I do love DH and he’s a good man, but … money

[yellowprimrosepink]

Money is a constant bone of contention in our marriage (and we are married so theoretically share everything but in reality we don’t.)

The background is that we met late (we were both 38 at the time) so I guess had separate lives and finances. I had a fairly good job; nothing to write home about but enough. DH however earns well - around the £95,000 mark. So when we had children, I went part time and then more part time to manage school drop offs and so on and now I’m two days a week, I earn next to nothing. However DH is away, a lot, he’s able to do this because I’m always there. But the comments I get about ‘leaning on him’ and so on are really starting to piss me off.

I know he gets stressed about finances but if it wasn’t for his job I could work and therefore earn more myself. I know that’s not totally fair of me as if it wasn’t for his job I wouldn’t be able to be part time. I just wish he valued what I do.

There seem to be a few threads like this lately.I think men still seem to think that paying for things means a RL .Explain that you cannot work any more ATM and you are enabling him to do his job .2 days is enough and he will have to lmp it!

You are meant to be a team. A partnership. You are facilitating him working away and he needs to financially support you in order to do that. At the moment you are the primary carer and without you he couldn't do what he's doing. I wouldn't tolerate the barbed comments. Realistically, if you weren't together he'd have to pay over £1k pcm in child maintenance on his salary, you wouldn't have to justify any of your spending and could potentially be entitled to UC as well. CM do not count as income and are not counted by UC.

The way it sounds is that you have to ask him for money like a child or he leaves you skint. That's not a partnership. It's financial abuse. If you are actually married you'll take 1/2 if nit more in the divorce. I think all round he's very short sighted.

Eww. Sly little digs are horrible. I only work part time and dh works full time and extra and his saying is he works hard so I don’t have to. I hope you’ve let him know that sly little comments erode your foundations and your relationship will become shaky. You’re a couple, a partnership and you’ve chosen this path together. Too late to change his mind now.

OP I do wonder whether part of you does feel a bit beholden to him. Attitudes have changed where women are not expected to be in any way dependent on a man while there’s the double whammy that men aren’t expected to pick up any of the domestic slack. I think that’s why many women are choosing not to have children. They see how hard and unfair it is.

Those women who have jobs that are more easily managed with children because they can afford nannies or have husbands that actually do help or they earn a lot or are flexible or are simply more energetic love to punch down on women that can’t manage that. You’re in a position where it doesn’t work for you and you’re right. What’s the point in crushing yourself and your family just for eighteen months slightly more cash in the bank.

My STBXH has suddenly been much more respectful since I gave him the divorce news. I’m not saying that’s your solution but I put up with the sniping and disrespect (because that’s what it is) and that’s the bit I’d change in hindsight. I wouldn’t feel beholden to him and I’d be very clear about how much contribution I was making to the relationship and the family.

Realistically he wouldn’t want to work and carry all the domestic load. I’m sure he likes being able to just waltz out of the house. He’s unreasonable to expect that of you to do it all. I think if you change your mindset it might help. In other words if you truly believe you deserve respect and support and for your husband to value what you do. It’s easy for him to look at other men he maybe works with whose wives work full time and feel envious. But I bet he wouldn’t look at those men whose wives don’t work at all or who do much more of the domestic load.

Be really clear with him that this is a dealbreaker. He should be respectful and if either of you have a problem it needs to be addressed with a proper resolution not bitching and sniping. And really mean it. Because this kind of contempt (because that’s what it is) kills marriages eventually.

You are sacrificing your career for someone who is taking that for granted. Some people have a very poor imagination and can't visualise what something will be like until they experience it so it may not sink in unless you are occasionally unavailable for the family. If he actually has to let his work down to go and pick up the children and then sort everything out for dinner bath and bed, it might sink in. At which point you can arrive home at 10pm and, tell him that you have had a nightmare day and ask if there is any dinner, whilst glancing around at any untidiness.

If you do up your work hours, then he needs to be totally involved in working out the child care arrangements and splitting the school pick ups/drop offs. Otherwise you will be doing more work, juggling childcare, putting yourself last and becoming more stressed. He'll probably then turn round and say he has met someone else who isn't so worn out by life.

Two things would help, given your reluctance to significantly change the status quo.

