Your advice needed - split up or not

[CatWithAGreenHat]

Hi fellow mumsnetters, i could do with a bit of your insight and advice.

I’ve been with this man for about 10months now amd situation arose (again) which makes me question whether this is right for me. I will write down some facts that i think are relevant as objectively as i can and without passing my own judgement.

We are both divorced, i’m on friendly terms with my ex and we coparent and rub along allright. All i would expect from amicable divorce. My partner, he had a difficult divorce, she is a narcissist and gaslighted him etc etc. 3 kids, he sees 2 but not the eldest (complex situation i won’t go into at this point).

He is calm, analytical and we fit well in many ways. Similar world views, interests, financial attitudes and expectations from a relationship. We both are both after long term stable relationship and it’s going well, most of the time.

Thing is, over time i have noticed he can be very inflexible when it comes to me raising concerns about quite often something quite minor in his behavious that upsets me. He says he has no issue apologising if he’s done something wrong but to me it feels like that rarely happens. A lot of the times minor things escalate into bigger issues, i feel this is because instead of just saying ‘sorry, i see i upset you’, he starts analysing situation and proving thay there is no reason for me to be upset. So simple things that would be resolved with quick ‘sorry’ escalate into prolonged texts or emails where i feel like i have to prove why i got upset about particular issue.

We don’t argue as such. There is no shouting. We talk in texts or emails. That is a positive because in my marriage i was used to blazing shouty rows so this feels so much more level headed and calm. Still, im starting to feel that his reluctance to apologise is starting to really grate on me. He says because of his marriage, he will not apologise if he doesn’t feel he’s done something wrong. I can understand that. But i can’t help but start feeling resentful and unheard.

We are currently in one of the ‘arguments’ and we still send texts to each other signing out with xx and say ‘love you’ at the end of the day.

I am meant to see him on friday and have been thinking about this a lot. I feel like i cannot get upset ever because that will get invalidated when all i want is a quick sorry and us moving on from the situation. He seems to be incapable of doing that.

I am starting to wonder if this is right for me, in fact im starting to wonder if it is always me raising things needlessly. He thinks it is. But then part of me feels like this is not normal and it’s eroding something in me even though we have a lot of good things going.

Any advice? Thanks if you got to the end of this.

He never does anything wrong. Apparently. According to him.

Mmm, I was going to ask for examples. Your example isn't great though. I mean, a whole back and forth seems ridiculous. But at the same time, you were being unreasonable to expect him to APOLOGISE for not sending you an I love you message.

Having said that, this sounds like a man who always has to be right. his older child doesn't want to see him and while sure, parental alienation could be a thing, I have my doubts. What has he done to try and overcome this?!

He sounds very much like a narcisist to me. Probably a covert narcissist. Key is that he doesn't take responsibility and likes to play the victim. what does he do/say/think that means you have to change your behaviour/tone/language/activities because otherwise he is triggered by his supposedly narcissistic/abusive ex wife?

Also, it shoudln'e be this hard. You shjouldnt be in long debates about how you feel and what your view is vs his view this early on.

Also, to add, a man who won't apologse or take responsibility is not surprisingly going to have a difficult relationship with his children, particularly older ones. we all make mistakes and part of being a parent is acknowledging that and being understanding our children's feelings/emotions/immaturity.....

I’d be very wary OP. The parental alienation thing could actually be the oldest child seeing what really went on, you only have his version.

Saying sorry isn’t about agreeing you’re in the wrong, it’s about acknowledging the impact your actions had on someone, and if he can’t grasp that he’s not going to be able to build a good relationship. Although your example does make you sound very hard work.

Yes this.

Set alongside He says because of his marriage, he will not apologise if he doesn’t feel he’s done something wrong you get a situation where he is using an excuse ("my awful marriage that i cannot be mature enough to get past") to basically browneat you into never expecting an apology or even expressing a wish about what you would like from him.

Can you give more examples because so far the only example you've given is a bit tricksy?

He literally said, have i noticed that 100% of these things since we met have been started by me?
I have to admit, there were things he could have taken offense at things i’ve said over time but he never did. I have apologised multiple times over time because that just comes naturally and i have no issue with doing that.

He admits himself he is confrontation averse. This is why it’s so confusing. He doesn’t get offended so perhaps doesn’t get it.

