Son wont introduce us to girlfriend

[lifesabench]

My DS (35) has had a few long-term relationships, but never married. I get the feeling this one might be "the one". Because he's always had different girls hanging around when my DD had her baby she didn't feel comfortable with the constant changing of arm candy. As such we stopped inviting them all round together. He may or may not turn up to ours with a girlfriend, so we just wouldn't invite them at the same time.

He phones regularly, but we don't see him much now to be honest. When we speak I ask what he's up to and he'll mention going out with his GF's mum or meeting up with her and her sisters for an outing. I have mentioned to him that we'd like to meet her, but he keeps batting away the suggestions.

I know he knows that his sister is the reason he stopped being invited to Sunday lunch and things, I did agree with his sister, that explaining the changing of companions was awkward with a small child, which is why I allowed it. But now, this girl has been 2 years, and he is very much involved with her family. I feel like I've broken something and have no idea how to fix it.

I agree but I also think if her ‘DD’ was single and her DS had met someone years ago and had some kids it would be the opposite scenario.

@bizzywizzy I’m sorry, your family are awful. Sending you 💐 if you want them

@Janicchoplin I don’t think the OP’s DD can have distanced herself from her brother because of her and her husband‘s religious beliefs. I am an evangelical Christian. I gave up sex outside marriage when I became a Christian. I would not dream of acting like the DD, and neither would any of the evangelical Christians that I know. You’re supposed to love your neighbour… not exclude them. It’s bizarre.

They might not approve of sex outside marriage, but there has to be some other reason. The OP did say something about all the girlfriends making it look to her SIL like her family wasn’t the right kind of family. Which to me is weird.

It's actually mentioned that it's because of her religion. And his behaviour with women in a out.

@Janicchoplin The OP said it was because of her religion. That doesn’t mean it was. I have explained why it won’t have been the real reason, or not most of it. There would have to be something else.

Not approving of something doesn’t make most people want to exclude their siblings.

Unfortunately. We only have the ops version of events. My comment stands by what she said. Unless the DD comes and gives her version. I'll stick by my comment

Also. I was born and raised Catholic. I'm glad that "you" wouldn't choose to forsake your siblings due to religion. But you can't speak for everyone. That's very egotistical of you. People can and have treated others badly because of religion. The world is evidence of that. Is it right. Of course not. But we are human. And humans are not perfect.

I read it as the daughter had given her husband the impression they were a family who shared his views, and her brothers behaviour demonstrated that wasn't the case which is why she didn't like it. Not so much the husband found his behaviour offensive, but it would show that the daughter hadn't come from such a devout family.

Jehovah's Witnesses will shun members of their own family. I have seen it happen.

Are you really sure it needs to be a long visit to be worthwhile?

Flip that round another way. Would a short popping round type visit be worth it as part of starting to rebuild the relationship a bit? There’s probably something on the way, or in the area you can tag on to it to avoid it being two hours in the car with a ten minute break. Even if that’s just a different / bigger supermarket.

Personally I couldn't care. It was the other person that was concerned about the religious bit. I could care less

OP - I've been following this thread and wondered - what do you think would be the best way forward?

You've had a lot of suggestions, but it sounds like none of them feel like the right one for you.

Ms too. My friend was excluded from her family and not allowed in same room as her younger sisters because her mum got caught up with JW’s and married a man who told her that my friend was a bad influence on the other children - she was 15.

The minute she left school she moved out and had no contact with her mum.

Her younger sister who she was told she wasn’t allowed to communicate with ended up pregnant at 14 - strict religious upbringing worked well there!

And still your replies centre about what you want and what’s convenient for you @lifesabench.

An hour is nothing. You could suggest meeting for lunch in their town. But no, you want to issue the summons to the family home, dictate the length of visit and presumably retain full control of the situation.

But I have the magic formula you want at last. Take your head out of arse and start changing your behaviour instead of theorising about how you know you were wrong but still can’t be arsed doing anything you don’t want to do.

And still no acknowledgment that your daughter and SIL are the root cause alongside your cowardice and ego. You will find out about any grandchild or wedding long after the fact and long after her family will have been there for the big moments.