1. Joint (i.e. family) spends come out of a joint account. You still get your salary paid into your personal account, but you then transfer it over to the joint minus an agreed amount you hold back for personal spends.
2. Figure out how to talk to each other. Maybe couples therapy would help here? If not, you've had some good advice above about how to take the heat out of the conversation. He does need to understand how much you contribute in terms of all your unpaid labour. But equally, he clearly has a lot of resentment about... something... and it would be helpful to get to the bottom of that.

This tale is played out in so many homes.

I feel it's hard for (in most cases) the male to understand how much work is put in when children come along because their life simply isn't impacted. Apart from small humans living in their house, they continue as if nothing has happened. They do not understand what it is to be the default parent, or even consider the default parents obligation to work their life around the children and more often than not, their partners life - to just fit in.

Did your DH want children?

I have a similar situation in that my OH would probably consider my contribution as low value because he puts more into the pot financially. (Sadly not even half of what you DH earns). We both contribute to the household, but he has more personal money than I do because I work part-time. I believe he sees himself as more entitled to more personal money because he works more hours (in a paid role) than I do. While I don't have a problem with this (as such), it bothers me that when something goes wrong like an appliance, I am expected to put in my share. Last time something like this happened, I put it on my credit card. He gave me £100 towards it. I'm obviously paying it off.

I do feel even if I went back to work full-time there would be no real financial benefit once childcare is factored in. And time - I think it would be miserable to collect DC from clubs at 6pm, rush home to do homework, tea, bedtime 5 days a week. My workload (unpaid) would be the same due to still having to work around OH's hours, meaning I'd still be doing all school runs and club collections. Weekends would be taken up by meal prepping, cleaning, shopping etc - even with help from OH. Maybe it would put me in a better position to demand more financial fairness, which would ultimately mean OH would be worse off.

The battle of the sexes continues!

You have children OP. You're showing them that currently at least, all this from their dad is acceptable on some level to you. How would you feel if they were adults spouting similar to what their dad is saying to you?. Kids are like sponges and they will pick up on all the vibes here, both spoken and unspoken between you two.

Personally I think he will never go to see a counsellor and if he does refuse counselling I would go on my own. You need to be able to talk in both a calm and safe environment.

“Husband, right now we are in the trenches so to speak. We have two basic needs: money and childcare. Unfortunately these things are inversely related. So the more WE work, the more childcare WE will need. The more childcare WE pay for, the more money WE need. Now is about finding the balance. These are our two priorities as a team. It isn’t about one leaning on the other. It’s about our team finding the balance which works. Right now things are hard. Your work takes you away a lot. Childcare is exorbitant. I feel the balance is about right. You’re managing most of the money side of things while I manage most of the childcare. But if you feel the balance isn’t right then let me know if you have an idea for a better plan. I am willing to discuss options because we are a team. I don’t feel the passive aggressive comments about my leaning on you are very conducive to us operating as a team. I may need to “lean” on you financially, but that is because you are “leaning” on me for childcare. I could work more, but WE would need to find and pay for more childcare. WE would also need to think about the logistics of transporting children to and from childcare and fitting that around our work. But I am willing to talk this through so WE can arrive at the plan which works best for us/the DC. I do think now is when things are hardest. We have DC in two different settings (school and nursery), money is tight, we’re both tired. But it’s just for another 18 months and then the DC will both be in school and we can have a new plan. Logistically and financially we will be in a better place. WE just have to dig in hard and pull together. There is no “leaning”. There is only sharing our responsibilities in the way that works best for the family”.

He sounds like he's financially controlling you while also belittling your role and the value you bring to the family. If it wasn't for you, he wouldn't be able to follow his career as he would have to do more childcare too. You asked for actual advice upthread, and there aren't many magic tricks unfortunately:

• speak to him explaining how valuable you role to the family is, and how it enables his career. Remind him that you're taking a huge cut in your pension and security while he accumulates his wealth off your back holding the household and children
• tell him how his comments are belittling and insulting, and frankly unacceptable
• work more and pay for chilscare (like the majority of us, and yeah most of us would love to work less and spend more time with the kids, but welcome to latest stage capitalism in a cost of living crisis where we're all fucked!)
• review how you share joint spending and disposable income and make it more equitable

Obviously, word this in a non conflictual way, as much as possible, but matter of fact, because I think he's massively inflating his ego and contribution without recognising yours.
Good luck.

