Boyfriend in his 30s is wonderful but rarely wants sex

[RoseKitten]

My boyfriend and I are both in our 30s. I love him deeply. He is kind, very attentive, ambitious, good with my friends, family and nieces, and very attractive. He goes to the gym 5x a week, and it shows: he is in incredible shape. I dream of marrying and having children with this man. I know he would be a wonderful husband and father.

However, he seems uninterested in sex. I knew something was a bit 'off' when we first started dating: he didn't invite me to his place until about date 7 or 8, and that was only because I basically invited myself around. When I went around, I was expecting to stay the night (although it wasn't explicitly discussed), but he told me he had to go to bed early because he needed to be up at 4am, so he dropped me back at about 10pm.

When we do have sex, it's fantastic. He is an amazing lover, and I find him so physically attractive, but we don't have sex enough for my liking, and I just feel it is not important to him. He very rarely initiates, and he always wants to take me out rather than spend time with me at home. Maybe I am being paranoid, but he seems to do everything possible to spend as little time as possible at my place or his.

Some other things that did/do not 'add up' for me:

• After about date 5 or 6, we were WhatsApping one night, and I asked when he would invite me around. He wrote something like, "Netflix and chill is low-effort. I need to take you out to nice places." I wrote, "The "chill" part is nice, though, no? ;)" He then wrote, "If you want a f*boy, I am not the man for you."
• Despite his seeming lack of interest in sex, he has no problem showing me affection (kissing, holding hands etc.) in public, and he DOES initiate these things most of the time.
• I am a bit ashamed to admit this, but I did once go through his phone when he was out of the room, and there was nothing in there that suggests he is cheating.
• As I said at the start of the message, going to the gym is a big part of his life, and he looks amazing. He is also quite particular about his appearance - teeth, hair, skin, everything. I know the gym and grooming etc. have all sorts of benefits, but surely one of them is to look sexually attractive. In other words, I've always felt that men who put so much effort into their appearances do so at least in part because sex is important to them, and they want to look as good as possible for it, yet... sex is not a priority for him.

To finishing things up, 98%, 99% of our relationship is so good, but this final 1-2% is so important, yet I feel almost greedy wanting it. I want to discuss it with him, but a) I don't know how to approach it, b) I am not worried about his reaction (we have discussed difficult topics before, and he has always been calm, respectful, understanding and helpful), but I am worried that he may tell me something I have not prepared for.

So,

1. What do you think the issue(s) may be?
2. How do I approach discussing them with him?

Thank you.

she isn't!

She is being sexually coercive. She's framing him not fucking her enough as a sexual deficiency in him that needs to be treated with hormonal drugs and counselling. There is an unspoken THREAT here: fuck me more or I'm going to be upset and angry and punish you or I'm going to leave.

Sexual coercion is defined as a person using pressure, manipulation, or threats so that the other person feels they cannot freely say “no” to sex. The decision to fuck is no longer truly voluntary. Consent to sex must be given enthusiastically and freely. No one has the right to sex. NO ONE.

Forcing someone to get hormone therapy and sex counselling is also a serious infringement of their bodily and mental autonomy. No one has the right to coerce other people to get medical treatment. Not doctors, not family, not sexual partners. NO ONE.

This man is not interested in more frequent sex for whatever reason - low desire, gay, childhood trauma, ND, whatever. There is nothing WRONG with him. He doesn't have to change for OP, or get medical treatment. That's who he is. OP either respects that or she leaves.

If she doesn't respect that, she's a sex pest and an abuser.

No better than the men who badger their exhausted postpartum wife for sex. No better than the man who does nothing around the house and punishes the whole household with his moods because his wife, who is turned off by his shit behaviour, doesn't want to have sex with him. No better than the man who grabs his wife's breasts and puts his hand down her pants whenever he feels like it. No better than the man who insists on twice-weekly sex with his menopausal wife despite her protests that it hurts and she doesn't want it.

OP, knock off your feeling of entitlement to his body. It's disgusting.

Um, some of the last examples are rape/SA. Obviously op is not as bad as men who do that. She isn’t forcing him by any stretch or even manipulating him.

