DH messages from “Pick me!”

[Sus808]

Here I am, being that wife who finds messages on her husbands computer.

FFS, just finished typing and noticed how long this is, so sorry about that and I realise many can’t be arsed to read something this long!

Back story: DH used to work with this woman (single with a young kid), very good time girl, in there with all the men being one of the lads if you will, first one to suggest shots, “let’s all go to the casino/strip club”, full of ‘bants’… you get the picture. DH started to get mentionitis about her a lot, they’d talk a lot - this was pre covid so not as much Teams talk etc, but like catch up in the car on long journeys which centred around work but lots of lighthearted personal talk too (I know this because I was once in the car with him during one of these calls - she said on that call that he was being weird, which I assumed because I was in the car he wasn’t being as forthcoming with his chat as usual. I could feel around this time that he was basically having his head turned, but also felt she probably wouldn’t be physically attracted to him as she’s quite a lot more attractive than DH

Sorry realising this is getting long, but want to paint a full picture

She also came to our evening wedding reception and a lot of people mentioned to me how she was a bit handsy and flirtatious with DH (bearing in mind I’d said nothing about her to anyone). We then went to another wedding and she was there and sat out our table - she was OTT with all the men there, sitting on knees etc, getting drunk - I think at this point (maybe due to my comments and looks from others) DH realised what she was like and that she was like this with lots of men, not just him. She went up to her room with some random (much younger) man and I reckon DH was jealous of this as he got hammered and behaved very badly when we got back to the room.

They didn’t actually work together by this point but were still in the same industry. I told DH that the friendship/relationship with her made me uncomfortable and they stopped contact then. He hasn’t mentioned her and has been coy/awkward about her ever since. I saw a few years ago that she’d messaged him on Facebook messenger and he’d not replied. I’ve casually asked him a couple of times if he ever hears from her and he’s said no.

About two months ago DH and I were discussing a new phrase we’d heard: a “pick me” girl - I said that (let’s call her) Steph came to my mind straight away when I heard that phrase as she was the epitome of it. DH looked awkward and said nothing and that conversation ended.

Right finally we are up to today! DH went out and I needed to use the printer so went into his office to find his computer still logged on with all sorts opened on the screen. A WhatsApp message popped up on a group chat with his mates and it looked to be something pornographic so I scrolled through so see what kind of conversation they’d been having - turned out to be nothing but I noticed the contact beneath was Steph! Although named as Dave. I just recognised her picture. So I’ve scrolled through the messages and he’s been having regular contact with her since this time last year (that’s how far back the messages go) - now most of these messages are work related - they work in the same industry and have been discussing work related stuff in a very casual manner, asking about ex colleagues who have applied to work at their place etc, nothing flirtatious whatsoever. But they have been chatting at least fortnightly for a year and he’s not mentioned it. Also there’s “Are you at such and such conference today? Cool, I’ll come and find you there.”

I have looked her up on social media just now and she appears to be in a long term relationship with a woman, so looks like I’ve got nothing to worry about on that front (although I probably never did have anything to worry about regarding her interest in my DH), but obviously I’m pissed off that he’s been secretly in touch with this woman for so long and not said a word - because he knows I’ll be pissed off. The work chat looks innocent, but neither is it necessary - just like “Are you using X system? Is it any good” “John has applied for a job with us, what’s your opinion on him?” “Can you share my LinkedIn post? Cheers mate.”

I shouldn’t have snooped but I have. DH left computer logged on so isn’t being secretive, but Steph is saved as Dave and they’ve been chatting even this morning. DH is home now and is downstairs while I am upstairs. I keep going into the office hoping she’ll respond to his latest message (from this morning) so I can say I’ve seen her pop up, but she’s not done. What can I say to DH to get this conversation started without admitting that I’ve snooped? And what do I even want the outcome to be?!

I was just about to post suggesting that the way into the conversation is safeguarding your child from pornographic contact on devices he’s given passwords for, but clearly things have moved on- though from your update it sounds as though you will need to have that conversation.

Your husband has maintained astonishing levels of duplicity over several years. Making anybody a director of his company is not trivial, or easily forgotten. You are right to be angry.

I also didn’t tell him how I knew about the Steph/Dave thing - he did ask me at one point but I said I don’t owe him any explanations.

I know to outsiders it could be perceived that he’s been desperate to maintain contact with her in the hopes of recapturing whatever that was they had years ago, or because he’s hoping to start something romantic up with her. But I honestly don’t feel like that this time. The messages go back 3 years and whilst informal, none of them are like friendly banter and overstepping at all. If I read these messages between him and a different female I would have no issues with the content, and there probably are similar messages with women he has or does work with. I’m honestly not worried about that. Plus she’s asked him to several events and I can see that he’s declined them all. It does honestly look above board.