Mate, you don't like the situation but you don't want to change a thing.

Tell him you’ve signed up for a professional development class, starts in 3 weeks but is the evening of one of your working days. You didn’t check in advance because he doesn’t either. You can’t move it and won’t miss it.

When he points out how inflexible and inconvenient this is for him you can clarify this is exactly what your unpaid care facilitates for him.

@yellowprimrosepink op you do know he is leaving on you too . If not more .
What are weekends like and nights he is home ? Does he support you with the children . Does he take leave from work yearly ?

He has to know you are both parents and he gives what he can and you are going he Same.

Nailed it!

Ask him what he thinks family life should like. I am also a bit baffled by his worry about finances. He earns more than many families with 2 f/t workers, so, unless he thinks his job is precarious, perhaps he just needs to adjust his spending.

The problem is men like the OPs DH could easily divorce , pay child support and not see the kids or see them when he wants and still be financially better off than the OP would be

plenty of men see the salary as theirs as they were often earning it when they met their partner so the partner haven’t really contributed to them actually get such a high salary

It’s gets hard when they have kids and they very often still think of the salary as theirs alone and they don’t see that the partner is doing all childcare / house work on which allows them to work with no thought at all because they have always worked & because they don’t value that unpaid work and to be honest with most of them only have kids cos it’s what the wife wants not them as such

so therefore they see as it’s their problem to deal with, not his - he’s always been able to work earn well and not sacrifice anything.

He would still be a high earner with or without the OP

It’s not better for you as the lower earner, who is earning less to support your husband by taking up the labour of raising children.

your bills should all be written out, then calculated vased on your earnings ratio. There’s not parity without that and it allows him to continue this narrative that your contribution is less and completely undervalue your unpaid labour.

take the emotion out of it- if you weren’t there, how would he fund the childcare. How would he fund cleaning or would he honestly have time to do it? Any admin you do for the kids eg gp appointments- who would manage that? If he had to pay a nanny? That’s what you save. And you’re able to do that as you’ve cut your paid labour to provide unpaid labour for a man who is now giving you shit about it.

i think if you put plans in the diary for yourself and then ask him who is covering childcare for some of his- you’ll slowly reset this concept that you’re primary carer always, which should improve some of this attitude. He doesn’t understand what it’s like to make a decision AFTER checking that it works for everyone else.

OP sorry to say I’m about to divorce my DH for exactly these reasons. It got better for a while but always relapsed. I was also a high earner when I met DH - I earned more than him - but when I have up work to have DCs the comments started and it just got worse.

I'm actually wondering if, from the way OP is so adamant she wants separate finances, there's debt, gambling, over sending or some other financial problem her husband has? So she wants to protect her money.

My friend is constantly complaining that they are basically on the breadline but with her husband's job topped up by her p/t one, the fact they live in a cheaper area of the country than us and have much lower childcare costs than us, theoretically they should have lots more disposable than us. But he spends, a LOT. So that's why.

You need to have a conversation about how, at this stage of your lives, you have sacrificed income in order to support the family. That includes supporting your children and supporting him to continue his career. You have also sacrificed future income, as by having a reduced salary for a number of years (unless overpaying) you will be paying a lot less into your pension. And potentially also sacrificed career progression. You have made those decisions for the family unit. He needs to therefore step up and support the family unit more financially. It sounds like he does pay the mortgage and possibly other bills.

Ideally, at least for this period, you need to speak to him about income being for the family, not individuals. If you go back to being more on par again it doesn't have to be permanent, however considering the reduced pension and career progression, it may well have long running impact. Otherwise he is placing additional stress on you and also potentially impacting your ability to do things with the kids, in order to have more personal financial freedom.

It probably isn't financial abuse currently, but could potentially be financial control if he is limiting your ability to live comfortably, and to the same standard of living that he enjoys himself. There shouldn't be a disparity within a household.

There are ways to make it more equitable without unrestricted spending, if you are both used to having separate funds, for yourselves it may be more appropriate to work out what you are each spending on household bills, including childcare. Adding to it the average months expenses for your kids, and then splitting the rest 50/50 so you can spend as you choose. Ideally, if affordable, you would also add in equal savings and pension overpayments for yourself.

