I do love DH and he’s a good man, but … money

[yellowprimrosepink]

Money is a constant bone of contention in our marriage (and we are married so theoretically share everything but in reality we don’t.)

The background is that we met late (we were both 38 at the time) so I guess had separate lives and finances. I had a fairly good job; nothing to write home about but enough. DH however earns well - around the £95,000 mark. So when we had children, I went part time and then more part time to manage school drop offs and so on and now I’m two days a week, I earn next to nothing. However DH is away, a lot, he’s able to do this because I’m always there. But the comments I get about ‘leaning on him’ and so on are really starting to piss me off.

I know he gets stressed about finances but if it wasn’t for his job I could work and therefore earn more myself. I know that’s not totally fair of me as if it wasn’t for his job I wouldn’t be able to be part time. I just wish he valued what I do.

@Soonenough i do think one of the problems is that he’s frustrated with himself, he has said to me many times he does not want to be ‘this’ person (moaning, grumbling about bills and money) and I do believe that.

At one point it was awful, I couldn’t say anything without him jumping down my throat, even a casual comment like ‘wow New Zealand is a beautiful country’ (it was on tv) would set him off. I thought we’d addressed it and moved on but since my pay has gone down it’s been deteriorating again.

@MikeRafone nailed what I was planning to say.

if you were equalising the load, as he seems to want, then HE would be sorting that school run out not you. Every damn day. And taking leave to cover sick kids and holiday and. ensuring a plan that swings in seamlessly without your input for when he has to go abroad.

you are devaluing your own contributions. If he is implying that you need to earn more, then he needs to take all the slack up on childcare planning so you get to be able to behave like him. (Ie someone else stressing round like a blue arsed fly doing pick ups drop offs and sick days). Till that happens The inequality works in his favour and never yours.

OP, can I ask - have you sat down together and gone through income (each and as a family) and outgoings? Only asking as we’ve a HUGE income disparity post kids - and had a period when I struggled to understand why my DH was being tight, but actually he was terrified (about job security, and specifically trying for us to live on less, as alternative jobs in his sector pay less). Which I knew in a “he had said it way” but will admit that I had dismissed his worries/hadn’t actually done the math, held in mind the increased increases in mortgage rates etc: and definitely felt more comfortable than we were at the time.

The open chats - changed the space and the bickering. He also hadn’t really paid any attention to what I was spending on (food shop, childcare, kids stuff - from the presents for their birthdays and play dates, to clothes and uniform) - again he knew I do them, but hadn’t really held in mind the overall cost (esp with food increasing).

If he is centering £, can you flip the narrative? Plan out scenario A - return to work FT (four days in 5 right as nothing else would be possible) and map the increase costs of kids clubs, sickness cover, FT nursery, cleaner, increased cost of holidays or time off in peak. And include the list of shared responsibility’s that would return to him? And name that it’s not what you’d wanted to your kids (FT long day childcare, nothing wrong with it but it’s hard on the soul when it’s not what you want for you or them). B - leave work, not earning. No childcare costs. He can work without £ impact. But that you’d limit career progression and struggle (perhaps) to get the role/flexibility in time you want when littlest goes to school. C current scenario. Costs. Benefits. Etc. D - could you tutor? Or do anything other than another full day teaching as extra?
so he can actually hear where your coming from? Is it that the solution that he wants…idealistic.

sending massive hugs. We’re the opposite - together since we’re young - and it’s one of my least favorite memories of us. Was a tough time with not enough sleep, relentless little ones and no time for ourselves, and massive adjustment - with if I’m honest resentment on both of our parts for the others scenario (I love my work world and while there’s no way £ it made sense for me to work more and him less, his success was somewhat unexpected, and I think both of us were struggling to adjust to suddenly being in way more of a traditional dynamic than we’d expected/hoped for)

The cost to your mental health? That came out of nowhere all of a sudden....

Best suggestion so far!

@Callmemummynotmaaa he doesn’t want me to work more. One of the most frustrating things about this is that I can’t, really -
the only way would be if he worked less which from a financial perspective makes no sense. But in fairness he’s never said I should and in fact says the opposite.

I just feel like I can’t really win. Like the hello fresh thing … food and feeding everybody is a bit of a nightmare,

You need to figure out what it is you want. You can’t tell us what you are looking to accomplish other than both live your lives.

