Would a drop-off nanny make me a bad parent? Huge argument with wife

[ExhaustedFather]

One of the big advantages of my current job is that I get more flexibility than most, so I do all the school drop offs, and I can almost always attend all the school events, sports days, school plays, etc.

Unfortunately my job is at risk and there is the risk that I may be fired.
Many other jobs in my sector would have less flexibility.

I approached the matter with my wife.
I explained the possibility of ending up in a less flexible job.
I clarified that I would of course do all I can to retain flexibility and to continue doing the drop offs, but there's the chance I may be unable, in which case I would like to consider a childminder or nanny for the drop offs (breakfast club is full).

She went ballistic.
She started accusing me that I don't even want to try to ask for flexibility in a new job, that I'm a bad parent for even considering letting a stranger do the drop offs, that she's incredibly disappointed in me, that we have different priorities, that family is her priority but not mine, etc.

I was honestly left speechless.

I gave her numerous examples of people we know who took a very long time to find another job, or who use grandparents and childminders for the drop offs, and her only reply was: "but then why can such and such do it"

She then accused me that I am greedy because I don't want a lower-paying job with more flexibility, and that we could also live in a smaller house. (My income is multiple times hers)

I told her she was being unfair, offensive and out of touch.

She seems to think that, at the touch of a button, I could choose any job I want with any combination I want of pay and flexibility. It's not like that at all.

It doesn't help that she has chosen to delegate all things financial to me. No, I don't mind, yes she does a lot of other things, but this means she literally has no clue how much our mortgage is, how much we spend every month on groceries, how we much spent last year on holiday, when we have to renegotiate the mortgage and if it will be a higher or lower amount, etc.
No, I don't hide anything from her, it's all in a joint account she never checks.

My point is that she's not in the position to make informed comments on how much we spend, what we could cut back on, and what salary we would therefore need.

She seems to have this idealistic, out of touch idea that money is never important and that I can always find a job that lets me drop the kids off and pay the bills.

Am I such a bad parent for even considering a drop off nanny?
Should I have approached the matter differently?

@justasking111 of course my wife's employer has to pay into her pension. My point was about making ADDITIONAL pension contributions every year.

Once again, you jumped to conclusions without knowing the facts.

Once again, this attitude confirms your prejudices.

Stalking someone on line to find new ways to attack him. Congratulations.

Oh wow, OP, I know you're frustrated with responses but there was just so much arrogance oozing out of your last one. My original thought was that you were in stock broking. I know people don't last forever in that game as burnout is very real with such high pressure. I am sure you are very financially literate and that is probably why your wife has entrusted this part of your lives to you.
The problem here, I think, is that you and your wife currently have different priorities. You are thinking about maximising your gains at the moment because you recognise it's finite.
She's prioritising maximising family life as that is also finite.
You think that because she's not financially aware, her opinion, when it comes to financial sacrifices is naive.
You guys aren't fighting over morning drop-offs, it's your value systems. I think you think that if she only understood finances properly, she would adopt your value system but I can't agree that that is the case.
You came here to try to understand her stance, I'm hoping, not to validate yours so that you could have a proper productive discussion with her.

I actually reported you because I thought you were a goady troll, and mumsnet informed me that actually this is consistent with your posting history. So yeah, I had a look.
It's not an attack. Your wife wants a better balance. You've clearly been down this road before, if have any respect for her at all you need to have a proper conversation about job prospects and lifestyle. It just isn't' fair to unilaterally decide that lots of money is always most important thing when you have a family.

Sorry, when I said 'last one' I meant the one about financial literacy. Just want to be clear.

I wonder if she’s upset/annoyed because it sounds like she works a lot harder than you (full time plus commute plus more at home) and now you are trying to ‘outsource’ the one thing you do.

otherwise it doesn’t really make any sense.

@ExhaustedFather

so essentially, wrt the children you do the drop offs but might not, even, be able to do that going forward?

@justasking111 to be very clear.

You’re not wrong to hire someone to fill a gap, but you are totally wrong not to have the kind of relationship where you can talk about these things properly and where both partners are aware of finances. Why do men choose to settle with these women when there are so many out there who aren’t like that?

Deleted because repeat post

You're being defensive and argumentative, which btw is a very male trait.

The vast majority of women who come here and get a hammering rarely talk back - they try to listen, they really want help. By contrast, the vast majority of men who come here quickly start behaving like you - feeling sorry for themselves, getting stroppy and defensive, and resorting to infantile retorts such as PPs having sad pitiful lives.

This argumentativeness of men btw is probably the number one reason why women leave their Hs - they're not being listened to.

You have clearly implied that "Being accused of calling her ignorant (never done that!), of being financially illiterate etc???" It's the obvious takeaway from your posts - that you think she doesn't have the financial nous to dare to argue with you.

