Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ND: support thread 17

[SpecialMangeTout3]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5355546-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-16?page=10&reply=148665446

Honestly I’m scared of her growing up and I’m sad that we have this relationship and that she is like this and nothing seems to have any impact. The only way she does a relationship is to control, manipulate, transaction and if it doesn’t work she attacks as her feelings are hurt. No comprehension of others at all.

@Theydontwantme, I send you a barrow load of sympathies, for what it’s worth.

I’ll let you know how our ‘consequences’ strategy goes. We decided to start treating him like an adolescent behaving like a toddler, as he was tantrumming & lashing out like one and hurling out the logic of one.

Apparently, did you know, ‘nothing’s fair’ and ‘aaaargh’? And let’s not forget the classic, ‘you don’t give a shit about me! You never have!’ - this screamed to a dad who has stuck by him, but is now in tears, has a bloody nose (from DSS), and now thinks he’s close to having another heart episode.

(DSS’s mother walked away when he was just turning 12, in case you’re wondering. I got together with DP nearly a year later.)

@Theydontwantme have you come across RSD (Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria), it often goes hand in hand with ADHD. Her over reactions to doing something wrong could be an extreme sense of shame, fear of being disliked, and pushing away the idea of being wrong. Honestly I’d see if therapy would help, some people become people pleasers but I can see a protection of self response coming out the other way too. I reckon it can be explored, I don’t think it ever goes away, but they can learn to get a grip on it. Just a thought. 🙂

It definitely could be but it’s really awful to be on the end of and unacceptable really. She shut her siblings fingers in the door the other day after having a tantrum over loosing something as she told me to shut up. She refused to apologise as I was to blame for removing something and upsetting her feelings…completely overlooked her rudeness. She literally said I would apologise if it was my fault but you hurt my feelings. The fact she hurt her sibling didn’t care or that she told me to shut up, it feels like she has no empathy.

I have to say, I too see ND behaviour and overwhelm/shot down rather than abusive behaviour.
This is the type of behaviour - full on push back - I’d have got with dc2 if I had punished him. Dh would go into shutdown if I was approaching any ‘unsuitable behaviour’ head on.
I found with dc2 punishment never worked. Instead I just said No, you don’t do xyz. It’s rude/hurtful/whatever. Ie an explanation as to why it’s not ok. And then I’d direct him towards repair (eg tidying up usually with me alongside when he was little).
im mean seriously, I wouldn’t be surprised if what your dd is doing is having a meltdown rather than a tantrum. When iverwhelmed, I found that neither dh nor dc2 can think. It’s all reactivity. Theres little control there.

Reactivity is definitely the case with DH. I heard him yelling last night because DS had apparently repeatedly said something he didn't understand and it wound DH right up so he blew a gasket. I'm pleased that this morning DS asked to talk about it because he felt it wasn't acceptable (which it wasn't) especially as they were just talking about a TV programme. DS says he wasn't saying the thing more than twice.

I told DH this, rather nervously, but he took it OK - he insists DS was repeating himself annoyingly, but I did remind DH that I've witnessed him seeming to exaggerate something someone said or did in his head when he gets dysregulated, like he'll say one of the kids was doing something far too slowly, when I was watching and they were doing it as fast as they could be expected to be, or that I had kept talking over him when I know I stopped the moment he opened his mouth.

No one can think can they when the red midst descends. It doesn’t change how unacceptable the behaviour is whatever causes it and I fear if she doesn’t gain support she will be alone through life or abusive. Disability or not people won’t put up with the behaviour. I’m hoping some support will help. I feel like I’m in an abusive relationship with my child, walking on eggshells afraid of doing or saying the wrong thing. What with my mum and child I’ve have pretty much enough.

@Theydontwantme

RO DBT or DBT might be worth looking at. You need a skilled therapist to help, not any old therapist. It sounds tough. I hope you can get the help you need.

Hurting a sibling like that is not ok. Poor all of you. 🫂

Maybe even just an assessment of social communication with SALT or educational psychologist who work with ND as a starting point. They’ll be able to pinpoint deficits in social and emotional reciprocity and language. It helped so much when DD had SALT for a year aged 9. But her issues were different but it was the assessment that was a good starting place to begin helping her have a better life.

That’s it really I want her to have a better life as the way she behaves pushes everyone away. Her friends don’t like the conflict and neither do I. Her life will be so hard if she continues and she blames everyone else. What hurts is that she says if she had a different mum then she would be different. But I know it’s not me, it can’t be me and everyone in the whole world.

There is never any resolution, no acknowledgement of fault, no reasoning or understanding, no remorse or empathy, no connection after any argument or situation. The only response I get is you hurt my feelings.