I hope that helps and makes sense! I appreciate it may come across a bit blunt, but you asked for advice!

This thread is depressing AF.

OP why did you get married if you want to keep finances and everything else separate? If you're married you're supposed to be sharing everything equitably and that is how the law sees it. If you divorced you would be entitled to an equitable share of your DH's assets and a big chunk of his £95k income will go to child support. You will probably also be entitled to a big chunk of his pension as yours has taken a hit by bringing up his children.

I see threads like this time and time again and it just baffles me that women get themselves into these situations with these awful husbands who don't actually want to be husbands and provide while their wives take a big financial hit by looking after the home and kids. And they are so blinkered and still insist these men are "good men".

I'm so thankful my DH is not a penny pinching grump. He earns £75k which will increase to £100k in a few years time and I earn £20k as I am part time. All the money just goes into our joint account and not once in our 17 year relationship has he ever made any nasty or snide comments about money. We also have a joint savings account which we can both access. Any financial issues we just discuss and work through them like adults. He also travels and works away a lot but the difference is he is happy to provide for our family because I actually married a good man who knows what it means to be a husband and father.

It sounds like what you really need advice on is HOW to communicate to your DH.

• We are a team
• Lets take the issue from in between us and put it in front of us - let’s approach it side by side, together
• I really want to listen to you and hear your concerns. Will you share with me?
• I want to share my concerns with you so we can approach them as a team.

You need to both listen to each other, understand each other, then come up with a joint action plan of how to move forward.

That action plan includes

• how to help each other feel emotionally supported
• how to help each other feel practically supported

You need to spell out to him your economic contribution, and your practical contribution. He works long hours. So do you. He clocks off at the weekend. You don’t. Could that be changed so you’re more 50:50?

You know that you are feeling undervalued. Is he? Do you need him to spell out something for you, so you can understand how to value him better?

I completely agree with this btw. But I think OP is set on how she wants to manage separate finances.

So you have sacrificed your career and your pension, to be present for his children and to facilitate his ability to have a great career and a great pension, and in return he belittles you for it? Fucking hell, what a prince.

Even though you don't mean it, I would call his bluff and send him an e-mail like this :

Dear John,

I have been thinking a lot lately about your recent comment that I "lean on you".

I have given up my career, my earning capability, a huge chunk of my pension and my ability to have a great career in the future, so that someone is home to care for our children. This also allows you the freedom to pursue a great career and to contribute to a big pension pot for yourself, because I am at home covering everything that you are not present for.

Instead of profusely thanking me for making such a huge sacrifice, you seem to resent me. Therefore, I am putting this suggestion to you : I am willing to now work full time. In order to facilitate that, we will need to split all childcare, all nursery drop offs and pick ups, and all school drop offs and pick ups when the kids start school. I have looked at a few jobs on the internet, and I will most likely be working from 830am till 530pm, so if you can't pick up on any of the days that are designated to you, you will need to find a nanny or childminder to cover for you. I'm sure you appreciate that my employer would not tolerate me leaving early, just because you were out of town.

We will also need to split any time off, such as when the children are sick. We will also have to split all school holidays, so I will cover 6 weeks and you will need to cover the other 6 weeks. I realise this will mean that we can never holiday together as a family, but that will just be a consequence of us both having careers.

We will also need to split all household tasks from now on, such as food shopping, laundry, hoovering, cooking, changing bed sheets, bathing the children etc etc. When can we sit down and draw up a 50/50 rota for this? How will you cover your half if you aren't here? You will need to think about employing a cleaner/home help if you are going to be out of town on business.

Jack still wakes up in the night sometimes. We will need to attend to him on a 50/50 basis, as I can't be tired if I'm up early for work.

Let's hash out our 50/50 rota, and I will start applying for jobs next week.

Cheers
yellowprimrosepink

My ex husband was like yours! I've always had a job but in his eyes they were never 'proper' jobs and he would say to me 'when you get a proper job....'
My jobs revolved around our children so that he could further his career! He never lifted a finger, I did everything which I didn't mind at all. I saw it as my roll.
If ever moaned at me about money and my non 'proper' job I would just tell him to 'shut up' and remind him how easy his life was when he only had himself to look after 🙄
Your husband should be thanking his lucky stars that you hold everything together and he can do what he does!!