“D”H, cinema, female colleague- update messages

[Anon1234567891]

A couple of months ago I posted about DH going on the odd cinema trip with a female colleague/friend and how on the most recent trip I felt weird/jealous about it. I didn’t think there was anything physical but didn’t know if it was a bit more than friends and felt that he didn’t prioritise going out with me so was annoyed he was going out with her.
We talked and initially he was sympathetic and said he didn’t want to upset me but I asked if he would show me his phone messages to her and he was defensive and cross and wouldn’t even though he said there wasn’t anything “inappropriate”. There were a couple of other things I found he had hidden from me not directly related to this which I was annoyed about but we tried to move on.

But it still bothered me that he wouldn’t show me his messages so the other day I decided to look at his work phone as I couldn’t see his personal one and found these messages on teams.

Relating to the cinema he sent a picture of one of those double lie down beds you get at some cinema’s and said “we could have done sofa bed but a bit OTT for the first date” - it was the “first date” bit that got me.

Then there was one saying “because seats recline going higher than normal please make sure you have underwear on - this time!” She replied “spoil sport”. WTF was that about.

There were also messages about minor work issues where he replied “you are amazing” and “you are always welcome” and one where he put😍after the message.

So is this work banter or something else, there was nothing like this to anyone else. He has banged on for weeks about how I should trust him but if this is on his work phone what’s on his personal.

And to the people that kept telling me men and women can be friends would this make a difference to that opinion, I couldn’t see him sending this to a male friend.

What ultimatum? He's told you what he wants to, you know what you do, and now you either need to believe him or not. If they haven't done more/gone further than he's already told you, then he can't tell you any more. And he can't do any more, although most people would cut contact with alleged affair partner to save their marriage.

Bottom line is with you trust him or you don't. If you don't trust your partner trying to keep the relationship going is hollow and ultimately destined to failure.

@Anon1234567891 Can you not get into his phone OP? Does he never leave it lying around or do you not know the PIN?

Tell him it’ll be fine and dusted when he gives you free access to his phone. Until then he is needlessly imposing horrible uncertainty upon you

I have good male friends and we message in exactly the same way as with my female friends. The messages you saw were flirtatious at best. I’d be shocked if any of my male friends messaged me ‘jokes’ about dates or keeping my knickers on. Same with my female friends.

Might have helped to ask your DH if he’d message like that to his male friends? If not, why? Is it OK with him if you have a ‘friend’ who you go to the cinema with and who you joke with about it being a date and whether they’re wearing underwear. If she showed those messages to her manager and complained, his job would be at risk. What an idiot he is.

IMHO he has no respect for you. You can’t trust him. He and his friend are calling you crazy. So, why torment yourself with this guy any more? Who needs a guy like that? Hold your head high and say “not me”.

If you can’t afford to live separately, then you clearly need to get yourself into a position where you can. Even if you have to keep cohabiting in the meantime, and coparenting, you need to get over him emotionally and deal with the end of your romance. From your kids PoV, the best outcome now is you’re friends and co-parents. You need to get to a place where you view him as a temporary flatmate and have your own life.

I suggest counselling and starting to build an independent life. Make new friends who’ve never met him and never will. Reconnect with old friends you can trust. Enjoy your own company and doing things with your kids.

But forget about ‘proving’ he’s not trustworthy. You know you can’t trust him to respect you. And he thinks you’re crazy. Why seek more and more proof he’s an idiot? Focus your precious energy, time and love on yourself, your kids and others who love you and are worthy of your trust.

It’s difficult to move on in any way when he refuses to take any responsibility.

It wasn't difficult for him to disrespect you and the marriage when you were home being the good wife.

A marriage is between two people, no need to involve the colleague, OW's husband or the OW.

The only person who can fix what they started is your DH, but so far, he's continued to contact her despite knowing how it makes you feel.

Not only has he no respect for you, your vows, your family but he doesn't care what you think or how you feel.

A decent married man/woman would not be sending "no panty" jokes to a colleague.

The fact that it's got this far shows the writing is on the wall.

he made his decision, now,

You get to decide.

This post demonstrates normal, decent thinking by normal, decent people.

I’d be shocked if any of my male friends messaged me ‘jokes’ about dates or keeping my knickers on. Same with my female friends.

Funnily enough, I thought the same about the reclining seats and the no knickers thing. I couldn't really imagine that kind of conversation going on even with one of my female friends. Maybe back when we were giggly 16 year olds, but as a married woman, I'd probably just think does she really need to be envisaging that. I'm straight btw and fwiw. I certainly wouldn't think for a moment of conjuring up that image for a male friend.

The problem is these men aren't decent. The mistake so many people, ok women, make is to look at the situation through our own moral lens, with our own moral compass. It is incredibly destabilizing then it slowly becomes apparent that they are operating on another level completely. Your mind doesn't want to believe it because you can't conceive of treating someone like that.

Agree.

Very cruel that two people are speaking like this, whilst op is clearly tormented by their disrespect.

A husband should be protecting a wife from threats not inviting them to destroy his wife.
He is allowing this and his friend is exceptionally cruel to join in with her dehumanisation.

Really awful.

