Might need to leave home tonight with DS, big fight with H!

[DexterMorgansmum]

Hi I have another thread on here that spans months where I have been waiting and biding my time till son finishes Nat 5s this May for us to leave home, or to ask H to leave - H also said he might leave in August. Things have been strained with some almost normal like days where conversation is pleasant, but some ugly scenes now and then
Think H thinks when push comes to shove we love him and hence we will stay - we do love him as family (with him 23 years) but I dont think we can stay anymore

Today, he had some sort of blow up verbally with DS15 (turns 16 this weekend !, and we are in Scotland) and he asked DS15 to stop rolling his eyes and show respect, he needs to study 2 hours a day etc the usual - suddenly I heard him from upstairs say to DS to leave home and come back when ready to apologise -its 8pm pitch dark cold and lonely at this time of year outside in west lothian outside edinburgh

I went with son which angered H further , we walked around the estate once and came back as I could not walk anymore in the cold - I promised him if he gave a fake apology for now, we could discuss what to do when back upstairs warm and dry
So, my son does not want to wait till summer hols and wants us to leave now - he has already texted his friend and said his father's body langauge was physically threatening toward me , his mum, when I said I was going to go out with him and would not let him walk around alone (instead of siding with H on the too harsh punishment)
I am thinking of either taking a taxi tomm morning and getting a hotel room near DS school as Nat 5 assignments this week and he cant take more than one day off I would have thought at max - or to wait till saturday and then we leave. Hotel till funds run out and find an air bnb /spareroom co.uk/ rental. as early as possible. I have told son if there is any intimidation by H tonight I will call the police , I almost think DS was planning to just stay out as late as he dared tonight if I had not gone with him, and how safe would that have been for him???
I cant let this go on.....

Even though I have known for a while H leaves me with no choice, my mind is still extremely confused about taking this step , now instead of slowly over the summer.
Any advice pls ?

Unfortunately that reaction is not unheard of in certain generations/cultural context. I have a 35 year old friend whose father doesn't want to meet her white partner of 10 years. Non-marriage non-convential relationships can be such a taboo, as I'm sure you know.

Do consider specialist support like this one https://shaktiedinburgh.co.uk/

Please, please do consider staying it Scotland. Your son presumably has friends there that will support him, and the free uni education will make such a difference in your financial prospects.

@DexterMorgansmum

That is absolutely disgusting of your sister. But are you sure the rest of your family feels this way? If you've only heard it from her perhaps she's speaking out of turn. Is there any way you could put out 'feelers' with any of your family? It might be worth it if you want confirmation or hopefully you'll be pleasantly surprised.

I don't have the 'cultural' influences you have it was more 'religious' influences, but I had one particular aunt on my dad's side who was in the 'divorce is a scandal and a sin' category many decades ago when I divorced my first H. She was shouted down by the rest of the family, including her own DC.

No matter what happens, in the words of AA Milne's Christopher Robin: "Always remember that you are braver than you believe, stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think"

You'll get through this.

You can do it by yourself. You don't need other people to permit you to leave or to facilitate it for you.

There are so many of us who have fled without looking back, stayed in temporary accommodation and taken our power and autonomy back over our own lives. It feels good to be able to say you did it yourself and your child will notice.

I don’t think your sister has the authority to warn you away from cousins ect and to isolate yourself. There is no shame in leaving, our grandmas did not have the financial autonomy to leave unhappy marriages. Women only started gaining “freedoms” from 1960’s onwards so don’t let anyone inflict this kind of thought process on you. You don’t have to put up with this kind of abuse, whatever ethnic background you come from. And why would you be alone in old age? No reason at all! I have friends in Asian community who are divorced and they are fine, partners ect. It must feel awful hearing all this awful crap from your sister. Stay strong and resolute.

@AcrossthePond55 and everyone who posted yesterday, thank you so much.

The kindness here made me cry - there are so many good people out there, you ladies are proof of that , it gave me hope yesterday.

Just couldn't reply yesterday as had a mini meltdown with all the crying and then felt sick. Still not okay today but better.

