“D”H, cinema, female colleague- update messages

[Anon1234567891]

A couple of months ago I posted about DH going on the odd cinema trip with a female colleague/friend and how on the most recent trip I felt weird/jealous about it. I didn’t think there was anything physical but didn’t know if it was a bit more than friends and felt that he didn’t prioritise going out with me so was annoyed he was going out with her.
We talked and initially he was sympathetic and said he didn’t want to upset me but I asked if he would show me his phone messages to her and he was defensive and cross and wouldn’t even though he said there wasn’t anything “inappropriate”. There were a couple of other things I found he had hidden from me not directly related to this which I was annoyed about but we tried to move on.

But it still bothered me that he wouldn’t show me his messages so the other day I decided to look at his work phone as I couldn’t see his personal one and found these messages on teams.

Relating to the cinema he sent a picture of one of those double lie down beds you get at some cinema’s and said “we could have done sofa bed but a bit OTT for the first date” - it was the “first date” bit that got me.

Then there was one saying “because seats recline going higher than normal please make sure you have underwear on - this time!” She replied “spoil sport”. WTF was that about.

There were also messages about minor work issues where he replied “you are amazing” and “you are always welcome” and one where he put😍after the message.

So is this work banter or something else, there was nothing like this to anyone else. He has banged on for weeks about how I should trust him but if this is on his work phone what’s on his personal.

And to the people that kept telling me men and women can be friends would this make a difference to that opinion, I couldn’t see him sending this to a male friend.

Really sorry to read that you're also so scared of him.....please be careful OP. Don't issue ultimatums to someone who could physically harm you.

I'm annoyed you got him presents that were even 3 out of 10. He deserved a steaming pile of shite with sugar on.

You really need to stand in your own power and leave this narcissistic duffer.

Are you safe OP? Are you worried that he might be violent??

He’s never been violent in any way but the look of hatred and tone scared me. I have a father that was/is very verbally aggressive to my mum, I felt it could be one step away from being violent with him, so perhaps I just find it triggering.

OP I think it’s decision time.

It’s hard but you’ve know told us you’re scared of him on top of all the emotional abuse and cheating and hiding things and being evasive. You need to figure out how to make leaving as safe as possible for you, get your ducks in a row and just do it.

OP his scaring you and the utter contempt with which he is treating you and your feelings and how you (quite rightly) judge his behaviour, are a total game-changer for me.
Are you afraid to give an ultimatum? For fear if his bullying and menacing behaviour? If so then you need to get out OP as soon as you can and you need to tell someone you trust what is going on.
Living in fear of his anger and/ or his reactions to any objections is domestic abuse. Domestic abuse isn’t necessarily physical violence, it can take many forms: bullying, gaslighting, controlling behaviour…. He’s staring to fit the bill for too many of these issues for my liking.
Your reticence to act becomes clearer to me now, I’m not sure that it’s because you are not sure which way to go, or afraid of the future being on your own. I think it might be because you are afraid of him.

You can't do this for another 30 years. Rip off the plaster.

No I want to leave, after this more than ever but I’m afraid of his reaction and how hard he will make it. You would think if he dislikes me that much he would want me to go, probably just doesn’t want me to have half the house and see the kids less.

I don't actually think he dislikes you op; I do think he needs to respect you more though. His actions are shot through with disrespect and taking you for granted.

It may be he loves you (in his less-than-adequate way) but wants to have his cake and eat it. It may be he doesn't but is aware of the complications of divorce and childcare/ co-parenting arrangements etc ( an issue for you too).

It is very hard for us to look into his mind - and even possible he doesn't really know where these things fall himself. The Life Unexamined and all that.

But I think what he does need to accept is that he isn't respecting you, and he needs to take a decision about whether he is prepared to address that or not.

If you would like help divorcing, get help from a solicitor who can also point you in the direction of support at a more practical level, especially if you worry about violence. That isn't something to play round with.

If you feel the marriage is salvageable - especially if you are not sure there has been physical infidelity - maybe the low conflict option would be a proper letter to him. You could try a draft and people here could help tweak it - if that's something you would like to try.

I do feel for you, as you are frightened, that much is clear. The current status quo is not in your interests.

ETA if you really feel you want out of the marriage, get legal help asap. There need not be any more direct confrontation from you.

Exactly this.

He probably WILL turn a bit nasty because his comfortable status-quo is being challenged. Unfortunately because he has had his head turned, he will be feeling a level of contempt for you and will resent the idea of you spoiling his fun. Having said that, in MOST cases, it's a short-term thing and the fact that he has not been violent in the past is in your favour.

