Partner wants me to sleep with other men…

[AnOddOne]

I’ve nc for this.

Has anyone else had experience of this? I’ve expressed no interest in sleeping around and I’m perfectly happy with my partner. We’ve been together for nearly twenty years (I’m mid-fifties, he’s early 60s) and have a regular, fun and interesting sex life. He has ED which we’ve worked through together (with the help of Viagra) so that isn’t an issue and at no point have I said it is one. I’m post-menopause and while I’m confident in my skin and still enjoy sex I really have no urge to get involved with anyone new.

Increasingly regularly, he’s suggested I can sleep with other men ‘if I want’. He says he gets off on the idea. A threesome would make more sense to me (although it isn’t something we’ve done) but I just don’t understand why he’d want me to go off and do that. However hard I try to think about it rationally I can’t come up with anything because it isn’t rational. Like a lot of women, I couldn’t shag someone without becoming close to them.

Does anyone have any insight into why he’s suggesting this? I’ve asked if it’s because he wants to do the same but he says he has no interest in that and he just wants me to ‘enjoy myself’. But I do, with him! Everything else about our relationship is lovely, more so I suspect because we don’t live together and only see each other a couple of days a week.

When he makes these suggestions it makes me feel as though he thinks our most intimate times are unimportant. When I’ve put this to him he says I’m being silly and it doesn’t mean that at all.

Any insights? I really don’t want to ‘LTB’ because everything else about our relationship is great.

Err except I don't judge anyone in an open relationship thanks but thank you for ascribing beliefs to me that I don't hold. 🙄
As I said each to their own. It's your life and you're free to live it how you like.
I don't need to put anyone down to feel good about myself. I'm very happy exactly how I am.

I was reacting to the words you wrote. It does make me laugh however that people who often live an open lifestyle can view a monogamous sex life as vanilla or boring when in fact what happens between two people in a monogamous relationship can be anything but vanilla or boring.

That’s absolutely a view I respect. But the way you phrased it before was quite different and that matters. It isn’t the view, but the derogation that was an issue. Thank you for continuing a respectful dialogue.

The suggestion that anyone who ‘needs’ to fuck other people is doing it wrong is not a put down? OUR sex is superior, because it’s just us, we don’t need anyone else? I’m not ascribing that value to you. It was there in your words. It could have been tongue in cheek of course, and perhaps you do respect people who ‘need to fuck other people’ but it doesn’t come across that way.

For complete clarity, I definitely do not reduce monogamy or monogamous sex to vanilla or boring. It’s some of the best I have ever had. Home is the best place I never lived. But I still like to go on holiday and some of those have been fantastic, too.

Thank you also, for your respectful discourse.

@Notgoingononlyfansyet
"Folk just don’t want to SEEN to be judgemental."

Actually, I'm happy to be seen as being judgemental, when I am being judgemental. There's actually nothing inherently wrong with being judgemental. Having good judgement is a positive thing.
I might judge someone for kicking their dog, for instance, or (to tie it into this thread) judge someone for thinking that a person who has no interest in engaging in a kink should go to therapy to explore the issues around it, as though that won't result in a sense of pressure to compromise or comply.
(In such a case, I personally think the person with the kink should go to therapy, so they can explore the issues around it, and whether not engaging in it is a deal breaker for them.)

But anyway, yes - not all judgement is bad!!

Well said.

Apols - haven't RTFT but I do find this request/suggestion odd. Maybe he's actually the one who wants to experiment with men himself and hopes for a threesome where he can do that without properly committing to a same-sex fling? Or perhaps this really is a thing about getting off on knowing that your partner is having sex with other people, and it's a sort of masochism...and I started wondering if this is how it starts, with the vile man who was married to Giselle Pellicot. That initially you get off on the age-old trope of being 'cuckolded', or maybe as a voyeur, and eventually that turns into a scenario where you're arranging for multiple men to come and assault your partner while they're unable to resist. Wasn't there also a UK case along these lines recently?

