Please help- extremely clever husband who is cheating.

[PeppyLemur]

Hi,

I am going crazy. I think my partner is cheating on me. Maybe even gay. We have been married for 11yrs and have two children. I can't leave without proof due to the culture I am from. My eyes were oblivious to everything he was doing until one day he was acting very odd (3 or 4yrs ago now). He works two jobs so is hardly at home or is at home when we aren't. I work during the day and that's when he's home. He's home for an hour after the kids get home from school then is off to his next job. He has one full day off from both jobs in the week. 3/4yrs ago, on that one day off he was acting very odd. I didn't say anything, just kept watching and observing him. Anyway, he basically pretended to go to sleep really early because he was very tired but went to bed dressed with socks etc on. He placed his wallet and watch outside in the hallway very carefully. I got into bed, pretended I fell asleep. As soon as he thought I was asleep, he began using his phone. He had called an uber and was waiting for it. He then very carefully got out of bed, got his wallet, watch, keys etc and went out of the house. He returned at 1 or 2 am. He went fresh and alert and came back really tired, out of it. He was very careful to open the door and be very quiet. He shut my room door and went straight in the shower. He was in there for an hour. I heard him brushing his teeth, using mouthwash etc. then he put the laundry on with his clothes inside. He then went and sat in the living room for an hour. Very stupidly, I just lay in bed, frozen and in shock. I should have confronted him then and there. But so many questions dawned on me, how long had this been going on for? How long has he been making me a fool? How long have I been so stupid to trust him? So many things were going through my mind that I couldn't confront him. For a week, I watched what he was doing. Everytime I'd come home from work, I'd realise the laundry was on and he'd hang the clothes out etc (always refused to do it when I asked him). And it was always his clothes. Then some days he slacked and only put them in the laundry when he realised I was getting suspicious. I checked them, he had obviously been masturbating because he had cum in his boxers. Anyway a week went past. I tried to get into his phone, I couldn't. Didn't know the password, he had so many locks on there. Then I tried to put the sim in my phone, managed to change the password for his email and instagram. I found out nothing because he deleted everything and unknown to my knowledge at the time- he had other accounts too. I found on his email, emails that he had changed his password, he done this daily- I found that odd. Anyways after a week I was done, I was killing myself. Trying to watch him, trying to get into his phone when he fell asleep, etc. I only saw him msging men on fb/instagram but couldn't see what he was typing or saying. I confronted him, I asked him if he was gay. He told me he wasn't but his hands were shaking. He showed me his phone but of course I didn't find anything in there because I didn't know where to look at the time and also because everything was hidden. He let me look at the phone for about 2mins. Then he started getting defensive and arguing with me about how dare I say that etc. anyway fast forward to now, I have been suspicious of him since then. He has a password on his phone that I don't know, he has a facial recognition on his phone. He will never let me hold his phone. He wouldn't let the kids on his phone but now does but doesn't let them out of his sight. Just in case I might take a look at his phone. If my battery is dead and I ask to use his phone to call someone, he will go put my phone on charge, wait till it's 3% then give it to me to call but not give me his phone. He knew my phone password, kept going on my phone and checking my msgs, my bank, etc. but after him not allowing me, I've also changed my lock etc. he has a lock on everything, WhatsApp etc. he now has a black screen so I can't see anything when next to him. I noticed he has three diff TikTok accounts. Before, he didn't have all privacy settings on TikTok so I could see what videos he liked, they were all gay ones. Then he noticed I was looking at his profile everyday and changed the settings. Recently I've noticed he gets so many notifications from Snapchat (mostly from men but some from women) but I'm on his Snapchat and do not see any of his snaps up. I desperately need to get into his phone but I can't. I need help. I am so desperate to get out of this relationship. In these 11yrs he has been controlling, playing mind games with me (so much so that I doubt myself now), he gaslights me so much, the mental abuse is unreal. Always comparing me to other women etc. before anyone says, just leave him you don't need proof- please don't. If I could, without proof, I wouldn't think twice. I wouldn't kill myself like this. I can't eat, sleep, rest. I know he's doing something but don't know what. I need help- please! Everyday, he refuses sex with me but I come home to see that he has masturbated, showered etc. I am acting totally dumb like I don't suspect him, don't know of anything. In the hopes that he will slip up but he is way too clever for me. He does not slip up, even when exhausted. Someone please help me get out of this. When I have proof, I will pack his bags, show him and his family the proof and apply for a divorce- I'm not suffering anymore. 11yrs is more than enough.