My best advise is this. Tell people. Tell ALL the people. There are so many reasons for doing this:

The more people you talk to, the more real it becomes
You get to give your narrative first
It becomes harder for you to stay once you have shared for fear of looking like a 'fool'
He becomes accountable
Any nastiness from him and you can tell those people. It's when it's done secretly and behind closed doors that nastiness becomes insidious and turns to abuse
He is less likely to get nasty as his reputation is already on the line and he won't want to damage his 'nice guy' image any further.

However, also something to think about:

If he understands that you are going to talk about it to other people, you can sort of give him the chance to share the narrative with you and leave quietly and graciously. You could agree to give offer a less finger-pointy and more neutral narrative about why the marriage has broken down. Some men would jump at this just to save their reputation. I don't know your DH but worth considering.

But the longer you quietly endure, the less he will respect you and the more spiteful, resentful and nasty he is likely to become.

But the longer you quietly endure, the less he will respect you and the more spiteful, resentful and nasty he is likely to become.

... and the more chance he has to bully and intimidate you.

Do you mean you think he will make it as difficult as possible for you? I know someone who was married to a lawyer who was afraid to leave for that reason, not afraid of him, but afraid in that she thought he was cleverer than she was and that he’d be able to run rings round her legally in a divorce situation. Once she had her own solicitor her fears became irrelevant, her solicitor was brilliant and all things happened fairly, irrespective of any demands made or potential obstacles introduced.
In many languages the word for lawyer means literally ‘advocate’. Your solicitor will be totally on your side and your advocate and expert in all things legal. If you feel you want to leave, then not acting on that leaves you trapped, miserable and afraid. Find your team: a good solicitor, trusted family and friends. Tell nobody until you have to. He’s not on your side any more and flaunting it in your face.
If he’s faced with divorce and doesn’t like it he can either face facts about himself and get on board with the changes he needs to make, or he’s getting divorced. Don’t listen to any legal/ financial threats he might make, his go-to making you back off tactic is anger. He resorts to bullying because he knows it makes you retreat.
My husband isn’t and wasn’t a bully, but I still spelled it out to him that if he didn’t sort his own shit out I was done. Admittedly in my case it didn’t need saying anyway, as once I confronted him he was mortified and ashamed and wanted to stay and wanted me, but I still kicked his arse hard with it to remind him how serious what he did was and that ‘sorry’ was never, ever going to be enough for his colossal betrayal. Any lack of change or blaming me would end the reconciliation abruptly with no further discussion.
Once your objections have teeth he’ll have to listen for once. If he still stays angry and entrenched then he’ll have to face the consequences.
This is all on him, OP. Never lose sight of the fact that you have justified objections to his relationship with a female colleague, he has been given numerous opportunities to resolve this and refused. You are not crazy or imagining things or over-reacting, what he is doing is wrong.
I would seek advice without telling him initially so that you know where you stand. A good solicitor will allay your fears and show you how to proceed and what he can and can’t do. Grey rock him now. No further reacting or questioning, no acquiescing to offers of trips away, a quiet ‘thank you’ and no more to any gifts or sweeteners. Just act as if you were a stone he was talking to.
I’m so sorry, he’s really being a total arsehole and a very nasty one at that.

Your husband is having an affair.
And you’re effectively allowing him to.
and your idle threats mean nothing to him

@Piknik 's post is really good advice.

I wish you lots of luck, strength and a brighter future - it will be tough, but so is living in fear and humiliation.

What a nasty thing to say

OP if you haven't already done so could you tell a close family member or friend what is happening including how your husband is making you feel scared, could they be with you when you tell your husband that you want to separate, perhaps they could be in another room? I'm not sure if that is helpful to you but if it helps you face him and put across to him how you feel etc. ? Hoping it all goes ok for you, you really do deserve to be respected and treated fairly.

This is why you need to be smart now, OP. Stop asking him for his phone or about the messages or whatever. Act as though everything is fine and you're over it.

Get yourself to a solicitor and work out where you stand financially, with housing, etc. Get all the necessary paperwork and evidence together (bank accounts, pension, kids' and your birth cert etc) and if you need to, start saving as much money as you can without him knowing. Make a plan to leave or get him out and have support in place. You can do this, but you need to be calm and thoughtful.

Oh OP. That is so sad.