Your going to have to stick with the status quo and understand that you may not even meet the girl and her family until he's already proposed.
Unfortunately you have made your bed and now need to lie in it.
What is intriguing though is if he spends so much time with his girlfriends family, then surely she has expressed an interest in his and you. If he's met her parents, then surely she has asked to meet his and you. If this is a serious relationship as you seem to think, the burning question is what has he been telling his girlfriend about his family to dissuade her from meeting you.

I just know what normal evangelical Christian behaviour is, at least in the UK. This isn't it. I've never heard of other kinds of Christian doing it, either. Not in the time I've been a Christian, which is over 30 years.

People have treated others badly with religion involved, yes. But if the religious belief was the only reason, all Christians would do it, and they don't. This shows it is not the only reason.

You have to be prepared that this may not be fixable. You are lucky that son still keeps in touch with you, but you and your DDs behaviour have excluded him for years and he has formed family relationships with his gf's family who welcome him instead of judging and excluding him.

The "arm candy" may not want to meet you given the horrible treatment from your family or perhaps your DS prefers to keep you separate from his relationships. It seems that just because you now see grandchildren on the horizon that you expect to click your fingers and he will fall back into line. But perhaps he doesn't want to expose his gf and future children to his nasty sister and BIL.

You don't say what you intend to do about your dd? Are you going to put your foot down and say no to her? Or do you expect your son to keep pandering to his sisters whims?

Absolutely. This has to be one of the worst frustrating threads ever. She still isn’t listening or hearing a single word so determined is she to stick to her hard and fast ‘rules’ . The fact she won’t even drive for an hour to hold out an olive branch really tells us how serious she’s taking this
It’s my way or no way and it’s because she can’t bear the thought any future grandchildren will have a much better relationship with their other grandparents - the ones who aren’t rigid and judgemental

I read it that way too. And I can’t see why the SIL would expect that DD had come from such a devout family. The majority of families aren’t devout. In the UK only about 5% of people go to church once a week, and some of those are Christians in name only. Even in the US Christians are in a minority. It seems a strange thing to expect.

I don't think I am unsual in being a besotted gramdmother, and I find it strange that people on this thread seem to take such umbridge with this.

No one takes unbridgeable to you, or anyone, being a besotted grandmother, but I think people are taking issue with the fact that it’s SO CLEAR you choose your grandchildren, and any future/unborn grandchildren, over your actual children.

@whodafish I just saw you said that the DD may have given her DH the impression that her family was devout (which I don’t think was stated). That would explain why he expected it, but in that case, how horrible to get your brother excluded so that your husband would not find out that you lied.

It also seems a strange thing to lie about, given that it’s the social norm now to have sex outside marriage, and devout families are not that common.

I wonder if there is more to it.

Is a 2 hour round trip to begin rebuilding your relationship with an informal catch up not worth it then? If that's your attitude, I don't think anything will change. Nothing will change unless YOU change. You either suck it and get on with what's needs to done, or you continue to expect your son to do all the leg work and continue to fail.

For the record, it's umbrage. That aside, I find this whole story utterly absurd and unconvincing but if I took a word of it seriously I'd be firmly on Team Son + Partner. Whatever will you do, OP, if they dare to breed outside marriage? And if they don't produce grandchildren for your delectation, would you consider it worth the effort of getting to know her?

What is intriguing though is if he spends so much time with his girlfriends family, then surely she has expressed an interest in his and you. If he's met her parents, then surely she has asked to meet his and you. If this is a serious relationship as you seem to think, the burning question is what has he been telling his girlfriend about his family to dissuade her from meeting you.

Surely he only needs to have told them the truth? That’s more than bad enough to put her off meeting OP and the wider family - no stories needed!

Your DD sounds very entitled and high maintenance! Wow. It’s a normal part of life. What’s so difficult about explaining to a child that uncle’s last gf didn’t work out? You shouldn’t have let her be so domineering. Just invite him and the new gf round. Without the domineering sister maybe.