You think calling me stupid is helpful! 🤔

You don’t like women very much.

You're hilarious 😂

Pulling out the misogynist card to "win" does make you look very silly indeed.

You do know you're not all women don't you? I'm not taken with you but don't write off my beloved sisters, mother, friends and future unmet female friends on the basis they share your sex.

OP I’m sorry you’re in this situation. I am wondering if you’re so worn down with his gaslighting etc that not only is your self-confidence at an all time low, but you are scared as well. That fear keeps you from acting - you’ve been stuck for so long, you are afraid of what happens if you leave your husband. You are afraid of where you will live. You are afraid of all the logistics involved with divorcing and not knowing how to do it all. You are afraid of people talking and judging. You are afraid that you might be wrong and you’re blowing up your marriage on suspicions alone.

Getting past that fear is hard. I know, because I’m stuck in an unhappy, emotionally abusive marriage because I’m scared. I make excuses all the time. Please don’t be me - approaching 50 and wishing I’d stuck to my guns in my 30’s. Reach out to a friend who will support you. Call Women’s Aid. Ask them for help. Don’t worry about what his family say, think, believe or do. They will always support their son. Once you get away from him, it will all become clearer in your head and you’ll regret not doing it sooner.

Ask yourself this - are you prepared to spend the rest of your life with him if you can never get the proof you need? How much proof do you need? If he denies it when presented, would that stop you leaving?

What can we do to help you? You don’t deserve this.

This sounds like a truly awful relationship OP regardless of whether you have the proof you are looking for or not. The mental and emotional impact it’s had on you is reflected in your posts. You are unhappy, there is secrecy and deception and there is no trust or warmth or intimacy in your marriage. That is not a healthy relationship. I would urge you to direct your energy into getting some support from a culturally sensitive organisation who will help you to leave this unhappy marriage of yours.

Normally I wouldn’t suggest this, but you sound so unhappy. Try setting up catfishing Snapchat/Grinder/Tinder/TikTok/Instagram accounts as a hot men and get your proof that way? I think that might be the only way to do it as you have no access to his phone.

Please, @Tillow4ever, start a thread in which you put down the reasons you (believe you) are stuck in this marriage.

Let the wonderful women of Mumsnet help you understand that none of them are insurmountable.

I believe that however scared you are, you have the courage within you to take this first step.

Don’t wish you had done it in your 30s; be glad you did it while you were still in your 40s.

Take that first step.

You can and should leave this relationship. You don't need proof. You need courage, a thick hide and a lawyer.

I am not worried about the future. Well in all honesty, I haven't thought that far but I know I will be in a much better position than I am now. For the last 11yrs, he has done nothing but bring me down in every single way. The road ahead will not be easy but I am ready to take that road. Even if he denies the proof, I won't care. I know exactly what I will do when I have the proof. I just need the proof for myself to take those steps.

I am not worried or do not care about what his family thinks, what my family thinks, who disowns me or doesn't, etc. I've always been one to speak up about the injustices in my culture and other cultures and have never been scared to do different- as long as I am not morally or religiously doing something wrong, I couldn't care less about culture and what people say.

However, "You are afraid that you might be wrong and you’re blowing up your marriage on suspicions alone." Is correct. I have been gaslighted to such extents that I am doubting myself on a daily basis. Is this really happening or have I made it up? Then something happens and I tell myself no you are not making it up. It's plain as day that something is going on. I have thought of catfishing but I am scared. Mentally I am not in a good place and I know I will slip up somewhere. He is extremely clever and will suss it out. He will be even more cautious than now and I'll loose any chance of finding out.

I don't know how I'm going to find proof- at this point it looks impossible.

You’re never going to find proof. Now what?