Agree hormone therapy is an excessive for a new relationship, if you don’t like it and he won’t change, too bad. You accept it and move on, but you can’t try to mould someone into the perfect partner if they aren’t willing. In an established relationship if sex is infrequent (say less than 1x a per month) it makes sense to get to the bottom of it rather than divorcing on a whim.

An hour 🙀🙀🙀

a quickie can be just as sexy and good

tbh the thought of an hour session would make me ahhhhhhhhhh

yes sometimes lots of foreplay etx and 30/45/60mins

but nothing wrong with less time

but well done for having a chat

I think you're both a bit controlling. His "40 minute fuck or don't bother at all" is really odd and he perhaps views sex as performance, but your "send him off for tests" thing is pretty off too - he's not an appliance that you've bought. It looks like mismatched sex drives and poor communication. As I said, initiate a bit more and see whether he joins in or rebuffs/makes excuses. He seems rather avoidant, generally not just of sex.

As someone who has been in a bit of a similar position with my own partner (me having higher sex drive, wonderful when we did have sex, more than I could ask for as a partner in every other way) I can tell you as long as communication is open and there is patience then there is light at the end of the tunnel. I realized part of it was my issue as I related him wanting to sex to me feeling "seen & wanted" amongst other things, and also expecting it to be how it was at the beginning for us which is unsustainable with busy lives. We are now at 1-2 times per week and I am more than happy with it. It should always be quality over quantity in a loving relationship IMO. My partner has a few mental health issues which did link to the lack of sex at times. But we kept talking about it when needed, and came through the other end (excuse the pun). What I will say in my professional opinion is that the above conversation you had was a very good one. Nothing more I love to see than honest communication. We also saw a sex therapist for a bit which is definitely worth a try, even if it doesn't suit you both at least it's a different perspective. What I will say though is a sex therapist will very likely ask you to abstain from full sex whilst working on things with them at first so there is less pressure and it builds desire. Like some have said a quickie is a good idea as it's exciting and also sometimes just pleasing eachother without the other receiving can be a nice change. I wish you both all the luck x

Careful with that reach, you might strain yourself.

Nowhere does it say that OP is sexually coercing her boyfriend or feels entitled to his body and grabs him randomly. OP merely sounds concerned and understandably upset that he seems to have a very low sex drive (for whatever reason) and that her sexual needs are not being met. I've NEVER in all my years had a greater sex drive than the man I was with so I imagine it is more unusual situation that the other way around. OP is allowed to feel frustrated. Of course that doesn't mean she can launch herself at himself whenever the mood takes her - she never said she did, but having a healthy sex drive is NOT disgusting in itself. As you say, it may be that he has unresolved childhood trauma or other issues. Counselling may help. There's nothing wrong with OP gently opening up a converation and exploring what might help him if he wants to go down that route in a bid to save the relationship/ improve the mismatch... but yes ultimately it's up to him and if OP cannot live with that situation then they'd be better off apart and he'd be better off with someone who has an equally low sex drive.
Having said all that I don't always feel in the mood, but I'm certainly not 'disgusted' if my husband randomly grabs my boobs because we get on and I like to feel desired by him. He's my husband and I love and fancy him. I'm not offended by that. It makes me laugh....and, shock horror, it might actually get me in the mood! Also, I'll occassionally/randomly grabs his bits too if I'm passing by. We have an understanding. We're both happy with that. It's whatever works for you/is acceptable within your relationship. Nuance and understanding is everything in this case.

Maybe he's just got a low sex drive?

The tea/ consent video is great.

However. OP is not trying to coerce or threaten him, so it's not relevant here. She's not said or implied 'have sex with me or else'

She's not forcing him to do anything.

She's simply trying to understand where her partner is coming from, given that a young man who doesn't want much sex is unusual, to determine whether they are compatible or not. To determine whether she should stay with him or whether they'd both be happier if they parted.

Would you shame a man like this for wanting sex?

well said

Maybe he's just got a very low sex drive, the thing is would you be happy to accept that's how my life is with him or do you want a lot more..

She's said her piece. But now telling him he needs to take testosterone and/or sex counselling so that she gets more dick is completely controlling and infringing his bodily and mental autonomy. That's coercive and creepy. And fucking disrespectful and entitled.

It's not an acceptable way for anyone to treat another person, regardless of their individual sex.

Op's sexual wants do NOT come before this guy's right to be who he is sexually, regardless of the reason he is like that.

