep telling men to stop believing things that money hungry influencers say. They then proceed to sell men products to get into that ‘20%’. Supplements, workouts, cosmetics, the lot.

Go to a public place where couples go this weekend. Maybe a shopping centre.

Look around.

Who are the men there with partners? Bold men. Overweight men. Men with visible health problems. Men with bad jobs or no job. Your 19-year-old spotty neighbour with his high school girlfriend. That bookish guy from the chess club. Your IT guy from the office who has far too many cats. That gamer guy with green hair from across the road that never says a word.

The point is, lots of very average looking and very average people are in relationships. A very small percentage of the population is exceptionally attractive or otherwise outstanding. Most couples are average people dating other average people.

Without sounding cocky, I’m very attractive. I get pulled out of crowds at events to go backstage, get freebies everywhere, get away with murder.

I feel attracted to… all kinds of guys. I don’t care what job they do, backgrounds, usually more attracted to overweight guys etc. They just need to have good chat and really connect with me at a human level.

The kinds of comments that make me reconsider the relationship?

• I’m not good enough for you
• Wow, you’re well out of my league
• I must take a pic of us for my mate or they won’t believe we’re together
• Why would you date someone like me?
• 80/20 stuff - huuuuge red flag 🚩

Some of these relationships have gone on for a while as I’ve forced them but they’ve failed because the man just doesn’t feel comfortable. Essentially they friendzone themselves.

Something I now live by is that I’ll only date people who feel comfortable in their own skin, want me and have the balls to pursue me. If you don’t think you deserve the woman, you will self sabotage. You first need to believe you’re good enough, love yourself and the rest will follow.

You remind me of my mate who had terrible self esteem, really wanted to be in a relationship but suffered a lot of setbacks. He was in a really bad place and hyper focused on the 80/20 mindset and how he needed to change everything about himself.

He got to a mentally better place and is now engaged 2 years into a great relationship.

Back yourself and you will get the girl. But you need to genuinely value yourself first.

Stepping away from corners of the internet where they chip chip away at your self esteem, and taking a break from dating apps (also not a great place for self esteem or good mental health) can be really beneficial along the way.

Us women also come in all kinds of packages. We also struggle massively with self esteem and from a young age are taught you need to look in a certain way to get a guy. It’s a pretty rubbish way to live. Don’t let manosphere propaganda get you and tell you you’re all kinds of wrong. Next you’ll be looksmaxxxing and buying sports cars thinking this will fix everything. Spoiler alert, this mostly attracts other men and the odd gold digger.

what does your bio say about you? If it’s something along the lines of, “can’t see likes, message me” or “does this even work” I’d def swipe left. You need something upbeat about your bio, it’s not all about how you look physically.

Actually I’m curious about Asian guys lately. I see a lot of hot Chinese and Indian guys at the activities I go to. In some way though I’m hesitant about talking to them as I don’t know if they’d consider someone outside their diaspora/ religion romantically. I’ve always had the impression they usually wouldn’t as I can’t think of any Asian guys with a non-Asian partner.

Have dated various ethnicities and religions previously.

Got asked out by an Indian American investment banker guy recently but didn’t go for it as Americans is probably the only background that I do currently hold against the asker… Which is a shame as London’s full of keen chatty Americans!

Nosdacariad Oh I love this for you! Very exiting.

coolpattern Absolutely! We may all feel negative about online dating at times (or all of the time!) but we don't need it on our profiles.

ElleintheWoods You talk a lot of sense!

@coolpattern my bio mentions my hobbies what I enjoy and what Im looking for. It doesnt contain any negative sounding statements.

I would say its upbeat but not too try hard or fake sounding.

@ElleintheWoods thank you for your kind and measured, logical reply.

You say you are Very Attractive, you will never have any trouble in attracting a partner. I wish i was Very attractive, or even attractive. Im about a 4 out of 10.

Re the dating apps, i should delete them all, as not getting any matches does make me feel worse. But then i read about you all on here going on dates, and it gives me belief again that it is possible, and i download the apps again. Its a vicious cycle. Vicious and brutal.

Gorgeous news! Planes is a lucky fella!

