Seeking gentle support after recognising abuse and coercive control

[Becksta1]

Hello. I posted on here last July and the previous post can be seen following this link.
It was kindly suggested to me to consider doing another post to maybe get further support. I’m not sure where I’m at emotionally and truly what I want. It’s a process I guess and I think it will be a long tough one 😞
I can’t really say what I need but I’ve spoken to Women’s Aid who have said there’s sexual abuse, financial abuse and coercive control in my relationship of 24 years. Any support, gentle advice, or a virtual shoulder to lean on is much appreciated.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5370025-husband-wont-let-me-do-the-food-shop?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

It doesn't really matter whether there was penetration or not - whatever it is he's trying, you don't want it. Your consent needs to be clear and enthusiastic. It seems to me that you're feeling too confused to give it.

Him making you a hot drink in the evening has made me think again that he might be drugging you. Fwiw, Gisele Pelicot had massive memory and health problems that stopped the moment her abuser no longer had the chance to drug her. He drugged her with sleeping pills.

You are also taking sleeping pills. Where do you get these from? Does he provide them? Perhaps you can request an in person medication review with your GP? You should be able to do this online.

I know, I try not to worry about it.

I am emotional about my mum. She’s poorly and has ovarian cancers but my sister said it’s not curable, it will come back but it’s manageable. I have to get health updates from my sister because my mum once said she had a serous problem with her heart. This come after I’d briefly decided not to see her because she isn’t always kind and I’d decided to protect my piece for a while. When I checked with my sister, she said there wasn’t a problem it was just a check that was routine because she needed more treatment for a hernia so it was more of a check to see if she was well enough to have the op. Now I go through my sister for health updates regarding my mum, my friend suggested I do this, because she will try and pull me back in ways like this and make promises if I try and distance. I’d never completely cut off contact but I have got better at not constantly having demands put on me which she doesn’t like. It’s very complicated. I don’t like to visit when my d*d is there so I try to visit when he’s working and I can’t drop everything and drive that far when my children and hubby need me here.

She was cruel to me a lot growing up and into adulthood, but the last time I saw her she was on morphine after her hernia op at home and she didn’t say anything horrible, so I’m hoping that means she does love me although deep down I know she doesn’t through her actions and she’s told me that too. I think sometimes when things get heavy, I just want that maternal care that I never had and hope that one day she can actually be my mum.

It sounds like your inner child, the little girl in you, wants love and protection from your mum. Your relationship sounds complex as I am guessing she has protected your abuser and said she doesn’t believe you.
I am sorry she’s said so many hurtful things to you. I don’t have a good relationship with my mum either. It’s very awkward when she meets me as she never hugs me, it feels unnatural anyway. She’s nice to me in other ways, she’s helped me financially massively and she adores my daughters and really gives them a love she’s never been able to give to me. She does say hurtful things to me if I spend too much time with her. It’s really weird as my older dd, now that she’s at uni calls me her best friend. So I know at least the pattern of dysfunctional mother daughter relationships won’t be passed down. Sorry, I am rambling a bit.

Do you have any older mother like figure around. I was a mother like figure to a troubled girl once at work, you sound quite young @Becksta1

What sort of job did you do before you had the children?

I think I do have unwanted sex, but he wouldn’t know that. I don’t think he’s drugging me. He gets me the Nytol tablets that you get from behind the counter and very rarely I have a melatonin (my DC has them prescribed for his ADHD) I have the nytol in my bedside drawer and I don’t take them all the time because they stop working if you take them daily. I struggle a lot with nightmares and flashbacks and the days I don’t take my sleeping tablet I struggle to shut down and I wake in the night. I probably take them 2/3 times a week. I have previously had some zopiclone by my GP that was a while ago.

I think I’m so confused because when it happens, I freeze or cut off. So I can’t always feel my body so I go some place in my head and because it’s happened a lot I can’t recall each time clearly and they get all muddled. I have wanted to forget too, especially when I’ve felt helpless. Like I know it’s happening but I think I shut down. When hubby said he spoke to MH and they said it was anxiety induced, he said they asked if I could wake him because the first few times he said he couldn’t remember and had done it in his sleep, and he said he told them it’s difficult for me because I have past trauma which means I freeze and they said that must be difficult. For a few weeks he slept on the sofa afterwards and I thought it would all be okay but it did start again.

i am sorry if I’m repeating myself, I know my replies are quite long.

This whole thread is really triggering for me. Just sending lots of love - will send a more useful reply tomorrow.

Thank you. I’m going to look into getting another phone,

Do you understand that you are in an abusive relationship?

I’ve been thinking about you all day, sending you my love.

I understand the lack of maternal side of things. My childhood had all of that missing. We have to love ourselves as adults as the little girls we once were needed to be loved. It will help you get stronger to leave your abuser.

I am sure you are quite a bit younger than a lot of us, so we are here with the maternal love trying to look after you.

