Was I wrong in this argument? I need outside perspective

[notaurewhatusername]

I came downstairs this morning and saw our baby in just a long-sleeve vest, no trousers. I asked my husband to please put trousers on him in the mornings. He said yes.

I then looked at the thermostat and said it was only 18 degrees (thinking that was the temperature shown). He went over and said it was actually 21 degrees. I got frustrated and said “I don’t give a fuck what temperature it is, can you just put trousers on him - you have trousers on and it’s not that warm.”

He responded by saying I’m either “stupid or a liar” for saying the thermostat was 18 degrees. I genuinely misread it by 3 degrees - I wasn’t lying.
We had a big argument. Later he said he’s nasty to me because I’m nasty to him first. He said he was “minding his own business” and I came in and interrupted his day. He also said he WANTS to hurt me when he says things like I’m stupid or a liar, because I hurt him first.

I keep thinking this is my fault - I shouldn’t have checked the thermostat after he said yes about the trousers. I shouldn’t have sworn. Maybe I provoked this?

Am I wrong here? We keep entering into this vicious cycle, he says I’m a bully and just want him to do as I say when it comes to looking after our son. I think my requests are basic parenting, he sees it as bullying?

You both sound pretty toxic with each other - you absolutely need to try and address your part in that for the sake of your child, but his part is his responsibility and not yours

She references name calling.

You’re replying to the wrong person

You provoked him but it's not helpful for the two of you to start believing that every argument is 'your fault' while he is completely blameless. Please book a few sessions of couples counselling to work out what is going on and find a better way of relating, especially in front of your child.

I think you should be considering the whole of the relationship. The trousers/thermostat are a red herring.

Sounds like you can both get into an argument very easily. You could have said it feels a bit cool in here, I think the baby needs trousers on. Or you could just put trousers on the baby if you think it's too cool. Should hardly be worth a comment, let alone a full blown row and hurling insults at each other. And presumably right over the baby too.

I agree.

It sounds like a toxic, damaging relationship for the child to grow up in. Do you often escalate straight to swearing when you are verbally challenged?

I think the best thing for the child is that you separate so yhe child stops having to witness you abuse each other.

Whilst the name calling isn't okay, I understand completely that hurt people hurt people.

So you coming downstairs and instantly zoning in what is (in your opinion) wrong, is really shitty, and no wonder he's shitty back.

I'd be the same, theres no excuse for either of the attitudes, but you absolutely started an issue both times that probably could be helped with a different tone of voice, or wording it differently.

Maybe check baby was cold first, pop a blanket on him and grab some pants yourself. Baby can stop opening his mouth if he's still swallowing, they are smart little cookies - it's not easy to force feed a baby!

Good luck.

It sounds like you started both arguments.

Oh dear, you’re both in a bit of a tangle aren’t you. Neither of you is treating the other with kindness or respect.

Counselling for you both perhaps because unless you both make an effort to learn to be nice and respectful to each other you’re just going to be enemies living in the same house and your poor kid is going to grow up very unhappy.

It’s clear that things are such a mess. I don’t even know where to start to fix them. I can only fix and work on myself, but what if that doesn’t work?

It’s just that things have gotten way out of hand. We are both like two children in a relationship, even though we both hold down really mature jobs with lots of responsibility. It’s embarrassing. I know I’ve got issues to work on, but there are deeper issues, and some posters are right about saying that this issue was just a red herring. It absolutely is. This is the tip of the iceberg. There are many more issues that go deeper than this. I’m happy to expand if it helps, but there are just so many built-up underlying issues, and this scenario was, I guess you could say, an explosion of the deeper issues.

We just had a discussion, and he acknowledged that he doesn’t have empathy and has things that he needs to work on, but of course the anger is my main issue. My anger comes out of frustration and deep issues.

I think… I don’t even know. When I say he has no empathy, here’s an example, and this is not me trying to paint him in a bad light—I’m just trying to give people an example of why I get wound up. I’ve been seriously ill for the last few months since the baby was born. At the time, I didn’t realise it, and he would criticise some of the behaviors that this illness was responsible for. Once we found out I was ill, I asked him for an apology for some of the main things he said to me, and he wouldn’t apologise on the basis that he wasn’t privy to the information when he said those things. I said, “But what if the apology means a lot to me?” He said he’s not doing it because it would just be fake. Now, I kind of get that, but I didn’t understand how someone couldn’t see why an apology would be warranted in that situation. I appreciate that I can’t change his behavior and I can’t change his actions, but these are the kinds of things that hurt me. He had said very mean things to me while I was ill such as I’m lazy, I’ve gone crazy and what’s wrong with me etc

I just don’t know. This is very sad, and I really want to fix this situation. I’m just in a real spiral.