I’ve found ChatGPT interesting to talk to with regards to some of this stuff,

maybe this approach might help?

It’s important to respond in a way that is protective, not shaming, while also being realistic about what the child can and cannot do right now.
I’ll do three things:

1. Explain what may be going on developmentally/emotionally (without diagnosing)
2. Explain why reasoning and “repair talks” aren’t working
3. Offer exact language you can use that helps rather than escalates
4. What may be happening for this child (in plain terms)

From what you’ve described, this child appears to have very limited capacity for relational repair at the moment. That can happen when a child:

• Becomes overwhelmed very quickly
• Experiences conflict as a threat, not a disagreement
• Feels shame or fear so intensely that responsibility feels unbearable
• Lacks access to felt empathy in the moment (even if they have it later or in theory)

In these states, the child is not being willfully cruel or manipulative — their nervous system is saying: “If I admit fault, I will collapse / be bad / be unlovable.” So the mind does the only thing it can:

• Externalize blame
• Defend the self at all costs
• Reduce everything to “you hurt me”

This is not a moral failure. It is a regulation and integration problem.

1. Why reasoning, empathy lessons, and “talking it through” aren’t working

This is crucial. When the child is dysregulated:

• They cannot access perspective-taking
• They cannot integrate cause and effect
• They cannot hold “I was hurt” and “I hurt someone” at the same time

So when adults push for:

• Acknowledgement
• Apology
• Understanding
• Resolution

…the child experiences it as attack, not guidance. That’s why things get worse, not better. Trying to reason with a dysregulated child is like asking someone who is drowning to explain how they fell into the water.

1. The most important reframe for the parent

You need to stop asking: “Why won’t she take responsibility?” And start asking: “What capacity is missing right now, and how do I scaffold it?” This shifts the goal from insight to containment.

1. What to say to the child (very concrete)

Here is language that meets the child where they are, instead of asking them to be somewhere they can’t yet reach. A. When the child says: “You hurt my feelings.” Instead of arguing or explaining, respond with: “I hear that you feel hurt. I’m listening.” Full stop. No “but”. No correction. This helps the child feel seen without reinforcing blame. B. When the child blames everyone else or says “If I had a different mum…” This is extremely painful, but responding defensively makes it worse. A regulating response is: “It sounds like you’re feeling overwhelmed and wishing things were easier. I’m still here.” Not:

• “That’s unfair”
• “You don’t mean that”
• “You’ll understand one day”

Those escalate shame. C. When there is no remorse or repair Stop requiring remorse. Instead say: “We don’t have to agree right now. We will take space, and we’ll come back when things are calmer.” This teaches:

• Conflict doesn’t end relationships
• Repair can happen later
• Calm comes before understanding

D. After the storm (this is when learning happens) Much later — when calm — you can say: “Earlier was hard for both of us. Next time, we’ll work on stopping things before they explode.” Notice:

• No blame
• No replay
• No demand for apology

Repair is modeled, not extracted.

1. About the mother’s heartbreak (“It must be me”)

A child saying: “If I had a different mum…” …is not a factual assessment. It is a distress signal. It means: “I feel bad inside and I need the world to make sense.” Children often aim pain at the safest person. That doesn’t mean the parent caused the pain.

1. What actually helps children like this long-term

• External regulation before internal regulation
• Clear boundaries without emotional lectures
• Predictable responses
• Reduced focus on blame
• Professional support if possible (especially someone familiar with neurodivergence or emotional regulation difficulties)

And very importantly:

• The parent must stop measuring success by remorse
• Success is shorter storms, not perfect insight

Sorry if you’ve tried any of this before, just trying to help. I hope you find a way ❤️‍🩹

there’s a book also on Amazon called the explosive child. Thousands of good reviews. Might be worth looking at.

Thanks, god I wish it were as easy as reading. I have another child who has started copying my eldest, started saying she hates me and hitting and all the same things. They are only young. This is all very hard.

god I wish it were as easy as reading

I know, @Theydontwantme

We’ve read a bible’s worth of theory, practice, applied techniques, basic tactics, advanced strategies, you name it … but if the child or young person vehemently or aggressively refuses to engage, then there’s no help. If they refuse to see a therapist, then there’s no help. If they refuse to appear on a zoom call, then there’s no help. Etc etc.

Pretty much all of the advice we’ve seen and been given about ‘next steps’ has been predicated on a level of compliance that with some youngsters is completely unrealistic.

Now we have an adult child who has aged out of even being regarded as a ‘young adult’, and we’re still lost. And we’re not getting any younger (average age 60 years). It has taken its toll financially as well (whole other story!).