I do and I think I have known deep down for many months now, from when I posted first last July. I’m sad that when I posted last July, I thought the problem was me and I wanted to be a better wife. It wasn’t me was it? But I was so worried about getting it wrong. Your question in an odd way, made me think without hesitation gosh yes, I am in an abusive relationship. I need to start paying attention to that feeling you get when something isn’t right, and then explore it like I’ve been doing here and with my friend. I guess there’s nothing lost by checking with someone, and exploring might help me work it out as my default in my mind is I’ve done something wrong. I know the posts that weren’t gentle and were questioning my dates were removed but seeing all them confused me too and made me question myself again and I got a bit lost.

It’s the coercive control that I’ve been struggling to get my head around, so I’m going to ask my good friend to buy it for me on her Amazon account, I’ll give her the money of course, and I’ll read it when I’m with her so it won’t be in my house. I do remember the nice lady at WA saying abusers can intentionally be inconsistent so you’re constantly second guessing yourself, and them, which adds to the confusion. He bought me flowers from the supermarket when he did our food shop on Friday which is quite rare, part of me felt guilty because I knew I was going to ring WA the following day and he’d just done something lovely and out of the blue. I pushed that aside though and rang anyway. It was hard and took a lot of strength, it wasn’t easy. I intentionally distracted myself for the two hours I was waiting. I lit a scented candle and did some tidying whilst it was on speaker because if I stared at the phone I might have lost that teeny bit of strength and put the phone down. I’m glad I didn’t so I’m going to try and be proud of myself.

I am sorry. Please don’t feel like you need to read or reply at all. Please look after yourself, that’s the most important thing. Thanks for the love and kindness and sending lots back to you too xx

When hubby said he spoke to MH and they said it was anxiety induced, he said they asked if I could wake him because the first few times he said he couldn’t remember and had done it in his sleep, and he said he told them it’s difficult for me because I have past trauma which means I freeze and they said that must be difficult.

There is a lot based on 'he said' here. If I understand this correctly, according to him:

• He touches you sexually because he is anxious? While he allegedly sleeps?
• The mental health counsellor made it your problem to wake him while he touches you?
• The mental health counsellor was sympathetic with him touching you sexually while you sleep, because of your trauma?

It sounds like he's making this up. Was this private counselling, or NHS? Did he pay for you to go, and then make a separate appointment for himself with the same person? No worries if you can't remember - this MH person's advice just sounds so dodgy that it must be a lie.

Fwiw there is a woman in a similar situation on this thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5522581-tw-sa-new-therapist-new-thread
She is also being sexually abused in her sleep.

Thank you, this is really helpful. I imagine when I do leave I’ll continue to do things that help me feel safe again. I started a while back saving bits of money in a separate savings account. There’s not a lot, probably only £200 as I’ve had to dip into it. But it’s something.

Thanks again, and sending so much love.

Hello! Women’s circles are fab aren’t they? I’d be lost without mine. My very good and supportive best friend actually hosts ours and I do have a couple of friendships that have come from the circle. I’ve not really spoken so much about the abuse to them because their children go to the same school as mine and my husband chats to them. Still lovely friends though, and they’re a lovely way for me to escape my mental world and just be mum as we mainly chat about crystals and the kids!

I wanted to reply when I saw this yesterday but wanted to do it right. Firstly thank you for sharing that with me, I do hear you. Relationships with mums are so complicated, there’s so many expectations put on us and how we are meant to feel. I learned a long time ago just not really talk about my relationship with my mum as the minute you say it’s not a close one, people can’t understand why and I don’t feel like I want to share. It’s a little easier on here because we don’t know each other.

I can tell you’re a wonderful mum, and I can see why your DD says such beautiful things about you. You’re both so very lucky. I mean you’ve been lovely to me, someone who you don’t have to talk to and you could have scrolled on, it says heaps about you. You’re winning at life, and as crappy as these things are. It has in some messed up way made me a much better mother. I’ll never be like her, ever. You’ve broken that cycle, and your DD will never have to question that love. Ultimate life goal.

i hope I’ve answered everything. I have to use the phone but it makes it tricky to see the full post before I hit reply. Also why mine are full of typos 🙈

I dealt with motor insurance claims xx

Your first bullet point, he told me that when he spoke on the phone at the MH Talking Therapies team for an assessment, he queried sexsomnia as he said he didn’t remember doing it. I should have said that before this point he said he’d spoke to the GP (I wasn’t present at any of this) He said the GP didn’t suspect sexsomnia but didn’t say much else on this.

He was cagey and made me wait a few weeks after he’d had these talks because he said he wasn’t ready. I found that hard because I was very scared and I didn’t know if it would happen again. But I wanted to respect that whatever it was I shouldn’t push him. He’d been telling me how suicidal he was and how much he was struggling. He actual said that the MHT were so worried about him too so I wanted to make sure he was okay. I became more worried about him. He said something like they said it’s not sexsomia but caused by his anxiety because he struggles to instigate sex, this is awful to write and it’s just made me realise that it’s like they or he are saying he struggles to instigate sex with me awake. I don’t think that’s what was said but that’s now what I feel. I don’t know. I’m sorry I’m probably over explaining now but maybe it’s important. I know he’s had sex with me awake, and is more than happy to show me that he wants to have sex. A song came on yesterday on our Spotify in the kitchen on the shuffle playlist, Boom Boom Boom by Outhere Brothers I think. It’s very rude and he kept saying he wants to do all those things to me. He’s quite graphic about what he wants to and it isn’t romantic. Part of the problem with him wfh is we have an empty house in the day, that’s when the strong come ons happen. When I’ll have sex with him to please him, so he can instigate sex. Or maybe he couldn’t so much a few years ago. I can’t remember now, I’m reflecting on what it is like now. What I mean is he’s more graphic, and more confident. So if he was anxious back about sex he isn’t now or at least doesn’t appear it. It doesn’t make sense and at the time I was really confused with the explanation. She also said to him that it’s common in long term relationships, I can’t remember the exact wording or if he told me. I think she meant the sexual touching of your partner, I don’t know if the context was about the partner being asleep.