I think radical honesty about finances, a shared budget and fun money.

So he doesn’t want you to work mpre
but resents having to support you? Makes no sense…

I have a DH who had a similar mindset. I had to spell out for him that he can do his job because I support him. I listed the things I do that he isn't aware of - the appointments and pick ups and all the rest. The last minute dramas, getting dinner in etc - I'm the frontline support so he can do what he does.

It wasn't a dramatic or long conversation but I did have it a few times until it clicked. He has changed his language and attitude now. The model for these setups was torn apart in the nineties and men now seem to expect pulling your weight means only financially, but that just isn't true, and just isn't teamwork.

I think what he wants are for my outgoings to be so minimal as to be barely noticeable. And unfortunately they aren’t!

@beAsensible1 i guess I’m just trying to be realistic. In an ideal world I wouldn’t need to involve DH in any financial decisions at all. If I wanted something eg hello fresh I get it, that’s the end of it. As it is when I do that now even if I pay for it myself I know there’s a calculator in his head - it goes something like ‘she’s bought this from Amazon and that’s maybe £30, She has spent &30 on hello fresh, she’ll be needing at least £60 from me later in the month,’ that’s how it goes.

Thank you. I do need to spell it out to him more, it’s as if he doesn’t realise they need feeding, entertainment, clothing, sometimes.

My DH and situation sounds similar to yours.. I’ve made it very clear to him that he couldn’t do the job he does and enjoy the lifestyle he does without the support I put in. If he asks what I’m doing on a day off my reply is always ‘unpaid work!’

he seems to have got the message now!

good luck with your DH

But the comments I get about ‘leaning on him’ and so on are really starting to piss me off

This is very telling OP.

It doesn't sound to me like he's ever really seen you as a unit. There him. And there's you. You're both travelling in the same direction at the moment, but in separate vehicles.

A man who's really on the same team as his wife and sees what she does and values it wouldn't be saying what he's saying now.

He doesn't like you leaning on him??? Tough. You're the mother of his children, looking after his children, not some housemate.

I just wish he valued what I do

There's the problem.

You shouldn't even have to make a case for that. It should be self evident, but I'm afraid that he might just be sexist. A stingy on at that. They'll never appreciate what you do because they see it as low-status, easy work (and whatever he does, will be higher status).

I think what he wants are for my outgoings to be so minimal as to be barely noticeable. And unfortunately they aren’t

Yes. He doesn't want you to inconvenience him one bit, because he's not naturally generous and he's on his own team.

It’s only a temporary arrangement for a couple of years while they need childcare. I understand that it can be stressful being the main earner but he needs to keep his eyes on the prize really, it’s not very long in the scheme of things.

Feel angry on your behalf reading this.

Would he be open to going to therapy to discuss it? Money can be such an emotional trigger for people it might help to have a mediator.

If that’s not on the cards you need to calmly and clearly explain how it makes you feel. Try not to go tit for tat but really lay out for him the emotional labour you take on for the family as well as the mental load and how hurtful it is to have to hear these little digs all the time.

I am astounded how many posts there are on here of women whose partners just do not see or value the work they do outside of earning money. So many men seem to just not understand how utterly exhausting it is being the primary carer for small children. And how shit it feels not to be able to bring more money to the table and have to put up with digs like that!

Our kids are the same age OP. My OH doesn’t work at the moment. He does a mix of childcare and mange’s a building project. I work full time (earning about 150k). We’re skint because of various things we are doing but we made the decision together for him not to work, it’s our decision, not his. I’d never dream of blaming him for us having not more money any more than I’d blame myself. Apart from anything, our lives already feel difficult - I can’t imagine how we’d survive if he was working tbh 😂. I’m not away a lot, or ad hoc but ever couple of weeks I do an overnight in London. I would do more (every week would be ideal) but our youngest is still not a good sleeper and I don’t want to make his life any more difficult than it already is at the moment. I know it’s hard because I do it too. Does your DP ever have the kids overnight on his own?

So whilst that all this Sounds like my relationship is wonderful, I can also say I think we are both pretty miserable and we do take it out on each other at times - like you, we both miss our old life to some extent. Apparently there’s a book called ‘how not to hate your husband after having children (or something) apparently it’s good. I’ve not read it yet but I might. Any chance for a night without the kids for a nice evening and a chat that doesn’t end in an argument?