And build-a-boy/girl approaches to relationships never work anyway, because the resulting relationships are not authentic.

These two are incompatible.

@LouiseMadetheBestBroccoliPasta Genuine question: In a situation like OP's, is it being coercive to have a discussion about the sex mismatch? Is it best to take the lack of enthusiasm as proof of the pudding and just break up, saying that you don't think you're well-matched but not specifying bedroom-wise? Asking because your post says:

She's framing him not fucking her enough as a sexual deficiency in him that needs to be treated with hormonal drugs and counselling.

As far as I'm aware, these things are usually recommended when one person's libido is flagging in a marriage. I know OP isn't married. However, if I'm ever in OP's position, the last thing I'd want is to be a sex pest. You sound very informed on the finer points of consent. So is the right and proper thing to do to basically take the hint that they don't want more sex and break up with the person, rather than discussing the issue? I think your post seems to imply that a discussion could create pressure and a threat that you'll leave them if they don't have sex with you more. Is that what you meant?

Thanks in advance!

Hmm... it's just that this is fair enough:
When we do have sex, it's fantastic. He is an amazing lover, and I find him so physically attractive, but we don't have sex enough for my liking, and I just feel it is not important to him

...but wanting him investigated/medicated/"diagnosed" for this is taking things a bit far?

It would be a pity if women have been brainwashed into judging the success of their relationship on how often they're having sex. It wasn't such a top priority for my parents or grandparents, and I've found that men who don't place it at the top of their to-do list make stable, grounded partners.

OP is entitled to want more sex (if that's really what she wants, and not just more reassurance). He is entitled to be less interested in it. They can talk it over and try things out, but pathologising him for it is unfair. This is what was once considered normal.

It wasn't such a top priority for my parents or grandparents, and I've found that men who don't place it at the top of their to-do list make stable, grounded partners.

@Beachtastic I'm intrigued as to how you know this! Have you had intimate discussions with those people? Do you talk to your own mum or gran about how much sex they wanted?

I am quite old enough to be the OP's mum (in fact my kids are older than she is) and I can assure you that we were just as interested in hot sex when choosing a partner. Good grief- we were the Woodstock and flower power generation.

Sorry but you're the one being patronising if you think women are brainwashed into thinking sex and the frequency is important.

As for men not putting it at the top of their to-do list- what an odd observation! People have different sex drives. The issue here is the OP and her partner's are different. That's the problem.

People have different sex drives. The issue here is the OP and her partner's are different. That's the problem.

Yes, but he's not offering to medicate her to dampen down her sex drive! Or (presumably) discussing her online to get a diagnosis of her wickedness!

Re sex being "top of the list", I'm not being ageist. I just probably come from a dull family 🌞

(ETA: Yes, back when DM was alive I did talk to her about this and have a pretty good idea what she and her mother's generation expected from marriage)

As far as I'm aware, these things are usually recommended when one person's libido is flagging in a marriage

The key things here are “flagging” (ie lower than it used to be) and the fact that this advice is generally suggested to a woman concerned about her own sex drive. A man on here wanting his wife to take HRT against her wishes to increase her libido would get short shrift!

The chap in the current scenario just has a lower libido than OP. Fairly sure that’s not in itself something requiring medical treatment! I agree with PP that some of the posts on here are basically suggesting coercion.

ETA: Yes, back when DM was alive I did talk to her about this and have a pretty good idea what she and her mother's generation expected from marriage)

It'd be interesting to know what year your mum was born if you're willing to share. Or how old you are now.

That' s just one anecdotal example and (being honest) your mum may have had a low sex drive, not enjoyed sex, or your father may not have either.

It was a different world back then.
If your mum was born in the 1920- 1930s, marriage 'back then' was more about finding a man to put a roof over your head and perhaps have children. Women 'made do' with all kinds of set ups for financial security (and many still do now.)

Women earned less and their choices were narrower. Very few could support themselves and buy a house. Until the early 1970s women weren't able to get a mortgage on their own.

Sex before marriage was frowned on, unmarried mothers were a scandal, contraception wasn't available to unmarried women so many abstained till they married and then it was too late if they found sex drives were incompatible.

Also, men (sadly) were far less educated about sex and women's bodies, and were often focused on their own pleasure.