I suggest you go home, drop your defensive walls, and ask her why she got so angry. Anger is always secondary to fear - what is your wife afraid of? What is she worried about? Does she feel railroaded by you? Only by talking honestly and openly and RESPECTFULLY to her can you resolve this and find a solution that works well for the whole family.

@BoredZelda

"Why do men choose to settle with these women when there are so many out there who aren’t like that?"

the reverse is also true, is it not?

Imagine these women whose husband's sole task is to drop off their children, but then decides it's just too much.

🤣🤣🤣 how many millions in hard cash are you worth now. You're an employee whose value is declining. Set up your own company. Be your own master. The son you sneer at now juggles three companies. He's often stressed but never bored. He also does the school runs.

"Good To Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap... and Others Don't: Amazon.co.uk: Collins, Jim: 0201566620996: Books" https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0712676090?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

Here's some homework.

On financial literacy : no, I am not saying that I want her to have a PhD in mathematical finance or in tax law.

I am simply saying that, if she does not even know how much our mortgage is, approximately how much equity we may have in the house, what our outgoings are etc, then just saying "we can downsize" is not an informed comment.

FWIW I did look into what we could realistically buy with no mortgage or a minimal mortgage, and it would basically be in areas which then become too hard to commute from, for both of us. That's an informed comment.

Am I wrong? Did I miss a specific area? Fine, let's talk about that. But let's talk actual examples.

Maybe it's a male trait to be defensive and argumentative. This doesn't mean that not reacting when someone accuses you of falsehoods is a quality to applaud and to aspire to.

@justasking111 I didn't sneer at your son.
I know nothing about him and, unlike you, I don't jump to conclusions on matters I don't know.

I was sneering at the condescending attitude inferred from your comments, where you seem to imply that paying down the mortgage is always best (in fact, there are many scenarios where investing the money is much better) and that real estate investments are best (some real estate investments made a lot of money in the past, now it's a very different story, depends on many things).

Ah so you're investing excess funds in other things apart from ISAs and your wife's pension. Well that's excellent.

I think she's saying, "let's downsize" as a response to you implying you might have to become less available in family life. The subtext is, "I'd rather be poor than the life I'm living getting any worse"
You're saying that the life she's living probably would get worse in terms of travel etc. if you accepted a lower role. These are valid arguments that you should present to her.
By the sounds of it, she's not materialistic and just wants a nice, balanced family life. That's understandable. Go in to discussions with her, appreciating that this is her priority. Acknowledge the importance of it and she will probably be a lot more receptive to your opinions.

Wise words some people are happy with a simple life and security.

And to be clear, you don't need to be financially very savvy to recognise that a smaller house equals smaller mortgage and smaller household costs. That's just common sense.

Aha! This feels like we’re getting to the crux of the matter.

The paragraph starting “thank you for confirming…” confirms to me you are here to score some sort of random point with someone, somewhere OR get evidence of something.

@ExhaustedFather

"I am simply saying that, if she does not even know how much our mortgage is, approximately how much equity we may have in the house, what our outgoings are etc, then just saying "we can downsize" is not an informed comment"

Your wife seems to trust your financial acumen and yet you hold her in contempt for that?

She contributes fairly, does more with your children, your home, possibly holidays, in every other area of your lives together and yet you disparage the one aspect of her marriage that she thought she could rely upon, from you, oh! and dropping off the children.

Yer a 🤴.....not

Gosh, what an awful parent she is herself, by her own standards.

"Maybe it's a male trait to be defensive and argumentative. This doesn't mean that not reacting when someone accuses you of falsehoods is a quality to applaud and to aspire to."

You're STILL arguing! :)

And now you're so busy defending yourself from PPs (none of whom have said anything particularly mean or radical), you've lost track of why you came here.

I suspect that this behaviour is why your wife reacted so strongly. You're emotional, not as logical and rational as you think you are, and you don't realise it. There's nothing wrong with being emotional, but believing you're not means that you lack insight into your behaviours and have little emotional self-control.

Likely this makes your wife feel unsafe with you.

Fear is why your wife got angry. What is she afraid of, OP? Ask her that question.

My DH doesn’t know the ins and outs of our mortgage with the detail I do. Our brains work differently. I instinctively remember that info. I work with that info. I plan based on that info. My DH has to look things up, set reminders and follow advice. It doesn’t make him lesser. It just means our brains work differently.

DH is the higher earner. I make most of the financial decisions after conversations with him.

Just fucking talk to your wife and in a nicer way than you communicate here. Acknowledge her brain works differently. You’re supposed to be a team. You sound like you are her rival in a game she doesn’t know she’s playing.

Yes. This encapsulates what I’ve been trying and failing to say.

This is perfection.