Regardless of who started it, what he said to you was unacceptable. That doesn't absolve you of your part in it, but it means he is a nasty piece of work.

I think the truth is you’re not right for each other. Sometimes people marry the wrong person and this is one of those times.

Seems to me that you don't complement each other.

My ex was very laid back and when we got divorced, both of our families were totally blind sided as we genuinely never fought. Never.

But nothing was ever resolved either.

It's a bit of a red flag that any issues are perceived to be, ' your fault,' and your pattern with each other it all gets escalated but that he doesn't want to work on his reactions to you.

In the situation above, either of you could have de escalated the situation (maybe use of the word, 'temperature,' is not appropriate here).

I’m not ready to give up. My son is so young I think more attempts to fix is what should happen.

i accept aggression I need to work on, from my posts can others tell me what other areas they think I need to work and also of any resources that may help is is this just a therapy thing?

If I fix myself and there are still issues then that’s a different story. I can only control what I bring to the relationship so I need to fix my shortfalls - after that if it’s still the same then maybe a time to reasses

The way he treated you when you were ill is not what a loving partner should do. It’s unacceptable and makes me want to emphasise my point in my previous post - you can do as much work on yourself as you like, if he doesn’t work on himself, he’ll always be an arsehole.

You were unwell with a newborn. You deserved to be taken care of, not be called nasty names.

I’d have been out the door if I’d been treated like that.

Sounds like it's not about the trousers - and you are carrying a residual anger at him from wider issues.

Can you afford couples counselling?

Your son is so young and impressionable and right now, he's learning that this level of conflict and malice is normal.

I was in an abusive relationship. One of the things I feel so guilty about is how my son also had to adjust to new normal with a healthy, loving partner. There were so many things that he saw as normal, that I knew were not but had become accustomed to avoiding/ignoring. I knew it wasn't normal because I didn't have that start in life. He had to learn what a healthy normal was.

He's fine now, but I remember that process.

FFS the replies on this first page ( all I have read) are appalling. No wonder so many women stay in shit or abusive relationships if these are the replies they hear when they open up.

How fucking fragile are men's ego's allowed to be if a simple factual statement supporting a request is legitimation for them to start a full scale row? How much legitimation of male anger is there in society if a husband can say he deliberately wants to hurt his wife, and the replies from women are that she should not have provoked him by stating what the temperature is. Jesus.

OP, its not you, its him. You are trying to find ways to fix things - he is not. He doesn't need to as its all your fault, in his mind.

He sounds very like by autistic Ex, btw. He couldn't dress the kids appropriately for the temperature or weather either, yet could dress himself appropriately. He made everything a row too, and was always right and I was always trying to find ways to ' fix' things whilst he sat happy knowing it was all my fault and his anger and rage to me (and later the kids) was always justified as we had caused it.

Whether he is autistic or not, you'd be better finding a way to leave a relationship like this rather than fix it.

Already pointed out that DBT is a good place to start.

But listen, if you two are going at each other, that’s going to cause damage to your baby even if you think he’s too young to understand. He might be, but his nervous system is listening and it will be distressing for him and could cause lasting damage. I appreciate you wanting to give it a go for his sake, but also consider the damage all the arguing is doing to him.

Your baby is being stressed out by this nonsense. Grow up or spilt up

@Noneofusi wasn’t going to mention autism but as you bought it up - my own counsellor said she feels autism is at play and unless he gets formal diagnosis she can’t really help much more.

when we did couples therapy she said she could see some neurodivergent traits too.

he admits he may be autistic but that’s as far as it goes. He doesn’t seem to want therapy, resources etc,

I also however can’t blame autism on my anger can I? But a lot of his autistic ways I do believe make me angry and feel dismissed and belittled and it comes out in these situations (hence red herring someone mentioned).

That would be an empty apology though. He doesn't mean it and would only be saying it because you asked him to say it.

I get where you're coming from, something similar happened to me.. he never apologised, or when he did it was a 'i'm sorry you were upset by my actions' non-apology. It's taken 8 years of divorce and him being diagnosed with a similar condition for him to actually, genuinely apologise for the way he acted because he didn't understand what i was going through.

you can't force an apology out of someone.

From what you've said, you need to have a little more trust in his parenting skills, you need to dial back the swearing and being reactive/confrontational in the way you talk to him around some of these issues.

Rather than 'i don't give a fuck what the temp is' you could have said "Oh, i misread it, it feels colder than that in here, which is why i mentioned the trousers" you still get to make you point, without the swearing!