I don't think looking back 80 or 100 years is good enough to say that's what women should accept now. It all changed in the 1960s.

I don't agree with the OP thinking about him having tests, because I think the answer is communication and if that doesn't change anything, walk away or put up and shut up, as they say!

Yes, I'm in my 60s.

What you say is all very true.

However, I do remember noticing how the Pill - rather than entirely liberating me and my friends - seemed to put us all under more pressure to have sex, with no "excuses" not to. And I'm just a little wary of how marketing and media have piled on us over the years to hammer home the vital importance of being sexy. It keeps the wheels of consumerism turning.

I'm not anti-consumerism (grateful for all my 21st-century trivial luxuries!), but think it has distorted people's view of themselves and where they get their feelings of self-worth. We can't look at anything now without seeing the same questions screamed at us: Are you sexy enough? Are you doing it often enough? Is your sex life exciting enough?

You're right that options were once very limited, which was sad, but on the other hand I do kind of miss the days when sex was excitingly naughty and there was nothing wrong with you for pottering around the garden or tinkering with the car at the weekend, instead of fretting whether you'd met your prescribed weekly tally of hot shags!

As always, human progress is a double-edged sword...

I think it's more social media to blame rather than simply changing attitudes. At one time not that long ago, these conversations were limited to 'best friends' rather than being all over the web.

It's also worth recognising that my (our?) parents' generation often married as virgins, so they had nothing to compare and were saddled with whatever they got, bar divorce or an affair.

Yes - social media, plus the media in general and marketing. Although I suppose I've had an eye-poppingly lively sex life compared with my parents' generation (which as you say would not be difficult!), I think this constant "invisible scorecard" making us anxious about not meeting some minimum performance requirement has become more insistent over the past couple of decades.

"So is the right and proper thing to do to basically take the hint that they don't want more sex and break up with the person, rather than discussing the issue? I think your post seems to imply that a discussion could create pressure and a threat that you'll leave them if they don't have sex with you more."

Yes, the most moral and sensible approach would be to break up. What OP has done with her talk is put pressure on the BF to have more sex: it will be very clear to him that a condition of her continuing the relationship is that he has sex with her more often.

Putting aside the issue of sexual coercion for now, this conditionality is counterproductive because it's forcing him to have sex at a pace that does not match his natural sexual desire. (Tbh, I suspect the current pace already greatly exceeds his natural sexual desire). This will have two effects. First, he won't be able to sustain that pace over the long-term, meaning that OP down the line will again not have the amount of sex she wants - but by then she might not be able to leave so easily because of financial/child entanglements. Second, sexual desire is a flimsy psychological thing - it is easily obliterated by coercion. So his natural desire will likely drop to an even lower point than it is now (to -2 perhaps, which is entering sexual aversion territory).

Looking now at the issue of sexual coercion, it's not the BF's fault that his natural sexual desire is at 1 on the 1-10 scale. He's not sick, not defective, not pathological, in fact not in any way abnormal. Nor is it OP's fault that her natural sexual desire is at 7 (or whatever). But it IS wrong for her to expect him to partake in level-7 sex that he doesn't want. And I strongly suspect that he doesn't want that level of sex because if he did want level-7 sex, he'd be HAVING level-7 sex - OP was clearly not shutting him down, in fact, she was trying to make opportunities for more sex.

The worst thing about this thread, though, is that OP wants BF to get hormonal treatment and see a sex therapist. She's pathologised his level-1 sex drive and is essentially trying to Build-A-Boyfriend with the aid of medical science. It's objectifying and dehumanising. It's not OK.

With regard to whether OP should tell him she's breaking up with him because of his level-1 sex drive, I wouldn't, because there are already ridiculous amounts of pressure on men to perform sexually and portray themselves as alpha studs. All this stupid patriarchical stereotyping has led to men not being authentic with themselves or anyone else, resulting in them harming themselves and others. Why consolidate this pressure?

OP said "ideally I would like" which you seem to be taking as her frogmarching him down the doctors or therapist.

Surely there are ways of making a suggestion and talking over options that are not coercive?

The problem here is that she wants him assessed and treated because of a problem for her. We haven't heard that his sex drive is a problem for him.

In a way, it's like a man asking a woman to have breast enlargement, or take Mounjaro, in order for him to find her more sexually attractive.