Please help- extremely clever husband who is cheating.

[PeppyLemur]

Hi,

I am going crazy. I think my partner is cheating on me. Maybe even gay. We have been married for 11yrs and have two children. I can't leave without proof due to the culture I am from. My eyes were oblivious to everything he was doing until one day he was acting very odd (3 or 4yrs ago now). He works two jobs so is hardly at home or is at home when we aren't. I work during the day and that's when he's home. He's home for an hour after the kids get home from school then is off to his next job. He has one full day off from both jobs in the week. 3/4yrs ago, on that one day off he was acting very odd. I didn't say anything, just kept watching and observing him. Anyway, he basically pretended to go to sleep really early because he was very tired but went to bed dressed with socks etc on. He placed his wallet and watch outside in the hallway very carefully. I got into bed, pretended I fell asleep. As soon as he thought I was asleep, he began using his phone. He had called an uber and was waiting for it. He then very carefully got out of bed, got his wallet, watch, keys etc and went out of the house. He returned at 1 or 2 am. He went fresh and alert and came back really tired, out of it. He was very careful to open the door and be very quiet. He shut my room door and went straight in the shower. He was in there for an hour. I heard him brushing his teeth, using mouthwash etc. then he put the laundry on with his clothes inside. He then went and sat in the living room for an hour. Very stupidly, I just lay in bed, frozen and in shock. I should have confronted him then and there. But so many questions dawned on me, how long had this been going on for? How long has he been making me a fool? How long have I been so stupid to trust him? So many things were going through my mind that I couldn't confront him. For a week, I watched what he was doing. Everytime I'd come home from work, I'd realise the laundry was on and he'd hang the clothes out etc (always refused to do it when I asked him). And it was always his clothes. Then some days he slacked and only put them in the laundry when he realised I was getting suspicious. I checked them, he had obviously been masturbating because he had cum in his boxers. Anyway a week went past. I tried to get into his phone, I couldn't. Didn't know the password, he had so many locks on there. Then I tried to put the sim in my phone, managed to change the password for his email and instagram. I found out nothing because he deleted everything and unknown to my knowledge at the time- he had other accounts too. I found on his email, emails that he had changed his password, he done this daily- I found that odd. Anyways after a week I was done, I was killing myself. Trying to watch him, trying to get into his phone when he fell asleep, etc. I only saw him msging men on fb/instagram but couldn't see what he was typing or saying. I confronted him, I asked him if he was gay. He told me he wasn't but his hands were shaking. He showed me his phone but of course I didn't find anything in there because I didn't know where to look at the time and also because everything was hidden. He let me look at the phone for about 2mins. Then he started getting defensive and arguing with me about how dare I say that etc. anyway fast forward to now, I have been suspicious of him since then. He has a password on his phone that I don't know, he has a facial recognition on his phone. He will never let me hold his phone. He wouldn't let the kids on his phone but now does but doesn't let them out of his sight. Just in case I might take a look at his phone. If my battery is dead and I ask to use his phone to call someone, he will go put my phone on charge, wait till it's 3% then give it to me to call but not give me his phone. He knew my phone password, kept going on my phone and checking my msgs, my bank, etc. but after him not allowing me, I've also changed my lock etc. he has a lock on everything, WhatsApp etc. he now has a black screen so I can't see anything when next to him. I noticed he has three diff TikTok accounts. Before, he didn't have all privacy settings on TikTok so I could see what videos he liked, they were all gay ones. Then he noticed I was looking at his profile everyday and changed the settings. Recently I've noticed he gets so many notifications from Snapchat (mostly from men but some from women) but I'm on his Snapchat and do not see any of his snaps up. I desperately need to get into his phone but I can't. I need help. I am so desperate to get out of this relationship. In these 11yrs he has been controlling, playing mind games with me (so much so that I doubt myself now), he gaslights me so much, the mental abuse is unreal. Always comparing me to other women etc. before anyone says, just leave him you don't need proof- please don't. If I could, without proof, I wouldn't think twice. I wouldn't kill myself like this. I can't eat, sleep, rest. I know he's doing something but don't know what. I need help- please! Everyday, he refuses sex with me but I come home to see that he has masturbated, showered etc. I am acting totally dumb like I don't suspect him, don't know of anything. In the hopes that he will slip up but he is way too clever for me. He does not slip up, even when exhausted. Someone please help me get out of this. When I have proof, I will pack his bags, show him and his family the proof and apply for a divorce- I'm not suffering anymore. 11yrs is more than enough.