I don’t believe there is anything in it this time on either side, and neither of them say anything remotely suggestive or inappropriate in 3 years worth of messages. I don’t think she wants him and he doesn’t appear to have that kind of interest in her (currently anyway!)

But for me it’s all to do with the first time they were friends and the secrecy surrounding it all - that’s enough for me. I clearly can’t trust him as he’s proven himself to be untrustworthy.

To answer some questions:
There are 3 or 4 NEDs (none of them being me, I’m not in the same field as him at all and would be clueless)
@DuckbilledSplatterPuff He did say early in the contraction that he’d sack for off as NED and cut contact with her, but that doesn’t matter to me now as the damage is done.
Have we discussed watching porn? No but honestly I didn’t think that was a necessary conversation to be had - he claims to be so very busy all the time I don’t know when he’d do it (turns out when away with work), plus he has a daughter, which I don’t know, it just sickens me slightly that someone would watch women be raped and abused, and I obviously stupidly thought that having a daughter was enough for a man to realise how depraved it was (I know not everyone’s opinion is the same as mine)
I said “What’s all this filth on Twitter?” He was embarrassed but said “Porn. I watch it when I’m away with work.” I told him what I’ve said upthread about my feelings on that. Also pointed out that he lets our daughter use his phone occasionally, what if she had opened Twitter? She’d have been immediately been faced with porn as I was.

*conversation, not contraction

@Sus808 oh, was it that kind of porn? Definitely not a good thing to be browsing if your DD uses his phone! Very irresponsible.

In general, I think it is a thing that needs to be discussed, maybe not early in a relationship, but certainly before making any major commitments to one another, if it’s an issue that’s important to you.

It's early days op but what do you want to happen now? Is he to leave the house or talk it through with some apologies and boundaries? Or something else?

I don’t know what I want to happen now, but I don’t want to have to be civil towards him around our daughter as I’m too angry, so I’d rather he wasn’t here at all.
He has asked me the same question: what now? And I’ve not said “I don’t know” because I don’t want him thinking at this stage that all may be forgiven. So I’ve just said “What now? Now you fuck off out of my sight.” I can still see from the doorbell camera that he’s still here, plus he has come upstairs a few times with his bull shit, but I’ve just shut him down and said to leave me alone.

Also it’s pissing me off when he’s said “What can I do to fix this?” Too fucking late sunshine, the thing you did wrong has already been done. And why is it on me to come up with the answers?, he’s in the wrong, not me. I shouldn’t be desperately thinking of ways to fix his wrongdoings, this is all on him (plus I don’t have an answer, I don’t actually know what he could say or do at this stage)

I'm so sorry OP it's such a lot to take in.

Was he apologetic? Does he understand the damage in trust that he has caused here? It sounds like you had to drag everything out of him and he was only telling you the minimum he could get away with. Yes it sounds above board content wise but the secrecy and deception is extensive here.

Has she got some skills in the industry that are unique / so well placed that there’s no one else that would come close to her? Otherwise, there’s really no excuse for this behaviour.

He’d need to be doing everything in his power to repair trust here - taking accountability, couples counselling, sacking her off, transparency across all devices, stopping the porn etc. I think this will be hard to come back from. What a dickhead. Definitely ask him to leave and stay somewhere else for now.

I think you are right to let him think how he can fix this otherwise you go back to the beginning where he can say well I knew you'd be angry if you found out.

Sounds like you need some time and space to cool down, and to go to marriage counseling if you decide to stay together.

It is also a lot easier to feel angry than just hurt.

I hate when women are called controlling because they don't want their husbands to be in contact with a woman who was all over him at his own wedding! And who clearly had a crush on her.
And women wouldn't need to 'snoop' if their husbands weren't lying !

OP I can't see a way forward here. Lies are corrosive - you think you can get over something and move on but it he's fundamentally selfish and dishonest - that will come back and bite you at some point.
Id want him out tbh. He made her a director of his company ffs, knowing how you felt and why. That's unforgivable imo.

@Sus808 "I asked why would he think I’d be pissed off and he said because I didn’t like the way SHE behaved at the wedding in question and I’d told him to stop talking to her after that. I said no, it was the way HE behaved at the wedding and he knew fine well that was the reason: he had a tantrum because the girl he fancied slept with some random man. He pulled a face like that wasn’t what happened... He never at any point denied having his head turned by her and was adamant that nothing ever happened between them - I said I never actually thought that it had, but it felt very much like it could’ve done if she’d wanted it to. I said I thought that he had realised that night that he was nothing special to her as she was acting the way she was with lots of men there, and therefore realised that she was not worth causing problems in his marriage for. He neither confirmed or denied."

