Continuing an AIBU …

[PithyBeaker]

Just continuing a thread I started a few days ago in AIBU for support as I figure out next steps ending my cohabitation.

What a strange thing to say to someone that you're no longer in a relationship with.

I think it's now time to remind him that he's really starting to come across as desperate and it's not a good look, that he needs to sort his flat out.

He's on the bones of his arse and realises he's only got 4 more days until his DC come to stay with him so I've no doubt that you'll have to be really firm in your ways before he starts ramping up his "lets do this, let's do that" bull and continuing to try breaking you down.

Because you're still talking to him.

You've tried doing this the nice way. It's not working. Now you need to be firm. "Don't contact me, don't turn up at the house. Any further conversation that isn't about getting your stuff and I'll be going to the police for harassment."

It’s a good question. I have wondered it myself and imagined what I would now say if he changed tune and said, fine, let’s live separately. I think I would hear him out. But also I know in my heart of hearts that he will never say it in good faith without an eye on eventually moving back in. So I guess the answer is that I am still hoping he might be who I thought he was but the hope is pretty faded. I am clear that I do not want to live together again. But I am less clear on wanting him out of my life, I guess. That’s the honest answer. I stand prepared to be flamed.

Wanting to come around and hold you, especially when you're so tired, is all about wearing down this clear realisation you've had and appealing only to emotions and physicality. This is his way to get past that clarity and resolve and get back to irrational love that will reset things to how they were. I'm not saying it's cunningly strategic or even intentional that way. No doubt he does want to hold you on some instinctive level like the lost little boy he probably is inside. But you know where that ends - you've described his mother's predicament and there's no way it won't be yours too if you go back to what you had. All talk of him changing is just talk and any promises however sincerely meant are empty, because he's not operating on that level and is only striving to get out of this uncomfortable place (literally and metaphorically) and back into the comforting place with you in your home. That is all the fix he needs and nothing you need.

Gosh but you're going to have to stay strong as he pulls on your heart strings and plays every card, crossing boundaries and distracting you from moving on.

It’s just a bit much and not really in line with how pathetic he is being. Sorry, but this is unnecessarily cruel.

“No doubt he does want to hold you on some instinctive level like the lost little boy he probably is inside.”

bingo.

For as long as you respond to his requests and attempts to communicate manipulate you, you won’t be rid of him.

You have to strengthen your boundaries and go GREY ROCK.

Start a new email address and block him on everything else.

I know he really wants to avoid having to tell his X and deal w fallout w kids. Once Friday passes I think he will back off bc the worst for him will be over.

He was not a good role model around your child

Partner's home life modeled chaos and misogyny and sexist overwork and he repeated that pattern and brought that into your home and modeled that for your son. You had to threaten to kick him out to stop his verbal abuse. He doesn't respect your no. He showed up unannounced to try to talk you into letting him back in when you were trying to get ready for your work day. That's really disrespectful. If you keep him in your life, your son sees that's ok.

I don't know him but I grew up with a father a bit like him and have seen a few parasites in action and believe me, you are better off without this guy.

As for him wanting to come over, you know he's just going to show up with the puppy dog sad eyes. He doesn't respect your no. It's time for consequences for that.

He doesn’t get it because you keep talking to him. There might be boundaries but they aren’t working. Just turning up with breakfast.
You think you’ve held firm by going outside just for 10 minutes but he will see that as a little victory.
And many little victories get him a big win.
You think you are holding the line because he’s out of the house, you’ve said no to him returning.
But at some point if you keep in contact the ‘nice’ him will turn up.
The thing is if you were made homeless for some reason, do you honestly think he’d be pursuing you. If you suddenly couldn’t work due to illness would he be offering to be your carer?
Come on OP, you know in your heart.
The ONLY way to deal with him that will benefit you is to say no to everything, block and grey rock.
It is bloody hard. The nights are tough and he just wants to hold you? Sounds lovely, but what he doesn’t want to do is grow up and learn to be a full-on practical parent to his own children.
Sounds like he’s never had to be anything other than a young man who has been catered to by a woman. It doesn’t make him a monster but at this points little gestures all mean nothing.
Sustained change which comes from him alone over time is the only thing that will get him to grow up.
And that won’t happen while he thinks there is a way in. Unless you are prepared to grey rock, he will keep coming back and back.

It may turn out to be necessary.

His being "pathetic" does not mean you are morally obliged to provide for his wants and needs.

Sometimes extreme clarity, firmness, and the threat of a response they will like even less, are the only way to get a person to hear what they really would rather not hear.

Yes! Bizarrely, when I was splitting up from my first husband he was furious with me for sleeping in the spare room. At bedtime, he would jab his finger at the bedroom we once shared and say "You should be comforting me through this!"

ME "comforting" him?!?!? 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

Which just makes this all sadder really.

His flopping to save himself the only way he knows how and when he fails come Friday night you’ll be back to being all the C’s and money hungry when mr nice guy hasn’t worked.

He might not be a monster but he is an idiot following a playlist when things are not going their way.

But the problem is, you're giving off mixed signals. You're asking us why he's not getting it, but then a couple of posts later saying that you'd give him another chance if he agreed to live separately. That's why he's not getting it.

You're not sure you want it to be over, so why on earth would he be. You go out and sit in the car with him, you reply to his messages, that's making him think there's still a chance. Arguably, that's crueller than cutting him off cold.

For what it's worth, I think you've done a hell of a job over the last few days, from your first aibu across this thread. You've accepted there's a massive issue, and you've dealt with it decisively.