I really empathise with this - my FWB is staying with me for a couple of nights and the sex, the companionship, the conversation, it's all so lush. He is so lush! (Not massively conventionally attractive, @ForRedShark! But in my eyes his physique is godlike! )

I have decided to use it as inspiration (as well as just having a bloody good time!). My ultimate goal is to enjoy sex, cuddles and togetherness just as good as this, but with someone who actually loves me and wants ONLY me. And I am not willing to settle for less than that - I'd much rather remain single to be quite honest....

OK, changes in tone of messaging can be tricky to address as it's quite subtle and hard to pinpoint, to discussing it with the person is therefore tricky.

Are you absolutely certain the change is there, and something to worry about? (I mean, could he be busy, unwell, flagging in the heat or some such....)?

And is it just on his side, or do you feel cooler towards him to since the timings convo?

And if so, what outcome would you like? Further discussion? Moving on? Or has it made you rethink the relationship at all?

To me, it sounds like he may have expressed things badly, and perhaps is sulking slightly because you called him on it? If that's the case, proceed with caution - tendency to sulk can be a real red flag in my opinion.
...

@ForRedShark, firstly, I am really sorry that, as you mentioned in an earlier message, racist prejudice has been a factor in your OLD struggles.

From a few very shocking and disappointing comments I have had as a white woman on the occasions I've dated black or dual heritage guys (comments from white friends I would NOT have previously considered racist at all, but who definitely have some unconscious bias lurking around.....) I can well believe you could be right about this aspect - and of course nobody should be stereotyped by race or anything else, on OLD or anywhere else.

But this brings me to the second point I wanted to make. However often we, as a group of women, tell you that women do not solely or even primarily swipe based on conventional attractivensss, you persist in believing that we do, a stereotype which implies women are shallow and unrealistic. @ElleintheWoodsis right, I knew I had heard this stuff before - it's peddled by the Manosphere, to fuel and encourage resentment against women.

Yes, we have eyes, and preferences, and sex drives. Some of us care more about looks than others, some like handsome, some like quirky, etc etc. But we aren't all the same! If we really were this hoarde of image-obsessed idiots, all convinced we can and desperate to date a male model whatever our own age, looks, appearance, preferences - we'd be brainless and laughable, wouldn't we?

But we are not.

Respect for women is literally THE most attractive trait you can have, I would say. And it's not to be found listening to a bunch of mysogynists thinking they can tell you what women want.

If you want to know what women want, ask and believe women. But also know that it will be different for each and every woman.

Apologies if this sounds harsh, but it felt really important to say it. I am glad you are getting counselling as I think that will help you feel better and happier. A break from dating sounds like it would help also. Good luck.

the short response to this is GET OFF THE APPS!

I was in your position 10 years ago. I was divorced and when I felt ready to get out there again I downloaded the apps. After two years of being ignored on them, I mean completely ignored, my self-esteem was in the gutter. I had to delete them for my own good and I've never even considered going back on them.

The simple fact is I'm not attractive enough in the ways you need to be to succeed on an app. If you're average (or below average) looking you are simply going to struggle to get that much interest on a dating app. Interestingly the Bumble numbers someone up-thread has posted bear out a pet theory of mine (not that it's in any way original). I think for the most part, on appearance alone, men are typically attracted to roughly 50% of (age-appropriate) women, at least attracted enough to want to date. Whereas women are attracted to a far far smaller percentage of men based on appearance alone. BUT, whilst the 50% of women that men find attractive is basically fixed, the percentage of men that women will be attracted to once they get to know them expands greatly. But on a dating app what have you got? 5 photos and a bit of dry text. I may know I'm a great guy, you may know you're a great guy, but getting that across on a dating app is near enough impossible.

One thing I'm sure of is that none of the women I've been out with and certainly not my ex-wife, would ever have swiped right on me on Tinder or Bumble. Unfortunately now I've been single for 10 years because even though I can rationalise this and understand it fully I can't emotionally feel that any woman could ever be attracted to me again. So I didn't ask out the woman from my meetup group who as good as begged me to do so and didn't pursue the woman in Caffe Nero who kept making excuses to start up conversations with me and sabotaged so many other opportunities. The apps seem like such a great option. Who wouldn't want to find love at the swipe of a thumb? But it's an illusion. You're clearly not the type of person who can just view OLD as a numbers game and wait for that one perfect match that might be months away.