Hi OP, you need to contact Solicitor asap. How old are the children? You may be able to keep the house and he may have to move out but provide maintenance. This is why you need as much financial information on who earns what, the details of the messages and "dates" to give the Solicitor who will be able to give you some advice on what you could/should do next. I don't see why you should move out and with maintenance and any earnings from you - not sure if you work or not, but you may be eligible for benefits if/when he leaves. Does he pay all of the bills e.g. Mortgage? C.Tax, Water, Energy, Food. Don't let him dictate what is going to happen. I don't usually like to give advice but the fact that he will not admit that comments were totally inappropriate and he knows this, refused to show you all the messages and give you the PIN to his phone, well I'm sorry but he is choosing her over you. Weekends away so what? He would just say to her "Just to shut her up and stop her whining, we won't be intimate." Also, when he says he showed the PIN to you, how did he show it? i.e. you were near when he put it in to make a call or check his messages? - that is not showing you, and if he had shown you and you hadn't noticed or couldn't remember, then he won't mind writing it down for you, will he? So sorry you are still dealing with this. Personally I couldn't stand it because I can't stand the thought of someone insulting my intelligence apart from the hurt infidelity causes. don't know what support system you have, you may have disconnected from friends when you had children and stopped socialising so much. You need to reconnect with those friends who you were close to, confide in the close friends you have now if you have any at the moment and reach out to those relatives that you think you could rely on if you decided to leave even just for thinking time and you needed somwhere to stay. Do you still have parents or siblings and are you close? Think only of you and the children's future now and if you have any money coming in try and save if only a little bit. Would you qualify for legal aid if you did decide on the divorce route? So much for you to think about so I won't addle your brain any further. Take care and keep all your supporters on here in the loop, so the more knowledgable ones can offer you advice.

A husband should be protecting a wife from threats not inviting them to destroy his wife.
He is allowing this and his friend is exceptionally cruel to join in with her dehumanisation.

Yes, they are probably bonding further by mocking the OP. You would be amazed how quickly it would lose its gloss though, if the OP left him. The forbidden fruit factor would be no more

Perfect summary of literally everything that has gone on.
👌 Love it. Perfectly put.
Listen to this lady OP.

I can’t think what sort of ultimatum you could give him that would make you feel any better.

No, because he will twist everything and gaslight the OP, til she ends up thinking it’s all her fault.

Just made him show me his messages as we were discussing it then I saw he was on WhatsApp. I said if he didn’t show me then that was it and he said how dare I fucking threaten him, and that I don’t want to threaten him. He then went through them but didn’t hand over the phone. Tbh there wasnt anything bad on there apart from the fact he is messing her about things when we are all out together including on my birthday but ok. If he had showed me in the first place then I wouldn’t think he was hiding something, he just seems to think I should have complete trust in him despite everything. He had then messaged the other friend telling her how I wanted to look at his phone and she said something about being firm with me but he wouldn’t show me that or tell me. Despite the fact that it doesn’t look like he has done anything more serious his attitude just makes me want to leave him more. I knew he’d get nasty if I pushed him further that’s why I’m scared of leaving him.

The fact that he's discussing you in a bad light with his colleague and OW is enough to show you how he doesn't value you OP. There's no respect there.

Please be safe but you don't need to see anything else. He's treating you appallingly and is enjoying the attention from three women making him feel like he's a prize.

And his Christmas presents were a 3 out of 10 apparently.

He is bullying you op.

TBH I don't totally get the whole "phones are private" thing on MN.

DH and I constantly grab whichever phone is nearest to check the time, convert metric to imperial or whatever. We both know each other's passwords. I don't particularly feel the need to be checking his messages, but if something had made me feel suspicious, I think it's only reasonable to ask. People are entitled to know where their relationship stands.

The "be firm with her" comment sounds like it comes from an idiot.

@Anon1234567891 This isn’t a good relationship. The fact that he has been so unwilling to reassure you, the fact that he’s reacted with anger and accusations, the fact that he’s sent such inappropriate messages in the first place, and most importantly the fact that the way he reacts is bad enough to make you feel scared of leaving him.

This isn’t healthy, and it’s not your fault that it’s not healthy - it’s his. The way he’s behaving isn’t normal. Please get support from friends and family and get yourself out of there. It’s not good for you to live with the constant stress - no matter how horrible he might make the leaving process, hold onto the knowledge that at the end of it you’ll be free.

Sending you positive thoughts and strength.

OP this is no way to live

OP, these abusive men all read the same manual. My ex husband, who was having an affair with a married colleague, also discussed how irrational I was with another married colleague. They used to go on coffee dates and discuss me. This is not and will repeat not healthy behaviour in any relationship. He is bullying you and it’s not fair. I am also incensed at those women. What is wrong with them!

I'm sorry op, this sounds hard. Nobody gives anyone 100 % trust. He has given you cause to be suspicious. I hate that he is bitching about you to another female friend.
Honestly my husband might be pissed off if I demanded to look at his phone, but he would rather I looked that feel so bad. I think this is equally the issue. He knows how much this is upsetting you.

I stupidly thought originally he would apologise and beg my forgiveness how wrong was I.

Your husband is a -1 out of ten.
The disrespect is terrible - running to another female colleague for validation.
please continue with the therapy to get strong. He’s a bully. My ExH was now. But once you stop fearing him, it will remove his “power” over you. This is what you need - confidence in yourself. You have got this. It takes a while to believe in yourself but once it does you won’t look back!

I meant my ExH was too. He can’t bully me anymore, I ignore him and my daughters though they love him also are less forgiving than I was of his awful behavior!