I'm so sorry to hear that you are in a situation like that. It's never too late. You are stronger than you think. You can leave him and live a better life. Start planning how to leave. Save whatever money you can. Get support from family or friends and leave him. He will suck out every ounce of life from you. You have so much to look forward to in life. Live for yourself. It's never late hun. Don't live this life. We deserve better. You deserve better. You owe yourself this much. Lots of love and prayers for you. If you ever need to talk, please msg me ❤️

I don't know...

Can you think about this differently? You are terribly unhappy and in an awful situation. In many ways it doesnt matter why - he may be gay, he may be a peeping tom maturbating, he may just be a horrible person, or any other reason. What matters is that you are miserable and that you have plenty of reasons to be so. Endlessly chasing to get into his phone puts you in tbe wrong, and if he gets into uours he is in the wrong already. You are miserable. Get your ducks in a row and get out. You dont have to prove why he's like this - he just is, and why makes no difference to how horrible your life is. Don't give him more opportunity to gaslight you.

Stay with him for ever, by the sounds of things. Are you sure that’s what you prefer?

Private Investigators don't just follow people. They have other ways of accessing devices I think. It's worth contacting one to find out. I can understand not wanting to do this without proof from a cultural aspect. Have you anyone in rl that you trust that can confide in? Or is there a womens refuge run by women from your culture anywhere that could offer advice?

I’m so sorry you are going through this. I can literally hear your trauma and upset in the way you you are writing.

https://karmanirvana.org.uk/

although Karma Nirvana do a lot around honour based abuse they do help any victim of DA so please ck tact them and they can support you in leaving x

I’m so sorry you’re going through this OP. Just so you know, making you think he’s “clever” is part of his abuse - he’s actually a dumbass who thinks his wife isn’t going to notice him leaving in the middle of the night! But making you think he’s clever keeps you in your place, and makes you too scared to act. You should be proud that you’re fighting anyway.

I also understand your desire for proof. When you’ve been gaslit that effectively, your reality denied again and again, you need something concrete that you can look at to remind yourself you’re doing the right thing. I understand that because I’ve been there, and I needed it too.

So I think you could try your luck with recording devices you know. Microphones in the car. Trackers.

But a word of caution: you can have all the proof in the world, and his family will still believe him over you. After I found out my ex was cheating (I waited to check his phone until he was passed out drunk after a wedding, then took loads of photos on my phone) he begged for forgiveness. I demanded full disclosure if we were going to “work it out” (with no intention of staying) and he actually gave me his phone and gave me access to hidden WhatsApp chats I hadn’t found before. He’d changed the contact name of the OW to “future wife”, and there were countless sexts. I took screen grabs for proof. But it still didn’t stop them villainising me for asking for the divorce. Even though I was clearly the victim. And had a LOT of proof.

long story short: be prepared for wankers to remain wankers, no matter how much proof you’ve given them. One day you’ll be well rid of all of them.

Good luck darling ❤️ a year on from this, you won’t recognise yourself

Thank you for your kind words.

Ask yourself how why your advice to someone else is “you can do it - leave” but you can’t or won’t follow that advice for yourself?

Are you Muslim? What culture are you from?

Help me understand. You believe he's gay and you need proof of this before you can leave him.

However he never leaves the house to have sex with men (apart from that one time when he "went to a friends house")

Do you think he is having sex with men during his working day/on his lunchbreak/after work?

Or do you think he is simply messaging men and having online sex (wanking)?

What is it that you think he's doing?

If you want to prove that he's gay, I don't think you can. You could prove that he's bisexual. Would that be enough for you to leave?

If so then you need a forensic IT expert to get into all his tech

Also a private investigator to follow him during his working day

What kind of ‘culture’ normalises this madness? You are miserable, he clearly neither loves or respects you. Never mind the impact on your children. What example are you setting them?! This is your one short life. Stop worrying about what other people think and leave. Plenty of help available here. Find your independence and happiness. You deserve so much better than your current situation.