Couldn't you get the police involved in regard to the rape and abuse?

Wouldn't that be enough proof that the marriage should end? Does it have to be infidelity/homosexuality?

Could you reach out to domestic abuse services specific to your culture?

If you must stay, I would stop all the questioning and checking up on him until he thinks you've given up, and wait until he drops his guard.

It doesn't sound like you'll ever get the proof you say you need to leave. Which means you'll be staying in an abusive relationship. Please contact Womans Aid or local DA support. They can at least offer support while you're in this situation.

With respect, then: you don’t need proof, you want proof. And you also want to get out of this relationship. Which do you want more? Talk to Women’s Aid.

Are the consequences for him being "outed" to his family and community likely to be high?

Is it revenge you're seeking rather than escape?

It may be that even if you did have solid proof, his family would reject it. It's amazing what knots people will tie themselves into to avoid certain things.

I think you'd be far better engaging with domestic abuse services and seeking out support in more liberal parts of your community and essentially leaving him & his family behind.

You will be waiting a VERY long time if it's proof you want. How much more misery do you want to subject yourself to?

I don’t understand why you care about the opinion of family that clearly don’t care about you .
Any proof you manage to glean will just be denied anyway .
Do you want to be part of a culture that treats women like this ?
Just wake up , you get one life !
If you can’t do it for yourself you need to do it for the kids , what are you teaching them ?

You don’t need proof but I can understand why you might want proof for your own sanity and to stop yourself going over and over things in your head.

First, absolutely stop asking him things, trying to look at his phone, etc, You need to act like you now have no suspicions and are happy. This will lull him into a false sense of security but it will probably take a few months to do so.

Then hire a private investigator, just to check things like his daily work routine being true, etc. Those are the foundational investigations - that he gets to work when he says, doesn’t detour, doesn’t go somewhere during his lunch break, and so on.

Leave his phone for now. If you keep trying to get into his accounts, he might be alerted, which will make him even more secretive. You can, however, Google to see if you can find his profiles on anything. If you know or can guess apps and sites where he lurks, then you can set up a fake profile and carefully look for him.

While he might notice cameras, there are audio recording devices you can get which are tiny and around the size of a USB stick.

Basically, take your time, be ultra-cautious and keep a poker face. I found out what I wanted this way, but it took time.

Is there a Women’s Aid charity for your culture, they could help more than the general charity as would have specific cultural knowledge.
As PPs say, you really do need to get out of this relationship - if your family disown you, so be it. I bet when you do leave, things will come to light re your DH and they’ll believe you then (assuming it’s a tight-knit community)

For those who don't understand why I want proof and are telling me to just leave, I can't make you understand why I need the proof. It's not revenge, it's for my own sanity.

In this relationship he has always put me down, whatever I do, it's never enough. I'm always compared to other women who are apparently perfect. when I had my second child, I became very ill. After some months I found out I developed an autoimmune disease. In those months that I was really ill, he told everyone that I didn't clean the house, didn't cook, etc. he was calling my family on a daily basis to tell them I wasn't enough. When I finally found out what was wrong and started having medication I felt better but the words he used to say to me always stuck with me. Even years later, I have good days and bad days. Something as simple as the dishes not washed means that I am a really dirty person. I'm not doing my responsibilities as a woman. I'm teaching my children to be dirty and not clean. When I have a bad day and slump on the sofa, he calls me 'disabled'. He says he has been burdened by me.

What I'm trying to say is, he's always been on the high pedestal whilst treating me like this. He's always told me I'm not good enough. Wanting him or being affectionate with him means I'm sex driven and all I want is his body all the time. I dress up and he doesn't even give me a look in, not even a compliment. Even then, we'll go out and he'll tell me how my sister looked better than me and that I don't know how to dress. I really can't explain. It's not revenge. It's my sanity, it's me shutting his mouth well and truly so he can't torture me anymore. It's me having leverage against him so that he will leave me the hell alone and so will his family.

This is exactly what I've been doing- acting oblivious to everything. How did you find out?