OP this is clearly not what you've signed up for. Very few people are ok with not being monogamous in a previously monogamous relationship. Do you feel able to end it?

Well no. Because kicking a dog is abusive and illegal. We have ACTUAL judges appointed to do that. You cannot ’find in favour’. So you actually can’t judge. It is literally not possible for you to judge an illegal action positively. Because it’s illegal and we’ve all agreed that legal is the standard and supporters of an illegal act have to change the law to judge the action acceptable. That’s justice. The actual process of judging.

And I DID suggest that he go to therapy to explore where the kinks came from and that she go for support in refusing to be involved and help with the issues it brought up FOR HER and whether she could get past those. NOT TO PRESSURE HER TO COMPLY. Just accept it’s there).

If she went to therapy to help get past an affair, you wouldn’t say I was pro affair that the affair was okay, or that only he needed therapy for it. It would be valid for her to have support too as the wronged party.

For example, she felt hurt that he was all of her sex life and (because he’d been watching porn involving other men) she wasn’t all of his. That’s going to be have been the case whatever happens now. She has still got to decide whether that’s something she can tolerate knowing once happened in the same way she would if it wasn’t because of a kink. Even if he ‘fixes’ his kink in therapy. (Which probably has a non-sexual origin that has other effects on the relationship she deserves to know about anyway) And possibly for how to accept it as part of him if she wants to stay (BUT NOT TO BE PART OF IT. NOT TO PRACTICE IT. NOT EVEN FOR HIM TO PRACTICE IT. Just to accept it’s there within him and hold any boundaries around it. Even it’s that ‘never mention it again’. Because it can’t actually be magicked away. She’s always going to know). It’s just approaching talking about with curiosity, rather than with disgust.

I don’t think I put it so poorly that I wasn’t clear. But even if I did, you were so busy judging me and my sexual deviancy, and interpreting “kink positive” as “will pressure you into kinky stuff”* you didn’t seek clarification. You judged me as a poor source of information. And that’s my entire point.

(*I’m aware some people have said that they were pressured to participate in a kink, and I want to say AGAIN that those therapists should be reported and not allowed to practice. That is abuse, not therapy. Consent should be fully supported ALWAYS and there is no grey area. If that’s people’s concern, they should be asking how to find non-abusive therapists to navigate kinks in partnerships. Not saying therapy is a bad idea or assuming kink positive-therapists push kink. A good therapist will tell you it’s valid to leave a partner for any reason, even a kink. And support you to do so. They just won’t shame the person with the kink either. It’s not bad to have a kink, but it does make you incompatible with some people. And MAYBE they’ll be able help put the kink in its place and help you stay together if you want. And they can’t do that while kink-suppressing or even kink-pushing. Maybe they’ll help you split and not blame each other by yourselves They should never, ever pressure you to be part of it. I cannot say this often enough and people are still assuming that’s what I mean. Again, why? When I’ve said it so may times? Judgement).

How can we put them back? Cattle prods?

I hate seeing them in this Topic of all Topics.

@Notgoingononlyfansyet "It is literally not possible for you to judge an illegal action positively."

Untrue. In Iran, marrying an 8 year old girl is legal, and I can judge that as being wrong. Smoking marijuana isn't legal in many countries, but I can be non-judgemental about that and think it should be legal. In addition, kicking a dog may be illegal, but I have no doubt some people (likely dog kickers themselves) wouldn't judge someone for doing so.
So no. Personal judgement is very much entirely separate to legality.

"And I DID suggest that he go to therapy to explore where the kinks came from and that she go for support in refusing to be involved and help with the issues it brought up FOR HER"

'Refusing' to be involved? What a word choice. Regardless, it doesn't seem like she needs help, or that it's brought up any issues for her that it wouldn't bring up for anyone who's not into it and is suddenly confronted by it. It's his issue, she's clear she's not into it, so now it's his job to stop badgering her about it, and seek therapy to figure out whether it's a deal breaker for him or not.