10 months in? No mutual kids? Dump him. If there's doubt, there's no doubt.

browbeat! Not browneat!! 🤦

Have you got any other examples? I don't really understand how the love you text caused such a discussion...

Me neither. I guess i can be sensitive at times. Im not perfect, 100%.

I am perplexed at ridiculousness of it myself, because it is such a non issue. I’d probably say other issues are of similar nature, me taking slight offence at something but instead of quick clearing of the air, we go through logical dance.

it’s baffling and i can’t work out whether im the issue here or there is something on his side. Quick sorry and it’s all done and dusted, forgotten.

And i have communicated my needs on a number of occassions, telling him at length how i just want to feel heard and feel that ge cares. I don’t get why it is so difficult to understand.

Honestly does it matter who is at fault, and who isn't. It doesn't sound like it is working. Surely that is all you need to know? 10 months in it should not be this difficult.

Throw him back is my opinion. It must be lovely never being in the wrong but statistically that's rather unlikely. This phase should be the honeymoon phase and it seems like too much hassle already to me

He’s the narcissists

In the 10 months has ever apologised for anything? If the answer is no, then it's probably that his real default setting is to never apologise for anything.

I couldn't be doing with all this. You're supposed to feel happier with a boyfriend, not unheard and like you have to prove why you got upset.

I'm very suspicious about his relationship with his family, too.

He has apologised but he is definitely not one to offer it easily.

We get on lovely apart from this. That’s why im confused. Is it really that stupid to mention minor things that make me sad?

He also said on numerous occassions that he wants us both to raise things and tbh we had some good talks about various things without arguing which is refreshing to me. Those talks were after i was unreasonable a few times (e.g. after one too many i told him some not very nice things) and i of course have apologised as i was totally in the wrong.

Well it could come across as needy or nitpicking.
More examples needed. The ‘I love you’ text thing sounds like an absolute non event and I’d have been irritated by you bringing it up tbh

"I will always apologise when I am wrong.

However, I am never wrong and here are all the ways in which YOU are wrong..."

@MattCauthon
Mmm, I was going to ask for examples. Your example isn't great though. I mean, a whole back and forth seems ridiculous. But at the same time, you were being unreasonable to expect him to APOLOGISE for not sending you an I love you message

I agree, I’d be annoyed if you expected me to apologise for that and even more annoyed if you were mad at me for not apologising.

Do you have any other examples?

The email and long messages between you both sound tiresome. You don’t sound well matched. I really dislike people hashing out things like this. I couldn’t be bothered.

You probably need to either split or accept that he doesn’t apologise as much as you like. The worst option would be to stay with him but expect him to change. It won’t happen. You can chose what you want to do.

Fair enough, i totally see your point

This is very interesting. What form of words are the young people encouraged to use while repairing the relationship?
I have a huge problem with fake apologies. If someone means well but doesnt think they did anything wrong I would rather they say something else than apologise. We can agree to differ on that basis. But debasing the apology itself to mean “I value this relationship and I hope we can get on” is a big problem for me. I want “I’m sorry, I apologise” to mean “I did something wrong, and I get it”.

if this is current thought then it explains a lot. So much bullshit in the world right now. I get that sales people and politicians need bullshit but I object to words themselves in use by normal people losing meaning.

To be honest I wouldn't apologise just to keep the peace, I would have to feel as though I was wrong in order to apologise.
I would explain why I thought I was not wrong and hope my partner accepted my explination.
I would feel I was being put on the spot all the time, when the 'accuser' kept coming at me for perceived slights,
ie.I would expect-

-You didn't say you loved meeeee
-Oh that's because I was in a meeting and didn't see your message
oh OK .

Not
-You didn't say you loved meeeee
-Oh that's because I was in a meeting and didn't see your message
-You must apologise !

I agree with this.

I tell my kids don't apologize if you're not truly sorry. Fake apologies are awful. A real apology means ' I realize I was wrong and I regret what I did, I won't do it again'.

Op sorry I wouldn't appreciate being told I have to apologize purely to keep the peace. Certainly wouldn't apologize if I didn't think I was in the wrong. And I'd find it infuriating if you got annoyed with me for this... you'd prefer I lie?!

Consequently I rarely apologize. But when I do apologize I really really mean it.