This is the only way I suspect. My friend was 100% certain her husband was unfaithful. It got to the point where he was going to the pub and coming home at 5 am and saying there was a lock in etc.
She went to the pub at 10 pm and his car was parked in the car park. She borrowed a friend’s car and lights off she was waiting in the car park. He came out with a woman and went to her house, lights drawn and his car parked on the drive. She waited outside the house and he came out at 3 am and kissed ‘Lucy’ goodbye and as he walked towards his car my friend confronted him. Of course Lucy was just a friend and it wasn’t a romantic kiss just friends and she was too jealous etc she never got a straight answer and he denied seeing Lucy or having an affair with her. Her husband and Lucy are now married!

You won’t ever get a straight answer ever!!

Why does it matter so much about being disowned by his family ? gay or not he is still abusive and untrustworthy .
I don't mean to be disrespectful by asking this.
Could you go to your own family /parents about this ?
This is no way to live.

Those of us who have been in abusive relationships do understand, I promise.
The sense that you need independent verification of him being a shit.
He’ll still deny, deflect and minimize when he’s confronted, which is why it is better not to engage at all. His family will take his side anyway, don’t give years of your life to keep them happy when they will never acknowledge you over him.
I am guessing you are mid thirties. Fifty year old you is praying you leave that fucker.

Thing is, I don't think that's achievable.

I think whatever evidence you come up with, he will still mindfuck you, gaslight you and blatantly say black is white and the sky is pink His family are heavily invested in believing him, not you, at any cost.

I don't think there's any "winning" at his game other than stepping away from it.

While I can understand you're desperate to prove it and feel stuck until you do so, that's still giving him power.

It's actually OK if he lies about you and makes out you're the problem. You can't change what he's going to say about you.

His opinion doesn't actually matter. Your unhappiness does.

OP I understand the need for proof and your situation seems very difficult. I know this response is going to get flamed but can you not go old school and catfish him? He bloody well deserves it. As in set up a profile yourself pretending to be a man, get random images from reddit, and then start having conversations with him? He is likely to send pics, details about his current situation, arrange a meet of some sort etc.

What would you want to achieve by having proof. He will continue to deny anything as will his family. Your best option is to plan your exit and put your energies into doing that. Drop the rope re getting more proof, it’s not worth wasting any more time or your life on.

What do you want to teach your kids about relationships and what are they learning here?. You have a choice re him, they do not.

What is your culture? What would happen if you left him without proof? This post alone I would show him and his family it is very convincing.
Have you got access to money? Hire a private investigator.
If you can not leave for fear of harm to yourself or children you need to involve police or go to women’s aid, some sort of help for someone in your situation, you can’t keep living like this.

I know first hand from an experience nearly 20 year ago what extent men go to who do not want to say they are gay, or want to hide infidelity, you may never have him admitting anything or anyone else like his family ever knowing or believing you. Please try to accept that as soon as you can and then try to get away from him even if you loose the home or anything financially etc, you’ll have peace of mind

You've already got proof. Everything you've described above is proof. You may never get anything more concrete than evidence of secret trips when he thinks you're asleep.

Your culture is imprisoning you. You only have one life - is this how you want to spend it? If not, say to others that you found proof of an affair but that you're not going to say any more out of respect to him. And to him, say you know he is meeting men but that you won't tell anyone else if he doesn't make it hard for you to leave.

And if he demands to see proof, you can say "I don't want to discuss it with you because you will just deny it and make up excuses." Repeat, repeat.

Contact the Karma Nirvana helpline

OP, I think it's very sad that you belong to a culture that won't simply respect your decision to end it.

Be prepared that even if you do hire a private investigator and they have photos of him with someone else, he may try to claim that;s A.I generated and this is some kind of plot from you to drag his name through the dirt. From the sounds of it, it's likely his family would believe that version. If it's for you, then that's a separate matter, but just consider this before you spend a lot of money on private investigator services.

You’ve already got all the proof for your own sanity. You know he crept out of bed those times.

What proof do you think will be undeniable? This is not a rhetorical question. Comment here with what you think is the “smoking gun” and we will reply explaining how he will deny it until you realise that there is no gold standard proof, you just have to leave him.

I mean this gently but how can he be cheating if he doesn’t go out any more? You mean he’s doing stuff on line?