But you're hoping there's something to salvage here, and it's in danger of tripping you up at the last hurdle. There's not, and I think you know that really.

It depends on how much he carries on doing it.

I suspect it's not intended as harassment at this point. You have potentially reached that threshold though and you need to be aware of this in case he does continue to not take the word no as an answer.

You aren't ready for that yet, but if he persists and you really want shot of him you may eventually run out of options.

Just keep it on your radar for now. You have asked him clearly not to do something explicit and he's overriding and ignoring it.

This doesn't bode well if you were to give some ground. He is happy to break your boundaries and not listen to you when you are explicit. So all the words he's spouting are even more worthless and meaningless in this context.

Even now what you are saying is still irrelevant. It's still only about him and what he wants.

I'm starting to think you're going to have to spell it out for him.
No, you can't come round and "hold me" (how deluded is that)
I don't want you.
I don't want a relationship with you.

He needs to work out how to get himself a place big enough to house his children. Then parent his children.
Then get a housekeeper.

You're not available as you'll be living your best life. 🥳

Do you feel like he’s trying to get you to do more things he can blame you for? It might be kinder and better for both of you to disengage entirely.

This is the kind of thing you do to your parents as a child, negative engagement so you can wheedle and argue your point and they can patiently explain over and over.

Not trying to get at you OP, you do whatever works for you, but feel free to call time on this stage of the process, if he wants to carry on he can find someone else to listen.

Is that actually what the draw is? You talk about his childhood and chaos and upbringing, but what about yours? What buttons does a lost little boy that needs rescuing/looking after press in you? What scenario from your own past are you replaying, hoping for a different ending?

He should really tell them now to give the kids some time to get used to it and a chance for alternative plans to be made if they don’t want to live in his 1 bed flat for a whole week. It’s not your problem anymore but he’s being really stupid by holding off telling them about this major change to their life, which will be sprung on them on Friday.

“Sounds like he’s never had to be anything other than a young man who has been catered to by a woman. It doesn’t make him a monster but at this points little gestures all mean nothing.
Sustained change which comes from him alone over time is the only thing that will get him to grow up.”

This is exactly it. And ‘alone over time’ - I know. This is exactly why I asked him to move out and stand on his own.

I know. I almost messaged his X to give her a heads up but he asked me to let him tell her and I think that’s fair.

He's really crossing the line, expecting physical contact from you. He doesn't get to bring you breakfast either, he had plenty of chances to do that when he was with you. What planet is he on?
If you do end up letting him back in this time it will be easier to stick to your resolve next time you split. Sometimes it takes a couple of tries to do it properly, be kind to yourself.

I'm not so sure. I don't think him having his DC starting Friday will change things. If anything, it may make him worse.

Before I begin my 'lecture', I want to say that I do respect your right to handle this as you choose. BUT (isn't there always a but when people say that?) I agree w/PPs that he isn't getting your message. And I think it is because you keep allowing him to step over your boundaries. You tell him not to come over unannounced and he continues to do so. Why? Because you're allowing him to step over that boundary.

I understand that he's not a 'monster' and you're trying to be compassionate to his upbringing, but part of what he needs to do is to learn that he isn't entitled to walk over other people to get what he wants. You sticking to your boundaries is a way of showing him that. So, if you want to change your thinking to make it more favorable to your 'peace', think that you'd be doing him a favour by refusing to engage with him if he just shows up. And by having someone 'on the lookout' on Friday and who will refuse him and his DC entry before they reach the door if they do show up. Not you. It needs to be someone else.

"a long-ago relationship that I tried to improve but ended up breaking it off. (He was also not a monster but a bit of a fantasist, always assuming things would work out and overestimating his influence with others.)
He was so shocked and I said we’ve talked about this already, you knew I wasn’t happy. He said something like “Yes but I didn’t know you were serious!” 🧐😀 Some people will only prioritise you after threats and tantrums (if then) and who wants to be in that relationship??"

I think this is particularly prevalent among men, and it reflects a fundamental sexist and disrespectful view of women - ie that women are always moaning, nagging, and emotional. They deal with it by ignoring their wife or tuning her out or pretending to listen while making soothing noises, in the hope that she'll eventually shut up. So these guys are ALWAYS "blindsided" when their wife - who has tried for years to be listened to - leaves. It's so common that divorce lawyers have a term for it: Walk Away Wife.

This pattern also requires a socialised male laziness and complacency towards relationships. A PP above mentioned how her H basically thought that once he'd "got the girl", that was it, he didn't have to work at the relationship anymore. I think this thinking is also extremely common among men, including in otherwise decent men. And on listening to women talking about dating, it's also obviously still very prevalent in the younger generations: the guys perform what they think Women (we're seen as a homogeneous mass) want, they put on this charming and manipulative mask, but once they've tricked their way into their target's bed, affections, and trust, they can relax and "be themselves", much to the bafflement and hurt of the woman.

i think both of these things - disrespect for women and relational laziness - were operating in your ex, OP, and both led directly to this rupture. These are very deeply rooted and heavily reinforced patriarchal attitudes, it takes a lot of active learning and effort and self-control to change them. I don't get the feeling that he's anywhere near that, because what's happening now is him plastering on his charming mask again and launching a new campaign to trick his way back into your life (and house).

This is worrying op. I get that you're being amicable but he doesn't want that , he just wants to harass you into submission. This won't stop until you block him and possibly call the police.