Found condoms and wet wipes in DH's work/ travel bag (yes another one of these!)

[Ohtheregoesgravity]

I've read many similar threads on here, maybe adding another will help develop a data pool for trend analysis or FAQs for other Mumsnetters (ha!) but really, I just need to recount my experience and maybe get some advice specific to my circumstances - even though it's on a common topic.

Several condoms dated 2029, together with individually wrapped wet wipes multi pack - many of which are open - found in DH travel/ work backpack. No open or used condoms, just the wipes. Been in couples' therapy for 2 years, been intimate twice or thrice in that time so I probably deserve it if he's cheating. I just thought he was still in the 'we are working on it' headspace. I was looking for pens or pencils for DS1 (6) homework last night (just moved house - no idea where the pens are yet) not looking for trouble. So I behaved calmly (I'm generally very expressive and emotional)and took out a sample of both on the floor by his bed, where I thought it would be obvious to him I had found them. I know he found them as I was flossing with my back turned as I hear me swearing and him jumping up to move them (DS1 and DS2 (3) were in their beds). The paraphernalia wasn't there when I turned and there has been no mention of it (not how I expected it to play out but determined not to be super emotional, which is what he would expect, and use to deflect from the problem at hand)

A few other things have my Spidey senses going. DH has been hugely and noticeably protective of his phone recently. He's always on it, won't show me me anything on his screen if he is looking at something and commenting on it, would rather send it to me (although he always would turn the screen to show me in the past). It never leaves his sight, it was on a charger close to me one night, next to the night stand with my water on it, I reached to get my water and he was barely awake and managed to sense, wake up and grab the phone as I reached my glass. He was never a fan of handing over his phone to DS to watch something as a distraction if we'd gotten desperate for him to sit still ( I am always happy to, unless I'm out of charge). Now, it is the only scenario where he would sooner make a scene (usually hates this) than hand it over.

He works in the office more, and goes for more conferences (locally but long days or the odd overnight) social meals and drinks after work. I thought it was due to his new job, and my job is the same. The odder thing is how many short notice travel ones he now has, they weren't mentioned to me as an initial criterion for the role.

He's been very amenable to sleeping in the guest bedroom in the last few months too. DCs have been waking up a lot at night and coming into our bed. In fact he's most recently been insisting that they start the night in bed with me while he sleeps in the guest room, citing 'we would all get better sleep'. Which we actually have.

I should ask him outright, about the condoms. Maybe tonight after the kids are down (we may not get a chance in the morning, getting kids ready, and DH is working from the office all day). But he may have gotten rid of the evidence, and he has been known to lie and gaslight in the past to get out of things.

What would you think and do? If he has been cheating, the marriage becomes irreparable, in my view - couples' therapy be damned.

You don't deserve it.

You haven't had sex with him much precisely because somewhere you knew he could, would do this.

You saw those traits, pulled back to protect yourself - and now he's proved you right.

He's a lying prick who's allowed you to think he wants to resolve your 'mutual' issues, when in fact the issues stem from his lying prickness.

They do if they're arranging the next liaison.

Op i think you really need to get your ducks in a row. Whatever's going on he's obviously checked out of the marriage.

I'm so sorry you are going through this.

I can't believe he has taken the line of, I don't know where these condoms are from. And individually wrapped wet wipes scream of the kind of thing used to clean sex toys (sorry).

You need to prepare for the fact he may never give an honest explanation. My ex husband had an affair and never admitted it. Even though his friends told me, he went on to marry her and she would post gushy, 'Can't believe it's been 5 years with this one' on Facebook, when I was the one married to him 5 years ago. He knew that being unfaithful was wrong, he knew it made him the 'bad' guy - he couldn't sit with those emotions, we are now in year 15 and counting of him just refusing to acknowledge it.

So my advice would be, don't wait for a smoking gun or an admission. It may never come. Sit with your feelings and ask if this is what you want from your life. A relationship where you don't trust him, where he lies to you about condoms, where you're at the point where you're asking to look at his phone and he's refusing, where you're not having sex... Is this the marriage you wanted when you met him, when you were teenagers?