I’m so sorry @PeppyLemur you are being treated abusively by your husband! None of his behaviour is a reflection on you my lovely, it’s all him.
Have you thought about getting a journaling App on your phone so you can write down his words, actions and your feelings? When he tries to gaslight you that your reality is all skewed and events didn’t happen you can read back and know you aren’t going crazy or making up things. A journal you can challenge his put downs, him forcing you into sex and his outright lies to help you see that you are not flawed or unworthy like he wants you to believe to weaken you and destroy your self esteem. Use the journal to rediscover the utterly fantastic woman you are and find your strength to navigate out of the marriage from a man who deflects his own shame and hatred onto you because he is a coward and a bully.
He is a deeply unpleasant man who has no honour or love for you and your DC, he likes to control and belittle you all so he can feel powerful and in control. People like him don't like their secrets being exposed and could turn very nasty so put a password on your phone he won’t guess easily and stay quiet about journalling. Don’t question him or act suspicious because he likes the game of you trying to get to the truth and pulling the wool over your eyes. He doesn’t matter, it’s you and your DC’s happiness and freedom from lies, abuse from such a hate filled man.

Can you confide in your family and friends? Open another bank account and squirrel money away?
Like I advised in my previous post journalling will help you untangle your mind from his gaslighting and lies. You need clarity that his behaviour is not your fault he uses any excuse to make you feel worthless. You must be walking on eggshells @PeppyLemur trying to keep everything clean so he doesn’t use a dirty dish or a dropped wrapper to berate you.
We women are not perfect robots who live to keep men happy, a relationship is a two way street and he does nothing but desperately find any ammunition to use against you as being the reason he is a wanker. We women deserve to be happy too, to not be crushed down into dust because of a man’s dissatisfaction with his life.

Op this an awful situation. I think we come from similar cultures from what I have read in your updates. I completely understand you need proof before you act on this . But once you have the proof you need to leave before you expose to his family and your family. Men who are secretly gay are very dangerous once outed,some will literally stop at nothing to protect themselves because of the culture aspect and how unacceptable they think it is and family honour ect.

Are you sure he is working as many hours as he says ? Have you seen evidence of the pay he brings home and it matches the hours worked roughly give or take ? Look into hiring a private investigation company because he is putting your health at risk of nothing else. Trust your gut instincts, he is more than likely gay and I would draw the sake conclusions from what you have said . Start to put cash away in the house somewhere he does not know and tell nobody. Keep it safe and use it when you leave . Start moving money if you can,buy gift cards for supermarket or clothes shops in the weekly shopping and keep them safe.

When your husband is around play the grindr notification, you can find on YouTube. Watch how he acts when uts played, can you maybe take a day off work but pretend to go and watch from somewhere to see what he does, or pretend to go to work and come back in after a time to see what he's doing?

I am truly sorry you're trapped at the moment like this , you'll get out but may have to play the long game. When you're ready and feel you have enough evidence to leave the marriage and granted divorce call womens aid first so you know what helo is available to you because his family will deny it until blue in the face and will cover for him in anyway they can . Be careful

It sounds like he is gay and I would heed @Whettlettuce‘s advice ‘that men who are secretly gay are very dangerous when outed, some will stop at nothing to protect themselves because of the culture aspect and how unacceptable they think it is and family honour etc.’
I think woman’s aid would be much more helpful in your circumstances for seeking advice on leaving an abusive man because his family will lie and cover for him no matter how much proof you had.

I also think you need to acknowledge what his action and horrible words really mean.
When he deliberately compares you to other woman he wants you to feel unattractive because he wants you to blame yourself for his lack of desire. He’s gay and doesn’t desire any females but projecting it as your fault.
He calls you sex mad if you dress up or cuddle him. He only desires men so has to be in the mood to perform whilst fantasising about men so wife doesn’t suspect he’s gay.
He tells your family you are not enough. No in-laws @PeppyLemur isn’t enough to make me happy because I’m gay.
He comes home and picks on an imaginary flaw of yours to berate you. I’m angry that I don’t have the courage to live my life as I want, I only married and had children to deceive everyone that I’m heterosexual and I’m going to make sure my family has to pay the price for my own unhappiness.

It is not anyone’s fault he isn’t heterosexual nor is it shameful to be homosexual but he is so afraid of being judged and condemned by anyone that he is using you to deceive his family and friends to believe he is heterosexual. He is punishing you and destroying your self esteem for his own cowardliness. He is punishing you for his sexuality that he feels ashamed off!