Dsis called up last night, apologised, cried and insisted I come to her town not Dcousin's. Don't know why that was not the initial response and what happened but I accepted the apology but said I would stick to near my uni friend if moving, it would still be a lot closer either ways than now.

H knew about what went on - as my DM also called a few times as I was crying the whole day like literally someone had died.

As you all predicted, I don't think now that he could have meant it 100pc seriously about leaving to retire in India in August near his dad - he seemed completely shocked that I was making real plans to move, he appeared embarrassed that I was telling everyone he had consistently been saying he was leaving because of DS not getting all As, his own constant grumpiness, his depression and moods etc.

He took DS out for a burger in the evening and told him 'I am going to try my best to never argue with your mother again, I promise...I will just keep silent and talk to a minimum to keep the family peace but won't be grumpy...' yada yada....DS never told me this but H texted it to me re their convo.

I know my plan changes again and again since Nov, but now my plan is to go ahead and move over the summer to near his Dcousin in BKshire, or my friend in Herts - just to give me and DS our fresh start, if he comes along with us I think either ways - things will improve - with all family around, he will either have to improve his behaviours and we can see where we go from there to at least amicably separated under the same roof for two more years etc - or having family around, gives us the strength to separate if that is what we decide to do once we are there. I just think whatever is going to happen, it will only once family is close by - his aunt whom he is quite close to visits his Dcousin regularly and I just feel all of the 'village elders' presence will provide traction for progress whatever happens, we won't stay stuck in this rut that just feels like a slow spiral downward.

Thank you all for your advice - I know this is not the bold courageous sweeping move many of you hoped to see , but I am moving this along in a slower subtler way to improve quality of life for me and my DS in the only way I am capable of I suppose. I just can't help but think an abrupt separation here will allow any rumors to fuel there as to how things fell apart - it will be good for the family to see how he is and understand my situation before I leave - for a bit at least. He is good at charming facade from a distance for the past 18-20 years now.

Thanks again to all those who followed this for almost a month now...... can't find the words to express my gratitude, I know you may not see progress but I do not think I would even have gotten to this place from where I was three weeks ago without you all......

Honestly OP.

Your son wants to go to medical school - why would you leave Scotland. Do you have any idea what medical school debt burden would be around his neck if he applies to the UK. UK Uni student loans are a burden that is stopping people from finding a decent place to live.

Visit your family often.. but my advice (for what its worth) is that your son will have a MUCH easier life as a student, and post grad, staying in Scotland.
You yourself can move to family when he has a uni place in Scotland.

Also. I wouldn't place any reliance on family who behave as changeably as your sister has.

Any new home, where your son can flourish will be a fresh start.

Stop worrying about Rumours. Who gives a damn what others think. If you hear a falsehood confront them and deny it. And even if they think that - so what. People split up and get divorced all the time. Others are not as interested as you think they are. And if they are nasty about the split.. just cut them out of your life. You don't have to move 300 miles away to escape them. Just block them.

I would play the longer game. He is very repentant now, so now is the time to make your move to say if you want peace civilly marry me in the next few days .... If you can get him to do that for you power in separation or divorce will follow.

@DexterMorgansmum yiu are dealing with stuff most of us never have to. I am no expert on this and I am so sorry you have it so tough and feel that so much is out of your hands.

I am also quite worried that your husband will spend the next 6 months absolutely shafting you financially. Please please be very careful and get legal advice early, especially in regard to protecting your share of the assets. Any question marks over the legality of your marriage in the UK make you even more vulnerable so it is really important to get advice early and listen to it. Protecting your assets and your legal documents is so important.

Thank you spoke to a few family members and also online research, all of our marriages even the ones that happened abroad within the Hindu community are legally recognised and valid here I am told .....

Yes — in almost all cases, your marriage will be legally valid and recognised in the UK.
Here’s why:
1️⃣ Marriage performed in India
If you were legally married in India in 2004 under the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955 and the marriage was properly registered, then it is a valid marriage under Indian law.
2️⃣ How UK law treats overseas marriages
Under UK law, a marriage is recognised if:

• It was legally valid in the country where it took place, and
• It complied with that country’s marriage laws at the time.