I think the solution has got to lie in communication. Kind, non accusatory communication. He does sound like he’s being a bit of a twat though to be honest, I can see why you’re put out.

100%
When you have children you are a team!

You're both travelling in the same direction at the moment, but in separate vehicles.

Very much so

@Ibetthatyoulookgoodon thank you for this. I do think there’s so much truth in your post, it is just so hard … it’s getting easier slowly but still, we’re both tired and wrung out, both working hard but skint, both stressed and spread too thin.

It's not about the money. Even if he was on 200k I bet he'd be the same.

If he's the type I sense he is, then he has a tendency to feel self-pity and hard-done-by easily, to look at what other people are getting and see if he's worse off.

Silly plonker. Men like this don't realise how corrosive al of this is and how it could one day cost him his marriage.

Work out how much childcare would cost and ask him to pay you half that amount for doing it

Talk to your husband about finances.
What are your outgoings?
Is he worried about money?
If you want to work more hours then find out the practical costs of that.
Explain that you do the majority of the school/nursery runs.
He needs to acknowledge that not all 'work' has a financial reward.
If he is a good husband you will work it out.

He’s coming at it from a perspective where he sees only what he provides (that’s measurable right? Money can be quantified). He’s got no appreciation for what you provide. A lot of caring work (usually performed, for free, by women) is under-valued by society and dismissed by men as not being “work”.
In reality you’re supposed to be a team. You wouldn’t be able to work part time if he didn’t earn as much, and he wouldn’t be able to work as much (as a father!) if you didn’t do everything else to prop up his share of household and parenting responsibilities.

You seem to understand you’re a team but does he? He’s not doing you a favour! You’re working together for the good of the FAMILY. He’s not some single guy giving away his paycheck, he’s a father paying into the family pot. His currency is cash, yours is childcare, household management and more. You need both to make a family work. If he can’t see this he’s being obtuse.

If he won’t change then your only option is to say fine, the family finances and stress levels take a hit and I go back to work full time, we both get strung out trying to cope , he’ll have to step up with 50% of all childcare and housework, and of course won’t be able to go on work trips. How would this be better for anyone? He needs to clue in to the fact that the kids are a joint responsibility (not yours alone) and he is only free from that at your cost.
He’s not propping you up, he’s hemming you in and then blaming you for it.

So OP what are you paying for out of your income? It sounds like you are expected to pay for everything for yourself and the kids, while your husband pays the bills and mortgage?

Maybe you need to sit down with your husband and actually set the finances out so that it's a bit more fair. Maybe you need a joint account that you both pay a proportion of your salary into and that pays for general expenses. Alternatively, you both pay a proportion of your salary into a fund for mortgage and bills and food and other expenses, and the remainder is what you have left to do what you like with. I don't know what would work for you both but it sounds like the current arrangement isn't working.

If you are having to go cap in hand to him for extra money and he resents and criticises you for that, this starts to look like financial control. Does he expect you to go without basic necessities? You need to have an open and detailed conversation about money and who pays for what and what's fair.

He sounds very tight if he is penny pinching over food for the family. Food is so expensive at the moment … that is just depressing.

Have you considered marriage counselling?

I think you should have one joint account where you both pay in your salaries and everything just comes out of there to avoid this miserable transferring of every transaction.

Making barbed comments all the time is not cool. If he can’t stop making them on his own he needs to go to therapy

I am a bit confused here. He pays all the bills (for us everything apart from nursery is almost £4k so he has left maybe £1k) and you pay £300 childcare leaving you with £700ish. Not sure why you need to be arguing about money.
My advice would be make a household budget and you both pay into a joint account which covers all joint purchases like bills, food, fun stuff, kids activities and clothes etc - go through bank statements and work out annual spend on all this stuff. Work out how you both fairly contribute to this account and each have spending money for yourselves. And go into the chat about this with costs of additional childcare if you went full time to evidence that you working more isn't going to help overall finances.
I agree it is frustrating to be taken for granted - I have the more flexible job and am more organised but that means he rarely has to think about school holidays etc because if I did leave it to him he would notice the day before and not have anything sorted but he doesn't appreciate all the admin, like that, that I do. I am also rubbish at starting a conversation about this but find chat gpt quite helpful for organising thoughts and conversation starter points