Husband wants more sex, I don’t, complains about it so much

[acrossit]

We Have two young kids (4 and 1) I’m overweight, woken multiple times in the night still, have two children demanding things every second of the day and I really I am starting to resent the bit of adult time I have to myself being taken over with husband wanting sex

That makes it sound like it’s all the time. It’s generally once a week. I don’t know if there are answers here, I can’t expect him to be celibate but equally I dread it.

"how women talk about it on threads like this. Aghast that the subject has even been raised. Using the worst language they can find to describe sex. Deliberate misunderstandings, ad-hominems and strawmen galore."

So women are aghast when an OP says she's being sexually coerced by her H? Sounds about right. Aghast means "filled with shock, horror, or amazement; struck with overwhelming surprise or FEAR".

Yes, women are horrified and afraid when they hear that a woman is being sexually coerced. And they are angry about it, because they want this shit, this sexual aggression, this relentless entitlement to another human's body, which is ALL AROUND US, to fucking STOP.

"Using the worst language they can find to describe sex."

That also sounds right. Women do this because that is what sex means to them in the context of sexual coercion: it is an ugly disgusting vile thing, a revolting physical invasion of a woman's unwilling body, a painful psychological injury to her mind, that is repeatedly forced on her. They are enraged that yet another woman is not FREE to say no, because then the self-obsessed H becomes mean and angry and punishing.

"Deliberate misunderstandings, ad-hominems and strawmen galore."

I haven't seen any deliberate misunderstandings here. I think the women here understand very very well what is being said - unlike the men, clearly - and have been very clear and straighforward in their responses.

Re the ad hominems, I think it's fair that there is pushback when a man prances on here mansplaining us with, "If the physical is lacking, we will reach a point of no return especially after communicating to no avail. I am just putting it straight to you and I know I may get hate for this." Yes, we're going to say things like:

"I can imagine your ex waved you merrily while muttering "asshole" under her breath."

"It's not hate, it's puzzlement, and a bit of pity, because you haven't worked it out yet. It's really not that hard."

"Anything less than really enthusiastic consent is not really consent, IMO, so a man who would want that is not a man I’d want anyway."

"I think it's hilarious that there are men out there thinking that they checked out and left a woman with no sex drive, and it was never to return again, ho hum, she was broken. I can assure you, wholeheartedly, that the problem isn't her "drive"."

Because first, this man still seems to be under the arrogant delusion - fed by the patriarchy - that he is Very Important, more important than his wife, and that therefore his wife will be desolate and heartbroken when he chooses grandly to divorce her in his last act of punishment. Yeah, we know a LOT of women who are actually really relieved in such situations. And second, this man's follow-up posts show such one-dimensionality and such a woeful lack of theory of mind and understanding of what makes a truly loving intimate relationship that we don't respect him.

You're also mansplaining us, btw. We understand everything you're saying, before you even said it, because we've lived it and heard it again and again and again. We are light years ahead of you in all this. If you want to understand women and have good intimate relations, you should stop talking, drop your reflexive male defensiveness and arrogance, and listen. Or rather, smoke your pipe on it, as you put it :)

Mind The Gap by Karen Gurney was the best, it talks a lot about low desire/differences in desire in women, and there’s also Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski x

Edited to add: just wanted to say for anyone considering reading these. They will only help if you’re in a relationship with a nice man who will work with you to create a low pressure environment and drop their ego (the first book actually has examples at the back of how to have conversations with your partner so they can see that changing things will benefit them). They assume you’re not in a relationship where you don’t want to have sex because your partner’s actually not very nice

Thank you @LouiseMadetheBestBroccoliPasta for articulating the points so clearly. I still don't understand why so many men feel the need to jump on this thread, in a predominantly women's forum, and mansplain about sex. I suppose the contributions do at least lay bare the uphill struggle many women have.

I think another thing that men don’t always get , especially in longer marriages is there can be resentments from over the years baked in , so you stay married for all kinds of sensible reasons including children and still caring about someone , but the sexual attraction just kind of dies a death, be that a previous affair, emotional or physical, sexting, unwanted and known about frequent porn use, putting you second, a whole host of things related to attraction. The expectation seems to be if you don’t split up at the time then that’s the end of the matter, and ‘normal service resumed’ - unfortunately for some of us ( including me) our brains don’t necessarily agree and whilst you are still there in spirit, sexually and romantically the candle has been kind of snuffed out - and sex of any kind suddenly becomes pretty unwanted .

Fantastic post. Written bluntly and truthfully. We are the ones getting something rammed into us, the same physical act as rape, and we don’t have the natural drive like men. It’s awful when it’s not wanted, and then when you add the sulking, comments, pressure on top.. it kills the feelings and love. It’s always amazing to me how much men will write on this subject

This was me for years - I hated it! Had to endure it to keep him happy. Pleased to say I am now divorced and free from the middle of night gropings!! Maybe you are tired with young children, but dreading it, (in my experience) is a big red flag. I thought I had to do it to keep him happy. But actually, I hated it, so I divorced him instead. I'm not suggesting you divorce him, I but I wish I had done it a lot sooner.

So you say without offering any explanation. It's interesting that you see the other marriage vows as a promise and obligation, but to have and to hold is can fly out of the window at the drop of a libido.

Because it involves access to another persons body that they don’t want.

men like you think that the primary purpose of marriage is to ensure guaranteed sex

so very very ugly

@letshearitfortheboy seems to be male

I'll ignore the second part of your post, which is just a puerile insult, and focus on the main point.

