DH is outside, caught in a lie

[Wishthereweremorecrumpets]

Apologies, I’m currently shaking. I’ve just realised I’ve caught out DH in lies as to where he’s been. DH works nights and often six days a week, returning back late at the weekend. He’s told me he’s been going out with a friend a few times as he’s been signed off work following minor surgery. He said he went out with him last night before his mate goes off on holiday. Well, I get on well with his friend so just text him to say have a wonderful trip and asked when he’s off. Turns out he’s already there and was asking how DH is after his surgery.
I feel like such an absolute mug to believe he would be getting in at 6am with mates, he is a night owl because of the night shifts but I’m an idiot.
He’s out again now and not answering the phone. We’ve two DC 7 and 2, not in or from the same country either. Any hand holds?

Who is hundreds of thousands?

Hi @Wishthereweremorecrumpets I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. I am sending you a big hug. I have been in a very similar position to you. I know that cold dread of fearing the worst in your situation. Remember the stories you read in the media are the very worst ones. There are plenty of people who do split or divorce in gulf and Middle East countries and are fine. Their stories don’t get in the press because they are not dramatic enough.

First my advice is take a deep breath. You don’t have to do anything immediately. Don’t let on to dh that you know he lied. Keep your knowledge and cards close to your chest.

Second start an emergency savings fund. Even if it means cutting back do it eg I bought minimal clothes for over a year and was very careful how I spent money. I saved as much as my could and transferred it home. If you can try to get him to help more with money. Say you need so much for school uniforms and them spend half buying second hand. Or you take over the food shop and say you need so much from him then again cut right back and save some. Can you say you need to start saving for a property back in the uk. Make an account in your name and say it is for retirement as you won’t have a pension. Just save as much as you can. Even a little bit is a start and this is why you don’t say anything yet. Give time to save.

Third find support. Is your work supportive? Are you all under your sponsorship? If not will your work sponsor you and the kids? I had a very supportive principal who understood my situation and was wonderful. Put out some feelers there if you can. You can just say there are some problems in your marriage you don’t need to spell out what they are.

Fourth do as much research as you can. As far as I know you cannot just move with the kids to another country without the other parents consent under The Hague Agreement. But it sounds like you want to stay for now so look at how that can be made to work also.

Fifth from my experience of these cultures a lot depends on who you know. Are there any people who would support you eg parents of children’s friends who hold a position in the society. Be careful but cultivate some of these relationships if you can with the women only.

Sixth find a sympathetic doctor and if you need get some antidepressants to get you through. For me these really helped me stay calm and manage not to fall apart.

Seven keep your own reputation supper clean. No male friends, don’t be alone with any men or socialise. Don’t let your husband be able to accuse you of any infidelity. I know this will sound strange to western ears but it is really important. You need to be a woman in of outstanding honour. Speak conservatively and dress conservatively.

Finally I have returned home with my kids with soon to be ex permission. I had a back up plan in case he said no. I still worry and there are still some issues to be sorted but for me it was the right move. It took time we lived in the same house but separated for over a year.

I know of women who were married to local citizens who stayed and had their kids living with them. Women who shared custody eg kids with them in the week and with ex at weekends. And women who moved home. So it can work out.

Good luck OP.

Lying is a sin in islam.its right up there near the top of big sins, along with worshipping other things other than God. And also showing disrespect to parents.

You might not understand or agree, and that's absolutely fine. That's your choice. However in the bible there are many prophets who had hundreds of wives
Several prophets in the Bible had more than one wife. Abraham, Jacob, David, and Solomon are prominent examples of prophets who practiced polygamy, according to the Old Testament.
Here's a more detailed look:
Abraham: Had at least two wives, Sarah and Hagar.
Jacob: Had four wives: Leah, Rachel, Bilhah, and Zilpah.
David: Had multiple wives and concubines.
Solomon: Had 700 wives and 300 concubines.
Moses: While the Bible mentions Moses having one wife, Zipporah, some interpretations suggest he may have had another wife, possibly an Ethiopian woman according to some historical accounts.

. It's just one thing that happens in a few religions. Not just islam.
But in islam, you have to be fair and righteous. You can't hit your wife, you can't slap in the face, you can't cheat, spy or snoop, you can't deceive, you can't bribe or blackmail. You can't be unfair or steal. You can't hurt or murder people unjustly.

And in islam, if you wish to take a 2nd wife, because for example there was a widowed woman whose usband was murdered and ahe has literally no one, no money nothing and the husband and wife agree to help poor Aisha, or something like that it happens. Or for example the wife cannot bear children, so she agrees for him to take on another. It happens. Mormons do it and no one bats an eyelid.
Women also have the right to say no to a second wife. In a Marriage contract and that should be upheld. She also can request divorce and remarry. In fact prophet Muhammed encouraged men to marry women who had been divorced or widowed because they need help.and support.

Some women don't really mind. And men have to be fair and equal to all. It's not men's way or the highway. Women have the rights to money, property and their own work, and their income from their job is all theres but his money is hers too.

Op, I would suggest asking him to talaq you and manage co parenting together in this country ypure in, if you feel you don't want to rip a family apart.

And i never said lying and cheating was respectful. I would never ever say that. Don't know where you got that from

I don't want to derail OPs thread but there really wasnt.

Their employer (KSA university) has to given consent for them to leave the country but paperwork was incorrect.

The tldr is Women should proceed with caution in these types of countries as the OP is now finding out

I would say nothing and make silent plans to leave. Good luck.

FWIW I would do exactly the same. I'd much rather live with an unfaithful husband than live without my children. I'm not sure about the exact logistics though - no chance would I be having unprotected sex if I thought he was shagging someone else.