The UK does not require you to re-register a foreign marriage.

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff , I am hoping free grammar school there for sixth form will save a lot on private here as is currently - to offset uni - but I do see your point and that will probably be the main thing to plan around re moving.

He has also recently expressed interest in Psychology or Bio-med/pharma at Oxbridge if doesn't get the grades for med......

I am more worried about crime and teen drugs etc in a new place actually with the move - if I get the postcode and school wrong, when applying - doing the research now to try and have a good plan.....

@DexterMorgansmum

My friend, I will not criticize your decision. It is your life and you must do what feels right for you and DS. BUT (isn't there always a but?) I would recommend that in your 'fresh start' you have everything in your name and that you keep finances separate. If you plan to sell and buy in your new place if I were you I'd see a solicitor about drawing up an agreement as to what will happen with this house in the event this 'new start' doesn't work out. In fact, if I were you I'd probably proceed with at the very least a legal separation and division of property. Then I'd purchase on my own with my share. With a legal separation you still remain married but all property is divided the same way as in a divorce.

Unfortunately your marriage is now built on shifting sands rather than the rock you thought it was on. Your primary objective needs to be to secure your financial stability. The marriage should come second to that.

As far as his behaviour making a permanent change remember the old adage "You might sponge the spots off a leopard, but he remains a leopard just the same".

I wish you and DS the best of luck and much happiness.

Have you contacted any of these schools to see if there may even be a space for your son in Sept ?!

Grammar schools are very popular - have a read of the current threads re entry for this Sept for year 7's etc. and realise how many parents have at least one offer from an excellent fee paying school but are holding out to see if they get a space in a non fee paying school.

Why haven't you been to see a solicitor, OP?

https://www.lawscot.org.uk/find-a-solicitor/

Why haven't you been to see a solicitor, OP?

https://www.lawscot.org.uk/find-a-solicitor/

Two years at free Grammar school? Will not offset a medical student's loans. As far as I know.. medical courses are at least 5 years.
I'm not an expert but I think you need to work this out carefully with someone who is. If you both move to UK, he will be treated as a UK based student. If he keeps his Scottish address - it may be different. It sounds from your post as if you don't know but you are making major choices based on this.

In the meantime. This has a good summary, but you'd need to see what would apply in your son's particular case. Can his school careers dept advise? www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-scotland/

I do know several people in employment, post uni who are struggling to service their student debt and save for housing. Long after you have split from your DH and are living in a new place, your son will be dealing with his student debts.

Hi @DuckbilledSplatterPuff , think you mean RUK (rest of UK) as differentiated from Scotland

Scotland is part of the UK

I could cry right now dear @AcrossthePond55 . H has been convincing DS to stay here and not move with south , last night. Is it not hilarious?
After months of threatening us that he will move out of UK in protest and disgust at DS's grades not being A's and a whole host of other minor ridiculous 'complaints' against us - he now is working to stay with DS in Scotland , so is okay with Bs now rather than moving to England.

You can't make this stuff up .....

I now (equally pig-headedly) feel the answer to all the verbal abuse in my marriage is indeed to move near the extended family structure as it were, southwards. Even if it is only as far as Birmingham to the Med cousin.

Yet another reason to have differences of opinion - but at least H is now waiting till DS has gone to school to have any discussions and not when DS is at home. This holding pattern of a semi peace will continue till the Nat 5s tide over in May hopefully.

Yes started reading the secondary education board past couple of days @OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon . And mapping the league table to Herts and BKshire - MK, LB, Watford etc - as well as rentals and property prices in these places. I want to move over the school summer hols.

decided since I'm not the right scottish religion Id ask AI

While there are few organisations in Scotland specifically dedicated solely to Hindu divorced women, there are several cultural, religious, and minority-focused resources that provide support, community, and legal guidance for women in this position.
Support Organisations & Resources