I'm not saying anybody is entitled to someone else's body. Or their labour, emotional support, money etc for that matter.

What I'm talking about is obligations. When you enter a marriage (with traditional Christian vows) you take upon yourself certain obligations, one of which is 'to have and to hold'. My question is why, then, do so many people not feel at all obligated by what they vowed? Is your word worthless?

Because to have and to hold does not include sex

you are - quite explicitly and clearly - stating that your view is that marriage imposes an obligation on women to have sex when they don’t want to

there is a word for that. I mean indeed that did used to be the social and legal expectation on women in the uk and is the case for many oppressed women now in other countries. Unfortunately for you in the UK women now have more power and that legally and socially is no longer the case.

what do you think it says about you that you would have sex with someone who didn’t want to, who got no enjoyment from it and indeed found it painful, because they’re are obliged to. It says nothing good I can tell you.

marriage is about far more than sex. and a man who puts his need to get off about all the other aspects of a marriage and possibly fatherhood is very much not a good man

Yeah my man wants sex all the time and it just feels like another chore at the end of the day. I love him and fancy the arse off him but as nice as an orgasm is I’m just not that arsed about it, sex always seems to be much more pleasurable for men! I’m 46 but i don’t think it’s my age, it’s always felt like a chore once in a relationship if it’s asked for at the wrong time. I would rather them stroke me and make me want it rather than just asking for it and expecting me to want it. But if he left me I would be devastated and rampant wanting sex all the time! I find making time for it on an afternoon (if possible) is best, then bed time is just for sleep just as I like it! Give that a try and ask him to spend time touching or stroking you first so you get in the mood.

Interesting interpretation of to have and to hold!

Yes. His view is more

"To have and to hold down"

I relate to every word @acrossit . Dreading the weekly ritual. Praying my period would come early or dh would feel sick or something. I'd say it was about once a monrh for a while, when kids were younger, sometimes two or three months. Things improved eventually but it took a period of better sleep before we even began to reconnect. Although I would happily have gone without for years, I did do it every now and then and I admit it was duty sex and sometimes was horrible, but sometimes started off half hearted and became enjoyable. Unlike many posters here I think its worth letting it happen every now and again even when you don't feel up to it for the sake of your relationship. But I also believe feeling supported as a parent and knowing he is doing his fair share are really crucial factors in keeping things together. The relationship needs to be worked on first before sex will follow.

For me stress was the enemy even more than tiredness. After kids were sleeping there were many years of a very stressful life that caused me to withdraw and dh to become short tempered, causing me to withdraw further. Communication stopped and I couldn't bear being intimate for a while, this was by far the most concerning time because we could no longer blame little people. Having date nights outside the house really helped, sometimes I'd preempt it and say that we weren't going to end the night in sex as that created more tension, he would be seeing the date as a precursor to sex, id be anxious because I'd know I had to either tolerate it or have a difficult discussion. We also eventually talked through our stressors, dh in particular dealt with his issues and when he became more relaxed a lot of my issues got better too. I suggested couples therapy but we haven't done it yet. Things have improved in the bedroom but I still struggle with low libido. Dh suggests it less now than before and always tells me I should never go along with it and to wait til I'm in the mood. Truthfully I am often indifferent, I never really long for it but I do enjoy it. I am late 40s now and can't see this changing much. But it's manageable for both of us, it's far from ideal but life is never perfect. We got away recently for a weekend and it resulted in spontaneous afternoon sex, so I feel there is hope for us yet.

Nothing kills a woman’s libido like being coerced into sex she doesn’t want.

Google it. The common understanding is to be intimate with your spouse.

How do you understand that phrase?

On a side note, I don't think the vows are that relevant, as my views are the same in any romantic relationship. When you agree to go exclusive, there's an implicit understanding that you'll actually be intimate with your partner.

Imagine if a woman (or man, but it's more often the woman) would tell her potential romantic partner: 'I wish for us to be exclusive. That means from now on you won't sleep with anyone, except with me a couple of times a year, and perhaps not even that.'

Does anyone think the relationship would actually start?

making women have sex when they don’t want to have sex is coercion/rape EVEN IF YOU ARE MARRIED

WOMEN DONT OWE YOU SEX EVEN IF THEY ARE MARRIED TO YOU

Are you thick or what? How many times do I need to say it?

I'm not 'making' anyone do anything. My question is what do you see your obligations as a spouse/partner in a romantic relationship?

Do you agree that you have an obligation to your partner to meet their emotional/financial/intimate needs? And if not, do think it cuts both ways, that your partner has no obligation to you?

If so, what exactly is a romantic relationship?

@Memely why would any woman start a relationship if by doing so she gave up the right to consent to her body being used for male orgasms?

I do not think that either partner has an obligation to have sex they don’t want in a relationship.

that is the very basic level of a respectful relationship

And an obligation means by very definition that you are requiring someone to do something because they are obliged to rather than they want to

maybe spend some time thinking about why your focus is on someone having to feel obliged to have sex with you - why do you think they don’t want to have sex with you? Suggest you focus on fixing that bit instead

That wasn't my question or my claim.

Do you have an obligation to meet your partner's needs - emotional/financial/intimate? Do they have an obligation to meet yours?

I didn't say that.

Google 'strawman'.

you have said being intimate means sex - you have said a partner has an obligation to be intimate - if have sex