Get out into the world and meet women. They will not come to you. You won't be most women's cup of tea but you will be someone's. It may not seem fair that all the women on here seem able to spend 10 minutes swiping and get a date for the weekend. Well it isn't. But it's also not fair that often that date is married, or he's only after a quick bunk-up, or he's just dating them until a 'better' option comes up. The best thing you can do is socialise, socialise, socialise. Join a meetup group if you don't have much opportunity in your current life. I was a member of one for years and if I could have gotten out of my own way I could have dated regularly.

Good luck.

Change in text style is hard - for me text is hard - as you may know depending on whether you read my text agony and/or shame posts 🙈🤣

I think a style change is recognisable but it’s so hard to pinpoint. However, I also think style of texting between 2 people changes naturally with time and tone can be affected by a bad day they don’t want to mention or similar.

It seems to be going well otherwise and if it’s good ‘in person’ I would go on that. You said nothing mentioned re Saturday yet - is it usually by now? You’re at a point you can ask I think?

Top tip from Gemini on one text I was sending when not feeling the excitement was to say ‘the text is … hard to read/not getting the vibe etc’ - point being to point finger at technology rather than him, rather than saying ‘you sound … not bothered’ you replace that with ‘text isn’t clear’ - less succinct there than AI in my explanation but hope I make sense lol.
I mean that’s if you want to say anything.

Hope it’s resolved soon.

Edited for clarity

Woohoo 🙌- wonderful for both of you - he’s a lucky guy. Enjoy this time.

@ForRedShark- I’m sorry you’re still finding it so hard and a downer. You’ve had some really fabulous advice and differing points of view.

I’ll add a bit, but it’s only my thoughts not any great truths - firstly I know you say about us getting dates - but if you read through many are disappointing, even downright creepy - others have taken a long time - quite a few equally fed up there are none - you’re not outlying as much as you imagine.

You do really need to get out in the real world and connect with others - female, male, young, old - get your comfort in your own skin up and find that people are people are people and you can really get on with some, just pass the time of day with others and hope never to see a few of them again - and that will be nothing to do with looks at all. Notice too that you’re not attracted to every female your age, and that’s ok. Going back to some earlier stuff you said - either stay away from or ignore those mates who brag about women - a/ they are exaggerating wildly and b/ that sort of thing is wildly unattractive to women and c/it really is quite toxic and does you (and them) no long term favours.

Re being Asian - it will play into some people’s decision to swipe or not, but so much does anyway I’m not sure how high a feature that is - I’d like to say negligible but can’t guarantee that. Some female friends who are Asian have also had difficulty on apps for various sort of related reasons though played out differently at times - so it’s not a specific male thing I think where it may play a part. But Each and every one of us has things about us we could pick up on and focus on as a reason but it’s probably not that big in others’ minds.

Looks - my kids are gonna be well surprised when I marry Mr Tree and they can finally meet him haha - but for me - it’s wow, wow, wow. I am 60 now but it’s happened previously to me - and everyone - only one of my daughters has a recognisable type too - other 3 even surprise their mum at times but if it works it works.

Mainly don’t let this get you bitter about sites/women - it’s disappointing today - one day it won’t be, but until then get out too and enjoy other parts of life too and realise single has a lot to offer as well.

@ElleintheWoods thank you for saying what I wanted to say but deleted a few times. @ForRedShark was sounding quite red pillish and @ForRedShark I don't think you are taking things on board...yet.

Thanks all for the kind comments.

I've said before that planes looks like someone's Gramps in pics but also in person has a lovely vitality that makes him so attractive.

He is also jobless right now.

I met him on the strength of his lovely messages and warm profile.

I cannot thank you all enough for your support and kind advice, which I will take on board whilst I wait for my first counselling session, thank you.

Yes this sounds spot on, I think we are in exactly the same place.

I think I have fallen into a bit of a trap though. I enjoy my dates with my situationships so much that I find it hard to get excited about anyone else. I have a first date (coffee) tomorrow morning and I’m already wondering if I can bothered. Of course I will still go, and will try to keep an open mind… Just wish I could meet someone who actually wants a relationship but also ticks all the other boxes too.

@Nosdacariad Awwww that’s lovely! Really pleased it’s working out. Things seem to be progressing quickly, how are you feeling about the pace of it all? (No judgement here by the way, I got engaged to my ex husband after we’d been together 2 weeks).

I am keeping an eye on the speed.

I will definitely not be introducing the kids yet, and I won't be combining anything or overfunctioning (mistakes made with MrX).