• mwrc.org.uk/&ved=2ahUKEwiq26yrrYaTAxXtY0EAHacLAVYQy_kOegYIAQgEEAE&opi=89978449&cd&psig=AOvVaw214NQiv3fBCDIhnBua0Z08&ust=1772717472972000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Amina – The Muslim Women's Resource Centre: Despite the name, this organisation is an intersectional body that supports Minority Ethnic (ME) women across Scotland. They offer 1-1 services, group activities, and support for women facing barriers related to divorce, domestic abuse, or financial hardship.
• indianladiesuk.org/forums/forum/confused/divorce/&ved=2ahUKEwiq26yrrYaTAxXtY0EAHacLAVYQy_kOegYIAQgEEAM&opi=89978449&cd&psig=AOvVaw214NQiv3fBCDIhnBua0Z08&ust=1772717472972000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Indian Ladies UK (ILUK): This is a prominent community for Indian women living in the UK, including Scotland. They host a dedicated online forum for divorce where members share advice on legal matters and emotional support.
• Scottish Hindu Foundation: Though not strictly a support group for divorcees, they represent the wider Hindu community and can often provide connections to local temple-based support or community leaders who can offer spiritual guidance.
• Shakti Women's Aid: A specialist service in Scotland for Black and Minority Ethnic (BME) women experiencing domestic abuse. They are highly experienced in the specific cultural nuances of South Asian divorce, including issues like dowry recovery or community stigma.

Cultural & Religious Context

• Community Perception: Within the South Asian community in the UK, including Scotland, divorce has historically carried a significant social stigma. Some women report being treated as "outsiders" or facing pressure to stay in unhappy marriages due to the religious view of marriage as a lifelong commitment.
• Spiritual Support: Many Hindu women find comfort in continued prayer and ritual. Modern religious views often emphasise that being divorced does not change one's spiritual standing or right to perform religious rites.
• Remarriage: Under Hindu Marriage Law (specifically relevant for those with marriages registered in India), remarriage is only legal after a divorce is fully finalised.
• BBC +4

Legal & Practical Considerations in Scotland

• Financial Entitlement: In Scotland, the law generally aims for a "fair" (often 50/50) split of matrimonial property—assets accumulated during the marriage.
• Jurisdiction Issues: For women married in India but living in Scotland, divorce proceedings can be complex. A Scottish divorce may not automatically be recognised in India, potentially leading to legal complications regarding property or remarriage in India.
• Coercive Control: Scottish law (Domestic Abuse Act 2021) provides protection against coercive control, which can include withholding religious divorce as a form of abuse.

Are you looking for legal advice regarding a specific case, or are you seeking social support groups to connect with others in a similar situation?

Your poor son is being pulled back and forth by both of you, you are both being bad parents at this point: make a decision, if you need to move out do it in Scotland so he can stay at school but do something!

Well, none of this really surprises me. When he issued all his threats you were supposed to get back in your box and shut up. But you didn't so he's now trying to 'take it all back' without losing face.

I think the best thing would be to simply and silently continue with your plans, especially your investigations into schools for DS. I know that is and should be primary at this stage in his education. Try to curtail discussions with H, or at least respond with "I'll have to think about that" or words to that effect until your path becomes crystal clear.

As much as I understand your desire to leave the area as a way to get some peace, remember that living separately in your current area is also an option. It would get you and DS away from him. If he starts being verbally abusive you will have your own place with a door to shut right in his face. If you can get him to agree to leave, it can be the family home. If not, your own new place for you and DS. Do you think there's any way he'd agree to move out 'temporarily for space for you to think'? It could always be made permanent at some point.

Financially I think moving to England would be madness, property so much more expensive as well as Uni fees, accom. You dont need to flee the country, just another part of Scotland.

I think that DS is sixteen so he is in a position to make up his own mind.
You basically need to decide what you want to do about your marriage and do it. Otherwise it will become the case, if it is not already the case, that DS is stuck in the middle.
The legal situation is that your husband is DS’s father and has much right as you to express views on his education. But it’s ultimately going to be up to DS where he continues his education and the best thing for both parents to do is respect and facilitate that.
Of course your husband is rethinking what he said before when it looks like DS will move south. He knows that it is up to DS.
The only person you can make a decision for here is yourself.