You said, in regards to her feelings, "It’s always worth finding out why something bothers you, I think" as though you think there's something wrong with her for being bothered, when 90% of the world would be bloody bothered! It's normal to not want to be pimped out for free as part of your partner's kink! There's literally nothing to find out.

"If she went to therapy to help get past an affair, you wouldn’t say I was pro affair that the affair was okay, or that only he needed therapy for it."

If you said they should go to an affair-positive therapist to explore it, I might raise an eyebrow!

I think the issue is that it seems you think she needs therapy to work through why she doesn't want to do something that 90% of people would never want to do. Whereas in reality, she's drawn her boundaries and is perfectly happy with them - her concern seems to be how important this kink is to him, and whether he might already be acting on other kinks without her knowledge. So if anything, he needs to be told to figure that out in therapy, and then come home and be honest with her.

It's normal to not want to be pimped out for free as part of your partner's kink!

Indeed. Funnily enough I was thinking only this morning what a shit pimp he’d make. We don’t even get to earn any money out of it ffs. There would be literally nothing in it for me (apart from a potential new partner if it went better than expected).

A potential new partner, OP? Are you sure? that potential new partner would come into the picture agreeing to this whole circus, could you take someone seriously who takes part in this - if the very reason you'd leave your current partner is said circus.... Just food for though.

@exhaustDAD I wasn’t clear that this was a joke. If I do go off and shag someone else it’ll be with a view to finding a new partner. Because I’ll be single and my current partner (let’s call him Randy Roger*) will be free to find a new girlfriend to pimp out if he so desires.

*Not his real name.

Fair enough @AnOddOne , fair enough. I totally missed the joke element, that is on me. After all these days spent on this thread, I have no doubt that you will deal with this appropriately, and Randy can...well.. sort himself out.

I’ve been tied up with work for the last few days and there’s a lot to take in from all the wonderful advice and varied viewpoints on this thread, so I plan to read it thoroughly later.

In the meantime though I’d like to make clear I’m not judging my partner on his ‘kink’ but more on his refusal to believe I don’t want to try it. I’m no stranger to coming up with ‘ideas’ myself but if he’s not keen that’s the end of it. It’s his returning to it again and again that’s making me suspicious that it might already be something he’s involved in somehow. Dogging maybe? That was mentioned more than once last summer. I’m treading carefully for now so I can find out as much as possible before I make a decision about what happens next.

Sounds a bit like he has a cuckold fetish ( men who get off on having to see their partner with another man?!)

At the end of the day, of that is not something you are comfortable with, please tell him so. And I'm sorry if that means long term you relate you aren't compatible but sometimes when people have... particular sexual interests....if you can't meet those...chances are they won't be satisfied. So there is little point in staying around. You're just not the one for them.

Never ever feel like you HAVE to indulge someone in something YOU personally are not comfortable with or consent to.

Personally I can't think of anything worse than having sex with another man, let alone my bf getting off on it 😬 same goes for him, I hate the thought of him with another woman!

That's not to say polyamory cannot work for some people (I have friends more than happy in that lifestyle) but crucially it has to be consensual and a mural agreement.

I’ve been tied up

Probably a good phrase to avoid on a thread infested with male pervs, OP

I’ve been tied up
Probably a good phrase to avoid on a thread infested with male pervs, OP

Oh dear. Yes that was careless of me @MangaKanga

@KitTea3 Never ever feel like you HAVE to indulge someone in something YOU personally are not comfortable with or consent to.

Sound advice, thank you, but I’ve already made clear I won’t be doing this. I’m too long in the tooth to pander to other people’s nonsense.

I think I've read the whole thread, but maybe I missed something. You had said that you were going to ask to look at your DPs messages when you last saw him. Did you ask him? Did he show you?