On your second bullet point, yes she said if he wasn’t aware then could I try and wake him and push him away. So yes, I guess the responsibility was then put on me. I guess most people would wake their partner if they do that, and when it happened that awful time towards the end of 2023, I shuffled away and I pretended to snore. It was only when I felt the, sorry I hate using the words, his penis push against the opening of my vagina did I freeze. I can’t remember if I said no, or stop, or I’m tired. I have since, but I don’t know if I did then. I’ll also add bit that this is relevant but I’m 5ft2 and weigh 8st7lbs. He’s nearly 6ft weighs 22st. I’m not saying this because his weight is a problem to me, I love him for who he is, but because he’s so much bigger than me I think I would struggle even if I could. Again this is my reflection now with the passage of time. I do want to say that it didn’t go in, but it was close and it scared me.

With your third point, in response to what he said about the therapist saying I should maybe push him away, I then said to him but you know I can’t and he said he told them that I go spacey because of past trauma so this would be difficult for me. He said she then expressed or acknowledged that this might be hard for me. Whilst this was happening he was sleeping on the sofa as he was saying that it would never happen again and I’m said I didn’t want him in the bed until I knew I was safe.

It was through the NHS talking therapies, completely separate to mine. I was already on the waiting list to have counselling through a specialist charity for the CSA.

I sadly don’t know anyone who works in MH so I don’t know what should’ve been said. I think he did speak to someone because he would go away in the car to have therapy on the phone. My friend thinks he wasn’t honest with them, or gave a different version.

Also him going to therapy was something that I insisted on, I told him I wasn’t sure I could be with him anymore. I had to chase him up and ask him a lot if he had spoke to anyone yet, it took 2/3 months for him to finally do it.

I was shocked when he said he didn’t remember because although I sleep with my back to him, it felt like he was awake. He even moved (I thought he was stopping) but he was removing his boxers, that’s when the pressure on my vagina started. If someone said, what’s your gut feeling, it’s that he was awake. But it’s happened several times since, back then I didn’t know. I was confused and I trusted that if MH said what they said, then they must be right. And it was between him and MH. Pre this i was at a good place in life. In 2023 I’d started to pursue things outside of the house, like yoga and womens circles. I started to develop a lovely friendship with the friend I have spoken about.

There is more to say, and there was a police call out once that I’m happy to speak more about but I know I’ve said a lot and I have a tendency to pour once I start to talk, maybe it’s the bringing it up again, and that’s a lot for everyone to take in and it’s Friday night, and it’s bank holiday. I hope you’re all having a nice one whatever you are doing. I might have to go quiet for a while too as I probably should be more careful. I’m safe to post now though so don’t worry.

I do hope I’ve made sense, I know I go back and forth a lot. I’m happy to clarify if I can xx

Thank you. Someone else told me about this too but I’m worried I’ll get triggered if I read, is that okay? I know she probably is struggling a lot too so I will send some love and hold her in my thoughts xx

I’m sorry I was so open then.

Thank you for your kind comment upthread @Becksta1 ❤️

i just read what you said about your husband and I think it’s made up bullshit and it sounds like none of this sat right with you from the beginning. He got scared when you called him out and probably got scared you would report him then manipulated you by threatening suicide.

If he was genuinely concerned about touching you in your sleep he would take precautions ie sleep somewhere else. He sounds highly sexualised and he seems to pressurise you into sex or unwanted attention relentlessly. He's treating you more as a possession than a partner. No wonder he willingly buys you the sleeping pills so he can touch you at night. I’m really sorry that you must be terrified in your own bed.

I am not going to say for you to find your anger, he’s an abuser and I don’t want him to hurt you. However, I will say this, let’s make a plan to get you and your dc out of there. It doesn’t have to be tomorrow , or next week but tell us what you fear the most about leaving and we will tackle these worries. We can look at possible online courses you could do as just one suggestion to upskill for work. As you worked in insurance claims I am sure you already have many skills already!

The good thing is, you want to leave. That’s a start. The rest will come. Well done for opening up and being so detailed in your responses, as it will help us to help you. Sending you a hand hold xx

Please don’t apologise though I know it’s a really big thing that you are putting this out there. It’s ok honestly, it must feel good to let it all out there. You are speaking your own truth which is what a good therapist would encourage ❤️

Thank you. I’m just very scared.