We cancelled today’s Boxing Day family get-together.

Theydontwantme, have you read about pathological demand avoidance in children?

It sounds like it could be that... ? maybe?

https://parents.actionforchildren.org.uk/neurodiversity/autism/support-pda/

None of this easy. If only it were... big hugs mama...

We had an interesting issue today. Oldest DC is (I need to send some questionnaires off) part way through assessment for autism - I don't think he will get it because I don't think he'll meet criteria for it causing him social or learning deficits although yes, I think he is on the spectrum. As a reminder, he was assigned female at birth and I think the criteria just don't work well for women, girls and AFAB people.

Anyway, today both sets of grandparents came over for lunch - he refuses a hug from MIL and tells her he doesn't feel comfortable with it. He is not generally a huggy person but also he has decent reason for not emotionally trusting MIL who won't use his pronouns and has a habit of ambushing him at family events and saying things like 'Could I just be allowed to call you [old name he doesn't use]' which is, obviously, really unacceptable.

So MIL takes him aside and gives him a lecture and accuses him of being 'cold' I discover when I go to him in his room and I give him 10 minutes to recover and calm down and tell him MIL's behaviour wasn't on. He does come down and things recover a bit.

I do feel in a bit of a quandary - I understand with young kids the thing about bodily autonomy and you don't have to hug anyone you don't want to, but with someone older and, however 'awkward' they find it (which is the word he uses it), part of me thinks there is some capability to understand things we should be expected to do even if we don't feel like it. I'm not going to force him to have a closer relationship with MIL and we do sometimes make efforts to make sure he doesn't have to spend time alone with her in case she says some shit. But there are other things we kind of let slide when he can be a bit inconsiderate - never doing washing up, borrowing stuff without asking, going to bed without saying goodnight and I think we need to talk about this stuff before he goes to uni. He has a lot of ND friends and everyone forgives one another their quirks but not everyone he meets will be like that. He is a very caring an unselfish person, but I think he does have some difficulties remembering to factor in other people around him.

Sorry about the essay...

@Echobelly how old is your ds? I’m thinking mid teenagehood, like 14~15yo?
I think the older they are, the more you need to leave it to them on that.

ive had that quandary with my dcs. I’m French, the hugging and kissing to say hello IS really part of the norm there. And yet dc1 has never felt comfortable with it. Even with me, he’ll do it but you can tell he is making an effort.
im the only person dc2 is happy to hug/kiss.
For years, I’m been pushing them to give people a kiss ‘because it’s only polite’ etc…. Now I’m thinking I shouldn’t have insisted. If they dint want to, they dint. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

The deadnaming is absolutely not on. I can see why ds isn’t keen or able to trust her tbh.

@Echobelly how old is your ds? I’m thinking mid teenagehood, like 14~15yo?
I think the older they are, the more you need to leave it to them on that.

ive had that quandary with my dcs. I’m French, the hugging and kissing to say hello IS really part of the norm there. And yet dc1 has never felt comfortable with it. Even with me, he’ll do it but you can tell he is making an effort.
im the only person dc2 is happy to hug/kiss.
For years, I’m been pushing them to give people a kiss ‘because it’s only polite’ etc…. Now I’m thinking I shouldn’t have insisted. If they dint want to, they dint. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

The deadnaming is absolutely not on. I can see why ds isn’t keen or able to trust her tbh.

I do not hug people, I find it overwhelming (apart from kids because they need it but I internally find it weird), I wouldn’t tell my children to hug anyone they didn’t want to. No way would I hug your MIL, no emotional safety, no respect for him, I’d be out the door.

My FIL tried to literally force my daughter on Xmas morning to try a sip of his drink from his cup, she just couldn’t. She can’t and neither can I share anything, I can’t even share from my own kids. It’s causes me great stress, I don’t know why. I’m repulsed.

Sorry, should have said. He's 17 - will be going to uni in 9 months.

He was never the most cuddly child - he did do affectionate things but wasn't a big cuddler. I remember noticing that when my grandfather was dying in hospital and DC was 10, DS, who was 3 years younger seemed to understand and respond to the emotional situation much more and DC seemed to keep a distance from it all. I didn't expect either of them to be super sad about their great grandfather even though we saw a lot of him, as neither was I about my two great-grandfathers, who I did know.

He has shown more signs of having difficulty with things like noisy rooms as he's got older, but obviously I don't know how much he was masking discomfort before he was aware of possible ND. When younger he really hated loud hand-dryers though, and still can't take fireworks.