Yes, there's nothing wrong with a bit of spice and variety that both partners love! But the fact that he keeps pestering you is worrisome as well as annoying.

It could just be that with increased porn consumption, and perhaps age, he's become really stubbornly fixated on this one particular fantasy he wants to try? That might be the best case scenario. But that would still require him to stop badgering you about it, and let it go.

Good luck, OP, it sounds like you're handling it very sensibly.

I think I've read the whole thread, but maybe I missed something. You had said that you were going to ask to look at your DPs messages when you last saw him. Did you ask him? Did he show you?

@Woodfiresareamazing I’ve changed my mind on this for now. I’m playing it cool while I see if I can get to the bottom of what’s going on. I’d still rather use the ‘old fashioned’ method of speaking face-to-face, although I do realise this might not ultimately yield results if he’s intent on dishonesty. Asking to read his private messages is an absolute last resort and means our relationship is over whatever I find out (if anything, bearing in mind he could refuse or he could be hiding or deleting messages ‘just in case’).

We had a chat about his refusal to take no for an answer at the weekend and he was profusely apologetic, said he ‘gets carried away in the moment’ (in his head) and seems genuinely mortified. I told him how it makes me feel which upset him a lot as rather bizarrely he ‘hadn’t realised’, so as far as I’m concerned he can stay upset while he decides if this latest ‘kink’ is more important than his carefully nurtured long-term relationship. It’s all a bit of a mess really.

Having posted on this thread I thought I'd have a quick look at your updates. Thankfully I work from home & sometimes pop in & out during coffee breaks or I am generally less busy.

I see there has been no particular resolution to the issue other than your partner being mortified. Given the success of your relationship over many years you may be able to forgive him for his latest suggestion providing he promises to get this pitiful idea out of his head once and for all or at least keep it in his head without expecting you to make it a reality. I wish you all the best with your decision going forward.

It's made me think a lot about these dynamics. My own feeling about all this cuckolding and Hotwifing is that it's still centring men. It's like lending their women out like a Black and Decker drill and expecting the neighbour to be grateful, getting a thrill out of having a hot wife and 'lending' her out to other men. Even the wife 'getting pleasure' has to be accounted for and happen- what if she wants to have an experience without having to account for it, or even not enjoy herself that much? I hate when people 'expect' you to have fun and pleasure for their fun and pleasure. So often these accounts seem to be all about pleasing the men by letting them be submissive, letting them lend you out, letting you go out to have hot sex elsewhere. It's all so subtly dominating.

I think that in the way you're thinking of it, then yes, it's centring men, but it would depend entirely on the individual couple and what dynamic turns them both on and how they play it.

Also, plenty of women do enjoy being dominated in that kind of way, just like plenty of men do - and there's nothing wrong with that. It might not be your thing, but it doesn't mean other women might not get a lot of enjoyment out of it.

I think that whenever there are threads on Mumsnet about any kind of 'kink' or whatever, there's a tendency for people to say what it 'means' or what it says about the people involved, and I can see why - but really, it never just means one thing, and it's going to be different for everyone. Sometimes it might mean one thing with one partner, and a completely different thing with another. It's just not as simple as 'it's all about this' or 'it's all about that'. People and sexualities are so, so much more complicated and varied than that.

I'm interested to find out if monogamous couples who are madly in love & have a great sex life that never involves 'kinks' are considered as boring or less satisfied by those who make kinky fantasies a reality.

As I've said before each to their own & whatever works..In this instance my concern for the OP would be when is it enough & what could it lead to in order for her partner to achieve the same or greater sexual satisfaction. This is why I would never suggest to the OP to give in to her partners suggestion of having sex with other men.

Kinky wife-lending couples are not really in love though, either he is porn-sick or she has been abused in the past. 10 times out of 10.

They're in lust (or he is) and sticking together for (his) convenience. It's giving early stages of Dominique Pericot.