I had no idea the laws were this rigid. Would it be different if you converted?

Just to reiterate and support what others say.
You cannot let him suspect you know.
Put lots of effort into making him feel everything is good between you until you have a reason/excuse to visit home with the children.

Well plenty of people live like that and accept a partners indiscretions for whatever reasons.
Its a pretty commonplace scenario since forever.

Totally agreed on any prices with caution, 💯.

Though it’s not true that women need permission to leave, OP probably knows that anyway. I’ve entered and exited ksa and uae many times, on a British passport. Without a man’s permission. As long as I had the correct passport / visa / iqama.

I wonder if your relative was on a ‘final exit’ visa and so if paper work was incorrect they’d want all her (and anybody’s) work details to be accurate before she left the country for good. Bit of a pain for her at the time but just admin, not needing a man’s permission to leave.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I’ve been in a similar situation. I completely understand why you’d want to stay and make the best of the situation.
My advice would be

• Get some temporary anti depressants from the GP equivalent, even if you don’t feel you need them, the next few months are going to be pivotal in how you deal with this situation and you need to be thinking straight.
• Join a Facebook Group - there are 2 very good ones called Runaway Husband and Chump Nation (infidelity support). These are groups of thousands of women globally who have been in your situation. You may find someone in your area. The groups provide both emotional and practical support including every step you’ll need to do in the next few months if you intend to stay but furnish a possible escape route for yourself.

The next few days will be tough. I wish you the very best of luck

It was a man.
He lives and works there maybe as a tourist its different.

From chatgpt

If you're under a work visa sponsored by a Saudi employer, you still need an exit or exit/re-entry visa to leave the country.

These are issued through the Absher or Muqeem systems, and your employer (sponsor) usually has to approve or initiate the process.

His paperwork wasnt correctly completed and his exit was blocked and he was "held".
You cannot leave freely without paperwork.

SEN is fine - I don’t think we need to police this sort of thing

I’m not sure where you are in the Middle East but I suggest you sign up to Real Mums Dubai and they will point you in the direction of a help group in the country you are currently in. They are also groups to help you if you proceed to divorce, with advice of solicitors and what laws are on your side and there are more than you think. I appreciate you may not be in Dubai but there is such a wealth of knowledge they will point you in the right direction with kindness and practical help.
good luck.

And even not in remaining in the marriage, it is relying on the dh (and in-laws!) to remain decent and fair. One morning spent to the divorce/separation board will tell you that loving, equal partners very very quickly change when separations happen.
I think the OP is being incredibly naive.

Yes. Not because you need permission from a man.

This is not a recommendation, OP, but, if it were me in that situation, I'd keep completely shtum. Book a holiday (ASAP, with DC) in the UK on the pretext of seeing the grandparents. Then stay in the UK and never go back. Get legal advice in UK. Build a new life.

Can you reach out to local friends / other parents / other expat women / colleagues in the country you live in? I think you are going to need some in person support.

If it's so great, then why does custody of the kids automatically go to the father?

This. I feel you're taking an enormous risk, OP, and one you might hugely regret if you don't get out with the kids while you can.

I know very little a out this topic but the article I read spoke about the man having custody, but the mom still having guardianship, so it may not be a given that op would looses access if they divorced.

Sorry op.

Whilst you don't want to face the hard path and that's fine, you do need to get your ducks in a row and a sound exit strategy in place to get you and your kids to safety.
For all you know your partner is working on this.
If he suddenly left you and petitioned to have the kids with him, what could you do?
Think smart mate.

@Wishthereweremorecrumpets whatever you decide to do, start manoeuvring now to ensure you are in the best position if you do need to act in the future in the best interests of you and your chidren.

I.e. start putting aside money in an account he does not know about - only in your name, is it best to have the account in middle east or uk. Minimal funds in any joint account etc.

Usual Mumsnet advice - get your ducks in a row. Be clever and position yourself so you can act if you need too.

Start planning what you need in place. Save money to quietly consult a lawyer - delete any traces off your phone of calling a lawyer etc so he is none the wiser.

Brush up on the law - what applies in your situation and what you can do to mitigate / position yourself? I think under Sharia law what is in your sole name is yours - he does not get a share- but I am not sure - you need to consult a divorce lawyer familiar with the local law and fact he is Muslim etc and what would apply in your particular situation.

Good luck and wishing the best for you and your kids

@Judgejudysno1fan

"Mormons do it and no one bats an eyelid."

"Women also have the right to say no to a second wife."

On your first point, everyone absolutely bats an eyelid. There have been countless documentaries, news articles and discussions over the years about Mormon polygamy. Mormons are generally seen as a "cult" rather than a religion and this, in part, is due to this practice. If you mention Mormons to anyone, their first line would be "ah, they can take several wives" - a comment invariably made in derogatory terms. In fact the Mormon church itself is deeply divided on the issue.

As for your second point about second wives - "According to scholars, the Shari`ah does not require the husband to get the consent of the first wife for a second marriage."

In any event, the Quran and other holy books can make any number of worthy sounding claims about women's rights, but given that we live without the slightest doubt in a patriarchal world (significantly more so in the Middle East and parts of Asia) then the very notion that these are genuinely put into practice is almost laughable.

🤦‍♀️ this is literally my last response

My original post was totally accurate.
I said everyone has to get permission even if you are british returning to britain and pointed out my relative is male

"And thats for MEN... God knows what BS hoops women need to jump through."

KSA is problematic country for many reasons; only some of those men are related to being female.