He sounds a lot like me who’s just been labelled a little awkward her whole life. Until hormones have stopped me from being able to mask. The mask can become so strong, especially as I was always very intelligent. I never realised until these last few years just how diverse I really am, how many things I’ve sucked up (like fireworks or any unexpected noise) I was always told I was just too sensitive so I’ve worn that label forever and shamed myself for it. Turns out I was just high masking until the wheels fell off.

I was never a cuddler outside of my family - whereas DC is more likely to hug with friends than family. I do hug him but not too much as I can feel he isn't a fan.

Socially I'd say he is much more successful than me or his father - we worried a bit when he went to secondary, as he only ever really had a few friends at primary school, but luckily he found friends quickly and now finds them through activism and LGBTQ+ groups, though he is still friends with secondary school and few primary school friends.

But in a shared living situation like university I will need remind him of the importance of tidying up and washing up. I know he will do very kind things like cooking for people (he's determined to find ways to get room/hallmates to eat vegetables after being horrified a friend says they only ate one vegetable in their entire first term!)

I did twenty years of that mood. Particularly unpleasant when doing DIY, but also if the car was iced up, if we were running 5 mins late for something even if it didn’t really matter, queuing in airports, traffic - essentially anything he wasn’t in absolute control. In the end I hated him for it. I don’t care what the reason is, if he can not do it at work, he could have chosen to not do it for me and the kids. Anxiety is often very controlling and very selfish.
also, if I did anything other than pander to it, he would become moody/hurt/frantic for days.
for years I thought it was my job to accommodate it all. But it’s not. No one owes their whole life to anyone. We’re divorced now, and even though it was years ago, I am still relieved every day.

Congratulations- it takes real courage. Well done for choosing you.

That’s the thing with a lot of the autistic behaviours. I know they are coming from a place of activation that they don’t have control over but they come across as very selfish. Needing control, needing to avoid, needing to be quiet, needing this and that. I don’t mind any of it really if there was some reciprocating. I guess all ND people are different, some can like myself see other people (even though I get overwhelmed and not sure what to do, but I still show up).

My sibling he is very self focused on their interest which he turned into his work. My SIL is very very placid, she wouldn’t say boo to a goose and never challenges him in anything. He went to work all over Xmas apart from the day. Didn’t spend any time with his kids or her. I’d not be able to put up with that. She is literally a door mat, can’t work because he won’t stop all hours, she is just sat at home all day. He has no thoughts about her and perhaps what she might need, she needs what he needs and that’s that.

I have a friend who is autistic, female and she just rightfully says I can’t be in a relationship or have kids because I wouldn’t be able to give them what they needed as I want to do my own things.

I feel the situation is very different when you talk about children vs adults.

With a child, autism is first me a reason and the cause. It tells me how to approach the situation (it’s overwhelm, what dc2 needed was to learn how to deal with said overwhelm, not punishment - which never worked for him).
Selfishness is developmentally appropriate. And children with ASD are often immature, in that it takes them longer together stuff. A good friend of mine has a ds on the spectrum and he has consistently been 2~3 years behind maturity wise. He is now 23yo. He is just starting to behave like an 18~19yo. At uni doing very well study wise but unable to live on his own for example. Or make friends etc….
i wouldn't expect reciprocity from a child.

Adults, esp when it’s a partner, I feel it’s harder because the last thing you want is to become a default parent instead of a partner. The reciprocity is something you expect. Adapting to their disability is fair enough but how much adaptation is it ok to do?
I think it depends a lot of what adaptations are needed and what’s working for you. Whether you end up disappearing or if you can still be yourself.
i also feel that, until you’ve experienced yourself being disabled and needing help, it can be hard to really appreciate how much harder life is when you’re dependent on someone. Or need adaptations, that might allow you to do xyz but won’t remove the difficulty to do xyz iyswim.
what I feel is unfair is to say that if someone is autistic and can’t ‘take other people into account’, then they shouldn’t even try to have a relationship. For me, it’s like saying if you can’t clean the house, cook etc… you shouldn’t be in a relationship because how dare you impose your struggles and lack of to someone else. You’re a burden and are making them your carer. Which is really ableist.

Kids are obviously different. Not being able to clean a house is very different in my opinion. It’s a situation that the person can accept help for and it doesn't impose personally on the connection of a relationship, . Not being able to do a relationship, avoiding, exploding, dismissing is different, that eats away at the connectivity and no adaptations can stop this. Not being able to receive the things your heart and soul need, not just having to get in a cleaner or make accommodations. No accommodations for my mum will make my soul and heart feel connected. Without that connection in my opinion there is nothing, she’s just another person amongst millions in the world. Maybe I’m being selfish.