He is using fear to control you. I did think that he sounded threatening in that last conversation. Presumably he knows your family background and your father's behaviour too, which makes it even worse.
He is horrible. Frightening you is worse than his lying and cheating IMHO.

Don't challenge him any further - there's zero point. You don't need to be hurt even more at present.
It's not being a "doormat," it is protecting yourself and from your last post that now seems like a priority. Say your piece to him or tell others only once you feel safe again. Get advice from someone like Women's Aid... on what you should do if your spouse is frightening you. You need to protect yourself. It is prudent to err on the side of caution.

You already know he's going to be horrible if you try to challenge him or start proceedings... so keep it under your hat. Let him think he's won this round, let him relax, whilst you quietly collect all relevant facts and documents (I don't think you need proof of cheating at all) but consider your options based on proper professional advice specific to your circumstances, to protect yourself physically, legally and financially and to provide for your children. You will feel safer and more in control and in charge of your own life.

He does hate you, @Anon1234567891 and treats you with absolute contempt. It's really awful. I've been there. It's a terrible thing to do to someone you're supposed to love. He's also a massive (bullyboy) coward who doesn't have the strength or integrity to leave you himself. He's a terrible human being. I'm glad to hear you're starting to feel your anger about how he's treating you. You don't have to stand up to him and you absolutely shouldn't put yourself in danger. It's time to withdraw from him and quietly plan your exit and a future for you and your DCs where no one treats you like crap. You've come a long way already. I'm proud of you. I used to try and keep this phrase in mind - don't wrestle with pigs because you both get dirty and the pig likes it. Just step away and get planning for a much better future.

Just wanted to add, he hates you because he is hateful. It's a reflection on him, not you.

Tough luck for him! Who cares what he thinks or does, violence aside, ignore him and crack on. It’ll be a hard period to get through but think about how peaceful your life would be without him in it.

He’s disrespecting you, gaslighting you, lying to you and discussing his marriage and wife with other women. He actually sounds like a 15 year old, not a grown man.

Op I was in a similar situation. I knew I had to take really small steps so he didn’t overreact for the sake of the kids. If it’s worse than that contact woman’s aid for help. We went to counselling together. Where the counsellor called him out and he didn’t like it. But having more honest conversations may help. Can you be clever about it, ask if he is happy etc? Start making him think. Then you can hopefully start to move forward. Also go to a solicitor, check entitled to for finances. Make a plan.

Today I saw my therapist and we came to the conclusion that I would find it hard to get past this especially with other stuff in the past. Then later he came home and we talked, he was shocked that I would say it was over if he didn’t show me his phone so that was why he was angry. He seemed more understanding, had said if he had known how bothered about the cinema I was he wouldn’t have gone which he did say before but it was more about the messages. He sent a message from work saying he felt sad, uneasy and fearful so now I thought he understood how I felt. I sent a message back saying that now he was more understanding about how hurt I was that he was having interactions with someone else rather than me and if he was open and honest so I didn’t think he was hiding stuff then maybe we could move forward, which I thought was quite gracious of me under the circumstances. I thought he would be happy that maybe I could get past it but when he came home he wasn’t happy, said some of my comments were harsh and he didn’t think it was serious enough to be considering my future and didn’t understand why I was so hurt as he thought it would need to be something worse to have that reaction. Why do I keep thinking he’s going to be sorry and glad that I might want to work it out but instead he still thinks he’s right and I’m wrong.

Op its because he doesn’t respect you or your feelings his work colleague is obviously more important than you. He couldn’t be any clearer you just need to decide if you want to be with someone who thinks so little of you. He hasn’t even pretended to be sorry because he’s not he wants you to say hey dh sorry I was wrong asking you to do things for me that you don’t want to. Let’s forget it. But you can’t because it’s not normal. He is telling other people you are crazy why because he thinks his behaviour is normal and yours isn’t. No compromise no future.

But OP you’re getting too caught up on wanting him to realise he’s wrong and that might never happen. You’re allowed to break up because of this. You don’t need proof that he cheated, it’s irrelevant really, because cheating is just betrayal and he has betrayed you. Hundreds of women on here have told you that they wouldn’t stand for it and would separate. It is totally your choice but what you want to happen isn’t going to happen I’m sorry. It doesn’t matter if there’s never a ‘haha, caught you’ moment. It is enough that he didn’t care about your feelings, it is enough that he didn’t end the friendship. In real life if you explain this to anyone 95% of people will say that they also would have been upset and ended the relationship.