Him pulling a face seems disrespectful of you.

It also seems disrespectful that he doesn't answer your assertion that he had been jealous about another woman, on your wedding night no less, to the point he smashed things in the hotel room. At best one could think that he doesn't want to talk about it because he's embarrassed about his behavior and at being caught out fancying another woman at his OWN WEDDING. But that's proritising his feelings over yours. I imagine it was very hurtful for you to realise that he had the hots for someone else, and probably also shocking that he went on a jealousy-fuelled destructive rampage on your wedding night because of those feelings.

Did he ever sincerely apologise for his behaviour?

Also important, did he ever admit that his behaviour was motivated by an entirely inappropriate lust for another woman? Because he has to admit that - including to himself - to actually understand what he did that night. He hurt you, and he caused you to start distrusting him. His behaviour that night put a crack into the new marriage, and his duplicitous behaviour with Tesco Dave has just made that crack into a giant rent that could split the marriage in half.

If he doesn't understand what he did, he can't fix it. He has to admit to you what he did, without justifications or defensiveness.

"Turns out what he actually meant by that is that they’ve been in contact constantly over those last 3 years. Why didn’t he tell me? Because he knew I wouldn’t like it. Why do it then?! Of course “I don’t know.”"

If he doesn't know, he's going to do something like this again.

I think MC is in order.

Jesus, Op you must be absolutely reeling.
Take a moment to catch your breath and get your head straight before diving into any big conversations or decisions. Tell him to pack his stuff and give you some space for a few days — you need space to deal with this.
And if there’s any hope of moving forward, he needs to be all in on total honesty and transparency.
I hope he’s fucking hanging his head in shame.

You must be feeling your whole history with your H has been a lie, she has been a big part of your life together, although you never knew it. I wouldn’t be able to get past that, it would make me question everything and taint my memories. He is not a strong, loyal and trustworthy man.

OP, if you are absolutely satisfied he is being truthful that nothing has happened between them then the issue is him maintaining contact knowing you wouldn't like it and making her NED of his company, bizarrely I have to say. He definitely likes her, but in what way? Knows he can't have her? Might be able able have her? Is she some sort of fantasy for him? Could have her if he wanted? Iyswim

Deceit is awful. I hope you can find your way through this. Like others, I hope counselling, separately and together is on the table.

You’ve handled this amazingly.
Some men are so bloody stupid.
They tell themselves that ‘they haven’t lied’ if they just haven’t told you something. No. Omissions are lies. By deliberately hiding something. A NED is no small thing ffs.
I’ll get flamed maybe (blaming her not him…) but it sounds like she’s doing all the running and he’s enjoying the attention so doesn’t want it to stop. But also doesn’t seem to have crossed a line. That doesn’t absolve him by the way. But it sounds like she’s doing the chasing.so ‘pick me’ was an accurate description! Sad woman.
I would wait and see how you feel
in a while. Give it time. But as a minimum, little miss formula one needs to be cut off and you need to see proof he’s done it.

He wants her, he's wanted her for a long time. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't at least a ONS between them. I don't think he will ever cut her off.

I disagree. If he’d wanted her he wouldn’t down the invites to the ‘cool sporting events’ (also a classic pick me trait)

I'm with you on that one. Whatever it was int he beginning, probably the attention, it's waned big time. She still wants him hanging around for his attention but it doesn't sound like much other than they are now useful to each other career wise.

It doesn't diminsh his lies to OP but I think she is right when OP says nothing has happened and OP knows him way better than we do.

I think you’re massively overreacting and I think you know that too. You don’t even know what you want to do or how to fix it because you know he didn’t actually do anything wrong. He has a work colleague you don’t like. Shock horror. He hid it from you because you would behave hysterically as you are now.

geez. Pop an xanax and have a bath or something.

‘Massively overacting?’
Neh.

How patronising and unkind of you! He has lied to her for years. He’s behaved in ways that show he’s had feelings for this other woman on some level and has continued to disregard his wife’s feelings in this, for years! If it was so innocent, surely he would have no need to be deceitful.
She hasn’t overreacted. She’s been lied to and is hurting.

Maybe my standards are just higher than yours @AboogaBooga

I can well understand your sadness and disappointment in him OP.

The appalling behaviour at the wedding, pure jealousy was a massive red flag.

Take your time. Don't rush into anything at all.
I think it will reveal itself to you.

Perhaps you can move on from this, perhaps marriage counselling can help.

Whatever you decide, something has been lost by his sneaky dishonest behaviour.

Perhaps see someone yourself too.
I think it is unlikely you will ever hold him in high regard again, but that's not to say you can't move forward if you want.

He sounds like an awful weasel to be honest, but some men are just like that.

Mind yourself.