Of course, it can get better. With the counselling you are already having, you can get through this. Ideally he'd admit to his infidelity, but even if he never did - you could move past it, if you both worked on your relationship. But it would take both of you working on the relationship - and if you never got that admission, would you be able to get past the fact your husband expected you to believe that brand new condoms just appeared in his workbag?

What @Bloozie says is so wise. Some men/people simply cannot admit fault or culpability.

Don't hold up your future waiting for your husband to be someone he's not capable of being

You don't have incomplete data OP. An admission is in no way necessary for you to determine very obviously that he has behaved like a cheating asshole.

I think this is the time to get your shit in order, say nothing else, then when you're ready to take action, drop it on him. Don't give him the opportunity to gaslight or bullshit you again.

He’s clearly cheating op. You know this. Two years of therapy, sex 3 times in that time, and this is a surprise? I’m really sorry, but maybe stop spending money on therapy, get your financial ducks lined up, and spend money on a divorce lawyer. This man is not committed to therapy, doesn’t respect you and has checked out. Time for you to have a happier life without this cheating rat.

I don't know why couples play games like leaving the things for him to see so he knows you've found them. If I'd found something like that, I'd take hold of them, go to DP and say "Hey, I've just found these in your work bag, how come they're there?" and his reaction would tell me everything I need to know.

Why are you even together if you can't even ask a question and have a conversation?

Although - having sex twice in two years does NOT make it okay for him to cheat on you, if that's happening.

If either of you aren't happy with the frequency of sex then, again, you need to TALK about it, and find a way to deal with it. It may even be a deal breaker, and you end up parting ways. But anything's better than playing games, and possibly sleeping with other people behind your wife's back.

Please remember you're both adults, this isn't a weird high school romance. You can ask questions, and he can provide answers.

LOL. Of course they do. Sex workers operate in a vast range of ways. A woman who works in a 'massage parlour' or who works from the street is unlikely to message clients, but lots of other sex workers do. They message to arrange appointments, for a start, or because they operate on a sort of 'girlfriend experience' type basis and sexting is part of their package.

OP, it’s clear that he’s been doing something he doesn’t want to admit to (and I’m not sure if the specifics of that really matter).

Take a bit of time to decide how you want to move forward, there’s no need to force a conversation immediately if you don’t think it will serve you long term. Definitely get your ducks in a row though.

Is there any part of you that would want to have sex with him again/resume intimacy? If the answer to this is no, as it was with my ex, there’s little point continuing with the therapy.

if it walks like a duck etc. All the flags are there if you follow MN. Sorry you have to be at the parade

There would be no doubt in my mind with the information you've given, that he is cheating, be it an affair or with sex workers. So many things you've said, such as the sudden work overnights are classic affair red flags.

If you are not happy to put up with him getting sex elsewhere, then the only option here is to divorce. There is more than enough evidence in your comments to prove he is actively cheating.

Don't waste anymore of your precious life on this dead marriage.

I'd have him served divorce papers by the end of the week.

Why all the biscuits flying round and condescending ok loves.

no one is sayinf men having regular sex don’t cheat. The statement I made is he was unlikely to be celibate. And it is not clear if the op had taken a conversation with him where they both discussed celibacy. Sex is important to both men and women often.

so it’s no surprise I think in a dead marriage with no intimacy that the male isn’t celibate and has sought sex elsewhere. This doesn’t translate to she deserves it. Or sexually active relationships don’t have cheating in them, or he was justified.

quife simply in a dead marriage with no intimacy and seperate bedrooms it is a fairly safe assumption the male won’t be celibate but will look elsewhere.

edit and I’m in my fifties

op, i think you just need to calmly ask him for reasonable explanations for:

1. new condoms in the bag he uses for more frequent travel
2. his unwillingness to be open with his phone (it's likely pointless to ask to see it again - i'm sure if he so hurriedly tried to hide the condoms/wipes you left out, he'll have scrubbed his phone pretty carefully)

be clear that "i don't know" isn't a reasonable explanation.
remind him you're not an idiot, and you're not going to swallow any obvious bullshit.

also be clear that if he can't do this, your assumption will be that he's cheating/cheated, and that you'll be proceeding on that basis and working out what is needed to end your marriage (if that's what you decide).

if you can manage this in person, brilliant, but you could do on text (this is often better, because it allows time to process, and to avoid either person allowing emotion to take over - especially if there are children in the house).

and remember - you don't need to see a smoking gun. the likelihood is you'll never get to see one.

albeit no-one buys condoms without being confident they're going to be used.

I know it's really scary thinking of a different future but you deserve to be happy & respected.
It sounds like the writings on the wall that he will of slept with someone else if you haven't been intimate much at all.
These situations are never easy especially if you have been together many years.
You get one life don't waste anymore time in this get your ducks in a row yes it's daunting but you will thrive in the future if you just give yourself that little push to move on .
It's all about acceptance don't underestimate yourself or have regrets x

You deserve better.

I think you're right.

Thank you for this. The hard truths shared by others have been helpful to see, and crystallized a lot of things I've been denying, or avoiding for a long time. Needed a bit of a pep talk like this too, though.

Do you have anyone to talk to in RL op?

You’ll get some great advice on here (and some not so great) but you probably really need a trusted friend or relative right now to talk it through and get some support x

Almost certainly cheating. 99 percent likely. Time to have a difficult chat and decide whether to stay or go. Hopefully he is not in love with the other party.

So many things you have said ring absolutely true! 'I don't know' is not a reasonable explanation, I am not an idiot - I will assume he is cheating. And I don't need to see a smoking gun, condoms are bought with the intention of being used. Thank you so much - it seems simple but I've not been in a state to articulate these things to myself today.

I'm so sorry, OP. He is already having sex with someone else, or he is planning and preparing to do so. It doesn't matter if it's an affair or if he is using sex workers. He will probably never give you the full truth and you will have to find a way to move past this.

Focus on yourself and your children. Bluntly, I query whether your couples' therapist is any good if you've made no progress in two years but if you have a good rapport with him / her and you feel it would be helpful to speak to someone who knows the context then contact them and ask for an individual session. This was the single most helpful thing that I did for myself in the breakdown of my marriage.

I'm so sorry. I know how painful it is. I can only tell you that it will hurt like hell while you get through it, but you WILL get through it and there is a stronger, happier life for you on the other side.

Do you know about your husband's bank accounts & pension,etc? It would be worth a couple of days letting him think you're not doing anything while you find out as much as you can. Wishing you well op.

There are plenty of reasons that people stop fancying each other in a long term relationship (see my earlier post) and it can be got back if people behave with integrity. Or it never goes, just becomes something different and familiar - again, if people behave with integrity.

That's not what's happened here. Your DH does not have integrity.

To reduce this to 'it's just one of those things' lets him completely off the hook - you will be effectively gaslighting yourself, on top of all the gaslighting is coming towards you from him. It is neither an accurate reflection of what has happened or helpful to you @Ohtheregoesgravity

Yes, the upshot is the same - this is the end of the relationship, you will split, you will eventually have to just let the rage and anger and betrayal go for the sake of being a good co-parent. But right now those completely rational emotions to be feeling and expressing - and you can't move on without doing so.

Don't let other posters convince you that you're both equally to blame - you're not - and actually, apportioning blame is an important part of facing the reality of it all and processing it, without which you can't actually move on.

@Daisywhatsyouranswer , because of the blaming the woman for a man's infidelity. 'If he doesn't get his oats, he'll go elsewhere' mentality.
Why they aren't having regular sex isn't clear, and men may be having regular sex at home and with the OW.

Kick him out, he's shagging someone else 100%. It would be pretty gross to save used condoms/wrappers but I've no doubt he'll say he's never used any. He has. Sometimes putting 2 + 2 together can make 5, on this occasion it's stone cold certainty that he's playing away, all the evidence right down to encouraging the kids to sleep with you supports it, I'd put my house on it. Take legal advice immediately, kick him out